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Piracy. Theft or not?

Reply #200
As far as the "try before you buy" rationale. If it's possible to try before you buy, people will do it. Test driving cars, buying clothes then returning them, taking a couple of swings with a baseball bat ... The problem is that most digital music has no natural limitation like the above options. That makes it difficult for the music releaser to control what happens to it.

That was the whole idea behind Divx.  You "buy" the disk for less than a regular DVD, but only got 1 day's
use before it expired.  Further views were charged to your account.  It was soundly rejected by the public
and went bust.  One reason was the agenda of "pay per view"  and the user could not own any permanent
use rights.  Beware studios that still want this for both movies and music.

Piracy. Theft or not?

Reply #201

none. both are breaking copyright laws. both are giving you music archived without costing a penny. the only difference is one is more convient than the other. technology used to work for the music association, now it works against it. the music industry has made hordes of money from it, in fact to a point of greed(20 bucks a cd? come on). and with thier previliged life style it makes this even more clear. maybe this is some kind of punishment to them for it. who knows. but i know one thing.....they are not going to starve from music being downloaded. they just might not get the mansions, limos, and private jets.

If someone buys a CD it becomes thier property, they can do with it as they please because they bought it and it is thiers. If they choose to put it on the internet and someone else comes and downlaods it, it is not stealing because the person who downloaded it had the permission to download it from the owner of that cd. Now, it maybe breaking a copyright law, but that is not stealing.

And I think it is ridiculous that it has gotten to such an extreme that you can't even talk about it(links for software,ect.) on forums with the threat of law suits. That is a right to free speech....but, oh well....

The only country really makeing a big fuss over this(in my opinion) is America. Why? Because the Amercian government is so influenced by Corporations and organizations(RIAA) that have lots of money. I have read where the RIAA has donated seriouse money to every congress man. Go figure...

Cowon Iaudio X5 30 gig. It rocks!

Piracy. Theft or not?

Reply #202
if we all pay a tax on DAT machines and CD-rs, to compensate for loss sales, then we are paying for things we "might do", such as theft.
why do i pay a tax on CD-r's, when all my cd-rs are used for photos and data.
if I walk past a movie theater and am forced to pay for a ticket to the theater, i expect then, to see the movie.
so if i pay a tax on hardware and medium, then what can be expected.

and where does the taxs go per CD i buy? to the artist i bought a cd from, or from the billboards top 40 artists? - incase of lost sales.
why should a cd i buy from artist X go to a top performer, which i never listened to.

Piracy, yea there is alot of that going on, from the record companies themselves.
i see people dont like others that do as they do.
a pirates worse enemy is another pirate.
blame someone else before they blame us.
but really, i can very easily record the FREE music from radio stations, who dont pay for the music anyway.
the thing is they THINK mp3 is CD quality, yet if ya ever downloaded music off napster. it sounds like 7 year olds ripped it and then upp'd the volume past +10.

when they came out with the record players, they thought, how do i sell these? well we need something to make people want to buy these machines. so they set out to make a product someone wanted.
and then ya got the likes of Sony, RCA. who made hardware, before doing the record labels.
even funny today, ya got Sony Records fighting the Piracy, while Sony the other side, is dishing out cool mp3 players anbd computers designed for ripping music.
both sides of the coin there.
who do you believe? Sony Records or Sony hardware? your a pirate, be a pirate?
dont steal this,
then Please use this to steal this.

If the record companies want to stop Piracy. they need to give something. such as CD-E's, with music videos, which I got many of them.
hows about some nice J-cards, inlays, extra info. or more then 7 songs per CD.
and by saying record sales were down this year, so it must be all them pirates. doesnt hold water.
every industry has slumps. and or poor sales.

i think. they should give all the songs for free. but concentrate on concert sales.
by exposing more people to the sounds of the acts your peddling. ya can increase listening base.
concerts and t-shirts and whatever other things they peddle for an act.
how many CD's do they give to radio stations for air play?
how many of them do you own? with the words stamped across it
"Promotional Use only!" I got a ton of them on LPs. i picked up at record stores.
how many of these artist get their share of the money? i heard of many many bands that made Album after album, tours after tours, for years. with NO paydirt insight.
where did that money go? who ripped off who? the record company ripped off the artists who created the music, hence the cash revenue for the companies. only then to turn at the people and say, with the sale of the  blank cassette tape, our business is in jeopardy.
guess what, it survived. what about the recordable Reel to Reel. did it kill off the Industry, nope.
or the DCC or DAT, nope and nope again.
its funny i can buy a DVD movie, cheaper then a new Release CD.
and a movie would cost alot more to make then most records cost. and how much does it cost to make average records? i heard alot of bands do it all on a RDAT or ADAT. for a couple thousand.
If i can buy blank CDs for less the 50 cents a piece. how much does the Industry pay to press them? a penny per 10? then charge me $25 per CD.
whos pirating who?
DIY artists, are they bitching as loudly? prolly not. since they charge resonible prices for their music, and their concerts arent much more then the price of a CD.
people pay to see em, for the music, whats their secret?

to me, piracy is some guy, making copies from 1 he bought, pressing out the CD's, printing the inlay cards, shrink warpping em, and selling hundreds at a time for profit.
how many people download tunes and sell them for a profit?

make the tunes free, make money via the commericals, stinkin movies we got to watch with the latest super rock star in it, which is insulting, and all the t-shirts and books and guest apperances they make. and over priced concerts.
problem solved. everyone happy. we got all the music we can stomach. and we pay to see the acts in concerts. buy their overpriced hooded-sweats. see them in movies. and stop taxing us. if ya want people NOT to steal music. your just saying we expect it. so tax em.
if ya tax people for something, then when they do that something you are receiving a buck from, you should have no complaints, ya got your buck.
and if you stamp out piracy. then that tax must be removed.
so ya lose money there. and then your looking for some other way to steal money from people.
maybe? they should pay their artists a salary, fixed amount.
and if they dont make the record company money, fire em, just like in any other real job.
cap their salary.
i think musicians in the millionaire brackets make alot of money,even with the lose due to piracy. they arent eating from the local dumpsters.
cap their salary, cap the record comp execs.
stamp out drugs and all that and make a more productive business, we the people want more music, not 7 songs per artist, per year.
well. i dont think this was about that, well yea, Piracy is theft.
but just as the word SPEEDING can be defined by differnt cases, so can piracy.
piracy is not a blanket word which covers the guy selling 50,000 units to the guy making a copy for his jambox.
depends on the booty i guess. and the ship ya used to capture the booty.

laws are vague, an laws dont make something right or wrong. just cause its a law. laws where made by people with an opinion. as i have an opinion on this subject. and someone else has.
most laws are extremely, grossly screwed up. thats why we, the people. have Jury Nullification.

if all the airwaves played songs for everyone, not just those who like bebop tunes. we all could find stuff we like. is it fair those who like that sort of music, can listen to tunes for free. while others who like music that never smells the air, cant even listen to a single jam from a band.
so tape trading was created. and lots of bands liked that idea.
now we got instant access, the labels hate it. why? management cant see the big picture.
more exposure creates more fans.
file sharing is "the tape trading of the past".
piracy is a word inflicted on the people via money misers and penny pinchers who dont care about music, only the cash revenue they MIGHT have made.
tell them something.
to say ya lost money from piracy, is insane, how do you lose money ya never had? never seen a receipt for.
to assume that someone with your artists song, would have bought the cd, had it not been for p2p. is nuts.
most people never heard of a band, therefore couldnt have bought the cd in the first place. so there was never a sell to begin with.
but now that they heard the artis, they might buy the cd. even if they dont buy, its not a sell lost. since without p2p, they would never heard the artist. ofocurse that goes without saying, about the acts the people did hear of. but those acts have their music everywhere else available for free - radio, tv. so is it really a lost sell? or just more free promotion.
whats better than free promotion of your product than free promotion.
stop stuffin songs on tv and radio. just let people have the songs.
but alot of artist never heard of now can be heard, while those acts that are heard will still be heard.
"piracy" probably creates more sells then not.
think Pirates. a pirate hid a treasure on an island, now how many boats and ships were sold by people wanting to find the pirated loot?
so the act of piracy created more boat sells by people wanting to find a pirated booty.

so the question of this topic is, is Piracy theft or not.
it is theft, but is it wrong or right?
by law it is wrong. but does it actually hurt the industry overall.
if you believe the industry they say yes'm, since they are counting in their imaginary sales. dem ghost dollars.
but NEW money has been made by offering CD burners, cd-rs, mp3 players, software, updates, jobs, web sites, servers, gracenotes, mini-cds, cassette records, dvd recorders, encryption, copy protection, more jobs to people to "investigate the loss of revenue", portable players, news articles.... goes on and on.
they are scared tehy might have to offer the peope something for their money.
if people dont like all the tactics of the MPAA and RIAA, they can fight back, all they have to do is STOP BUYING MUSIC on format, stop going to concerts. let your voice be heard via your wallet.
if the record industry cant make money due to their opinions on things, then someone who is willing to give the people want they want, will then take over. as in the case with RCA and SONY way back in the day.
I like purchased CD's with art on it, plus they can take more scratches and abuse then a CDr of music. i wont stop buying, just casue their is a few freebies out their, I will actually buy more, since I got exposed to many more bands this way.
follow the demand.
and its funny how they can accuse the very same people who for years, and year and years fed their fat wallets buying tapes and cd and lps.
and then now the people got a few knocks in, they cry foul.
just think if for 1 month, no one bought any music or movies or went to a concert or a movie. that might make them wake up and change their squabblings.
i think its free promotion, not piracy.
thats my opinion, nothing more nothing less.
you got a right to agree or disagree.

Piracy. Theft or not?

Reply #203
people are people and will always be. they steal, they lie, they cheat, they betray, they will always be this way. i think people need to start to truely realize. come to think of it, the people who are most worried about this "piracy" are the ones with all the money...hmmm who is really being looted here.      i dont know, just some random thoughts..

Piracy. Theft or not?

Reply #204
Dellin, welcome to HA. You will find very useful info and interesting discussion all over the place.

Not to mess with you (I love beer!) but the staff kindly asked something from us before you arrived. So far we are trying to comply, so maybe you could follow suit.

Read this: HA Staff's kind request

Happy encoding!
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Piracy. Theft or not?

Reply #205
and where does the taxs go per CD i buy? to the artist i bought a cd from, or from the billboards top 40 artists? - incase of lost sales.

Every Music CDR since the AHRA was enacted has a hidden tax built into the price! (2% of the manufacturers sales) This is supposedly to pay the artists for home recording. Who Collects the Tax? The RIAA under the auspices of the AARC. Who shares office space with the RIAA and has many of the RIAA employees working for it. I haven't been able to find one artist that was paid a cent of the money.  4% is set aside for non-featured artists, of the remainder 40% for the featured artist and 60% for the labels. To date  I have not found one artist who has received one cent of this money.

And we're... the ones, that are STEALING!    My god man! 

I think it's the problem with music being a product. I can have 5 people enjoy music playing it on my boombox, yet only one person can enjoy having the gatorade I get in the vending machine. If they all steal one outta it by kicking it and getting some for free, that's stealing, but would someone other than the original buyer of the CD be 'stealing' if I'm at a party with it and 20 other people hear it? Multimedia just can't be a product, and wasn't truly meant to be. Even suppose it couldn't be duplicated, it could still be enjoyed by many more than who bought the original CD on a regular basis.

Piracy. Theft or not?

Reply #206
Every Music CDR since the AHRA was enacted has a hidden tax built into the price!

Note that this statement refers to "Music CDR". Music CDRs are specifically designed to work in stand-alone hifi cd recorders (although, they will also work in a CDRW drive). In the US, normal data CDRs that you use in your computer's CDRW drive (which will not work in a stand-alone cdr recorder) do not have this tax.



Piracy. Theft or not?

Reply #207
Note that this statement refers to "Music CDR". Music CDRs are specifically designed to work in stand-alone hifi cd recorders (although, they will also work in a CDRW drive). In the US, normal data CDRs that you use in your computer's CDRW drive (which will not work in a stand-alone cdr recorder) do not have this tax.

Well thas is some incredible marketing buzzword only a high paid executive could make think of it...

If you read a little about the history of CDR, namely the Orange Book II format, you would already know this. Well, there really is no diference! If a burned CDR does not play in a player, either the player is bad, or the disc does not conform to the standard. Thats it.

If you also read the specs, you will know that the reference is the "Cyanine" (Gold with green bottom) Taiyo Yuden discs (yes, specifically TY). It was the first and only manufacturer at the time, and it is the reference, all CDR drives had to work with those, and all blank media disc manufacturers that wished to enter the market had to make media that would work with these drives.

Then the market pushed the price race, and many more "brands" appeared, some experimenting with cheaper materials, which could also allow higher speeds. But, the new materials were of lower quality (data discs can tolerate more errors). Also, these new materials that allowed higher speeds also happened to do poorly at the original 1x speed. Of course, everyone were supposed to not use 1x burners anymore...

Then they came, the "stand alone audio burners" which, not suprisingly, only burn at 1x. So... where can we find again the TY gold discs? Oops... They "invented" "Audio CDR media" (Which is a rip off) Media tested (again) to work more closely to the original Orange Book II specs, namely, capable of burning at 1x. It is no coincidence that many of the so called "audio discs" are simply TY Golds (in the best of cases, of course).

I am not sure if they also added some "pre recorded" part to the "Audio media" for the unit to check or refuse to write in order to actually enforce the existense of this mythical format. I think i read somewhere about defeating such nonsense in the few stand alone CDR "audio" burners that comply with it.

Ah yes, i remembered, the stand alone "audio" CDR units are supposed to check for this "pre recorded" area and refuse to use those discs as a source..., hmph. RIAA as always wanting to control what you do.

For completeness, the original Orange Book I was a magneto optic disc with caddy (picture a DVD-RAM disc) that could store a full CD, and the drive could also read normal CDs. In the beginning, it was the only way to master, and was very expensive. Orange Book II requires that the discs are readable in all existing players. Orange Book III (CDRW) does not, and that is why your drive has to specifically support CDRW to read it.

As a side note, the original DVD does not require support for reading CDR discs, only pressed (alluminium?) is required by the specs. It seems that the red laser won't normally read CDR discs, so provide your unit to either switch to the bigger wave lenght or have a second laser if you wished to give support for CDR. Well most DVD units will support CDR, thankfully, but it was because the manufacturer wanted to.

There is also a strange side effect, in that DVD drives could always read CDRW discs, as they look to the red laser kinda like dual layered DVDs
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