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Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #25
Quote
Originally posted by qristus




So he's just saying he agrees with what you're saying...

[span style='font-size:9']qristus, grammar fairy[/span]


darn. just my bad english.
darn so many times i have misunderstand this simple sentence.

just to tell the writer i have had in my hands

Plextor 8x SCSI (good at the time)
Plextor 12x (good at the time)
Plextro 16x (good at the time)
Plextor 24 (sucsks*)
Plextor 40x(sucks*)
Richo 20x (ok)
Liteon 12x (sucks*)
Liteon 16x (sucks*)
liteon 24 (Perfect
Liteon32 (perfetct just faster)
Liteon 40 ( perfect jsut faster again)
Aopen 16 (suck*)
Aopen 24 (suck*)


*from a tecnoicla point oof view .. this is NOT to states that they are making coaster. juzt the have some limitations in advanced features... at there time being
Sven Bent - Denmark

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #26
what about Teac drives?  I have read that they read with the best accuracy & write very well.  From what all i have seen with lite-on drives you can wind up with a dud more easily than other companies, but if you get a good one you are golden.  From what i have seen, i would say buy in this order for Reading & Writing Audio & Stability.  (I don't know anything about backing up games, etc....)    :naughty:


1.  Teac & Lite-On
2.  Yamaha
3.  Plextor  (newer drives)  (40x ultraplex rocks for reading cds)

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #27
I noticed that article didn't even mention CMC Magnetics as a disc manufacturer, wonder why?  Too cheap?

P.S... AOpen are supposed to make decent CD-RW burners too, dunno tho.  They're made in Taiwan, like most of the others.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #28
Nobody mentioned LG writers so far, what's wrong with them?
I really want to buy a new writer, that can also read DVD. Because i already have 2 Plextor drives in my system (SCSI PX-412C and PX-32ts) already, i need a combo drive!

I'm interested in the LG GCC-4120B (12x8x32 CD-RW Drive with 8x DVD-ROM Reading Capability) for just around 100€, it doesn't have to read Audio perfectly (Hey, got Plextor drives that i will still use for that, even if i get e new drive)

Thanks in advance, if somebody would answer my question(s)!
Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one! (Benjamin Franklin)

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #29
Quote
Originally posted by quellcore
Nobody mentioned LG writers so far, what's wrong with them?


Yeah, even I forgot to mention about LG writers, another on my list of good (and economical!) drives. Another brand thats even lesser priced (in fact the least priced of all writers I have checked till now) is Acer.

Quote
Originally posted by fewtch
I noticed that article didn't even mention CMC Magnetics as a disc manufacturer, wonder why? Too cheap [/b]


Well CMC magnetics have a pretty bad name in the market for being highly incompatible across different writers. Even though you can burn em' the quality is supposedly bad - Imation is a common brand that uses CMC magnetics.
There are only 10 types of people on this earth - those who know binary and those who don't.

Dell Inspiron 5100
P4 2.4 533 FSB,
512 MB / 40 GB,
Windows XP Home

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #30
Quote
Originally posted by experttech
Well CMC magnetics have a pretty bad name in the market for being highly incompatible across different writers. Even though you can burn em' the quality is supposedly bad - Imation is a common brand that uses CMC magnetics.

I still wonder if it's modern (read: fast) CD-writers that have the problem.  I had no problem with a big spindle of Imation (CMC Magnetics) discs with the aforementioned Aopen 6x4x24 drive, not a single coaster, not even a single bad sector.  CD burners have become totally "commoditized" and I don't think any care or attention is put into them anymore (even by Plextor).  In fact, they're cheaper than regular old CD-ROM drives were just 5 years ago.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #31
Quote
Originally posted by quellcore
Nobody mentioned LG writers so far, what's wrong with them?


I own an LG 24x10x40x GCE-8240B and it has performed flawlessly since I recieved it about 5 months ago. I can burn 99 minute cd-r's to about 99:00 without errors, and it has a huge 8MB buffer and seamless-link technology to prevent buffer underuns. DAE is also very good, with no errors, and I usually start at 18.9x at the inside of the disc and hit 40-44x at the end of a long audio disc (in burst mode, of course).

The only downside is that the drive has a chip that "tests" the dye on the CD-R media before burning and chooses a speed based on the calculations to burn a disc with the least amount of errors. Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way when I bought a 100-disc spindle of cheapo CD-R's from Wal-Mart (for $17!) to make CD's for my new car. They are of course manufactured by none other than CMC Magnetics co. (they are branded "Durabrand") and will not burn faster than the slowest speed my burner allows, or 8x, though they are rated for 24x. Yet some CD-R's that say 16x will burn at 24x (such as my 99-minute blanks from the internet). Keep that in mind when choosing a burner. For me, it is an unecessary inconvienence. When I am burning something important, I usually burn at 8x w/ higher quality media anyway. But if I just need some tunes to pop in the car, I don't care if the CD has xxx amount of write errors, or if it will only last 5 years, so long as it plays when I pop it in the deck.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #32
Quote
Originally posted by Cygnus X1

the drive has a chip that "tests" the dye on the CD-R media before burning and chooses a speed based on the calculations to burn a disc with the least amount of errors. 


This sounds really interesting. Does it 'force' you to burn at the 'determined' speed or does it only 'recommend' it
There are only 10 types of people on this earth - those who know binary and those who don't.

Dell Inspiron 5100
P4 2.4 533 FSB,
512 MB / 40 GB,
Windows XP Home

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #33
i have a liteon 24x burner. works excellent. all 16x media ive tried has worked. pny,memorex all work at 24x.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #34
Quote
Originally posted by rjamorim


Well, in the end, depends on who's manufacturing the CDs.

Ricoh sells CDs produced by themselves (Ricoh Inc.) which are very good, but sell some produced by Ritek too. Ritek didn't get high marks at Cdmediaworld's tests.

The best brands (manufacturers), according to their tests, are the usual: Mitsui Toatsu, Kodak, TDK, Pioneer, Ricoh and, of course, Taiyo Yuden.

Here are some CD factory infos:
http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom...factories.shtml

Interesting to notice the "Personal Favorites" section - Taiyo Yuden is the clear winner!

Regards;

Roberto.


I remember a little utility that can read the info section of a blank CD,  and tell you which type and manufacturer it is (assuming the company writing it isn't lying to you).

Unfortunatly,  I cant remember the name,  or where to find it.. 

I usually buy bulk, no-name disks and it helped to identify the good ones, from the ones I'd tend to want to burn slower, or not buy next time!

Jon

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #35
Quote
Originally posted by JonPike


I remember a little utility that can read the info section of a blank CD,  and tell you which type and manufacturer it is (assuming the company writing it isn't lying to you).

Unfortunatly,  I cant remember the name,  or where to find it.. 


Its called CDR Identifier. Download it here:

http://personal.vsnl.com/kartikj/cdrid163.zip
There are only 10 types of people on this earth - those who know binary and those who don't.

Dell Inspiron 5100
P4 2.4 533 FSB,
512 MB / 40 GB,
Windows XP Home

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #36
Quote
Ritek didn't get high marks at Cdmediaworld's tests.

The best brands (manufacturers), according to their tests, are the usual: Mitsui Toatsu, Kodak, TDK, Pioneer, Ricoh and, of course, Taiyo Yuden.


According to CDR Identifier all of the TDK (and Memorex) discs that I've purchased here in California have been manufactured by Ritek.

Rob

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #37
I've translated some 32x/40x CD-R tests. These new generation of CD-Rs show an unbelievably bad performance, previously only known from ultra-cheap noname CD-Rs. It also says something about the different CD writers. The article can be found here.


Verbatim CD-R 700 MB 32x:

Error rates skyrocket after the first half of the disc at 32x. Lowering the speed to 20x or 16x doesn't help much. Especially prone to this are the Plextor and Benq 40x drives. Lite-On 40x works a bit better with this disc. Average BLER is 26.43 errors/second. High. Good CD-Rs like the Teac 24 have 0.77 errors/sec here. Maximum was a surprising 196 errors/sec: immensely high! The hardware CD-R tester asserted both E22 and E32 (uncorrectable) errors - very bad! Atip (Absolute Time in Pregroove): 97m 34s 22f


Verbatim CD-R 700 MB 40x:

These Mitsubishi Chemicals CD-Rs are supposed to be for high recording speeds. The Benq-burner, however, accepts only 32x speed, and with high error rates. Plextor and Lite-On 40x burners managed to burn with 40x, but with exorbitant error rates (the Lite-On was a bit better). Average BLER is 59.91 errors/sec, this is too high for reliable data archiving. Maximum BLER is 433.17 errors/second: Way, way above spec... it's not funny anymore! The hardware analyzer detected E22-Errors, at least there were no E32-errors. Still, quality rating can only be 'very poor'. Atip (Absolute Time in Pregroove): 97m 34s 23f


Philips CD-R 80 40x:

It seems that Philips doesn't test their media. In the Benq 40x burner, the error rates were always above spec, same with the Plextor 40x. Data loss is likely. The Lite-On managed to do analyzable runs at 40x and 32x. BLER is 143 errors/sec average, 363.67 errors/sec maximum: A more than poor performance! To make things worse, the analyzer drive detected E22 and E32-errors. This CD-R is basically garbage. Atip (Absolute Time in Pregroove): 97m 15s 17f


Fujifilm CD-R 1-40x:

A CD-R with varying results. The 40x-max Benq burner decided to use 16x speed maximum, but with acceptable error rates. The Lite-On 40x burner wanted to use 32x, and this was a good decision, error rates are bearable. Only the Plextor goes all out and uses full 40x-speed for this CD-R: Bad move. Although the average BLER of 9.92 errors/sec is still okay, the maximum BLER of 103.17 errors/sec is out of question! Furthermore, there were E22 and E32-errors with the Plextor at 40x. Conclusion: This CD-R is unusable at 40x, the speed with the Plextor should be lowered manually by any means. Atip (Absolute Time in Pregroove): 97m 26s 45f




Addition to the test, most likely going online soon:


Imation CD-R 32x 700 MB:

Instable: This CMC Magnetics CD-R doesn't deliver. With the Plextor, Benq and Lite-On 40x-max burners, error rates are more than critical at 32x speed. The Lite-On burner managed to achieve half-decent results at 24x speed. The analyzer measured an average block error rate (BLER) of 30.02 errors per second, quite much. But the maximum BLER of 171.17 errors/sec is dangerous for data integrity. Furthermore, there were E22 and E32 errors. Conclusion: Don't use this CD-R for important data. Atip (Absolute Time in Pregroove): 97m 26s 66f

( http://www.pcwelt.de/tests/hardware-tests/rohlinge/24183/ )



Results of a good CD-R, to enable a comparison:

Teac CD-R 700 MB 24x:

This CD-R has an average BLER of only 0.77 errors/second and a maximum BLER of 14.83 errors/second. No E22 or E32 errors could be detected by our analyzer drive. Recommendable. ATIP (Absolute Time in Pregroove): 97m 27s 56f

( http://www.pcwelt.de/tests/hardware-tests/rohlinge/21643/ )

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #38
Well I wonder why the (widely available) HP CDRs with Taiyo Yuden made material was not tested  These have been so far the best built CDRs I have used.
There are only 10 types of people on this earth - those who know binary and those who don't.

Dell Inspiron 5100
P4 2.4 533 FSB,
512 MB / 40 GB,
Windows XP Home

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #39
Yamaha CRW3200 e vk here...

Nero forces a low burning speed by default, but there is just to disable an option like "optimum speed thing" in Nero to be able to write at any speed on any CDR.

Buring 24x on HiSpace CarbonCD, no coaster
1 test : audio copy read with the Sony DDU1621 : bitwise identical to the original wav file.
The Memorex DVDmaxx 1640 has one line of error correction at the beginning of the rip, but nothing on 16x burned CDs.

Old Teac CDRs were Mitsui.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #40
Quote
Originally posted by experttech
Well I wonder why the (widely available) HP CDRs with Taiyo Yuden made material was not tested  These have been so far the best built CDRs I have used.


They tested many other CD-Rs as well, but what i wanted to point out is the tremendously bad quality of the new 32x and 40x CD-Rs. If you tell me which brands use Taiyo Yuden discs, i'll see if i can find a review of them.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #41
Quote
Originally posted by CiTay
If you tell me which brands use Taiyo Yuden discs, i'll see if i can find a review of them.


Here:
http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_factories.shtml#CD Factories://http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardwar...ml#CD Factories://http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardwar...ml#CD Factories://http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardwar...ml#CD Factories

Near the end of the table.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #42
Quote
Originally posted by experttech


This sounds really interesting. Does it 'force' you to burn at the 'determined' speed or does it only 'recommend' it


It actually "forces" the speed it decides, regardless of what I choose in the write-options dialouge in Nero. Nero will still say " burning at 24x (3600kb/sec)", but the drive will not spin up for zone-clv and stays in 8x mode the whole time (it should start at 16x and go up to 24x after the 22 minute mark). The 80 minute CD also takes 10 minutes to burn, hence 8x speed.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #43
Does anyone know if *all* Taiyo Yuden (including 32x certified) are good media?  I was thinking about buying a spindle here (bottom left link on the page):

http://www.cdrplanet.com/taiyoyuden.html

But I don't want to waste money if it's gonna be as bad as recent brands I've tried (insanely high BLER's just like the articles are talking about).  In that case, I'll try a smaller order of Mitsui discs.

Thanks for any info...

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #44
Quote
Originally posted by Cygnus X1
Nero will still say " burning at 24x (3600kb/sec)", but the drive will not spin up for zone-clv and stays in 8x mode the whole time


It sounds like your version of Nero doesn't support or recognize your burner. Do you have the last one ?

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #45
Quote
Originally posted by Pio2001


It sounds like your version of Nero doesn't support or recognize your burner. Do you have the last one ?


I have version 5.5.8.2. Since the problem only occurs with the cheapo discs, it's probably more a function of the internal chip/firmware more so than the software. . the writer will only burn at 8x in CloneCD with the crap discs also. However, I don't have any problems with TDK or Memorex blanks, which burn at 24x. My CD-RW's also burn at the highest rated speed (10x). I guess the moral of the story here is to be careful about buying foot-high spindles of cheap media. . I'm stuck with burning at 8x until I get rid of all the discs, which could be close to forever!

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #46
Quote
Originally posted by fewtch

But I don't want to waste money if it's gonna be as bad as recent brands I've tried (insanely high BLER's just like the articles are talking about).  In that case, I'll try a smaller order of Mitsui discs.

Thanks for any info...


Well I would definitely recommend the Taiyo Yuden - especially the branded ones. Thats why I've been wondering why is not HP mentioned anywhere. Im sure that Taiyo Yuden coupled with the build quality of HP will rock. The page you listed only mentions the unbranded ones, though.

But again, quality comes at a price. So what I generally do is buy about 25 HP disks for sensitive data and the remaining would be the (cheaper) Samsung (Ritek !) or unbranded media.

These reviews about high speed supporting media have really scared me
There are only 10 types of people on this earth - those who know binary and those who don't.

Dell Inspiron 5100
P4 2.4 533 FSB,
512 MB / 40 GB,
Windows XP Home

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #47
Hmm, i couldn't find tests there that explicitly mention the use of Taiyo Yuden discs.

But in the meantime, they tested another one of the new 32x CD-Rs. Sadly, it completely fails. This means that there's currently no usable 32x/40x CD-R on the market.


(Summary of http://www.pcwelt.de/tests/hardware-tests/rohlinge/24308/)

Benq CD-R 1x-32x:

This one didn't perform reliably on any of the 40x-max writers. The error rates were so high that our analyzer drive couldn't fully read the CDs and often stopped the testing process. The Plextor didn't even want to finish burning at 32x speed. The average BLER was 51.52 errors/second, very high. The maximum BLER of 211.67 is almost above the spec. Also, there were many E22 and E32 (uncorrectable) errors. It can't get much worse. Atip (Absolute Time in Pregroove): 97m 22s 67f

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #48
Quote
Originally posted by experttech


Well I would definitely recommend the Taiyo Yuden - especially the branded ones. Thats why I've been wondering why is not HP mentioned anywhere. Im sure that Taiyo Yuden coupled with the build quality of HP will rock. The page you listed only mentions the unbranded ones, though.

But again, quality comes at a price. So what I generally do is buy about 25 HP disks for sensitive data and the remaining would be the (cheaper) Samsung (Ritek !) or unbranded media.

These reviews about high speed supporting media have really scared me

I've never seen an HP-branded CD-R.  Where would a person go about buying them (in the USA)?  Do you know?

Are there any other brands (particular speeds) you recommend?  It's too bad there's no way to test a certain brand before buying a spool... and being marked as 16x max or 12x max is no guarantee of quality either!

I really wouldn't know what to buy at this point, for quality.  Maybe the Mitsui discs listed at www.cdrplanet.com

Finally... why would branded be better than unbranded?  I hate paying for brand names when it's unnecessary.

Buying a new CD Writer

Reply #49
Quote
Originally posted by fewtch

Finally... why would branded be better than unbranded?  I hate paying for brand names when it's unnecessary.


Well HP is one brand you wont repent paying for ( I'm not doing any marketing for HP here  )

I have a lot of HP CDs that I have burnt more than 3 years back which are in perfect condition and look like they'll remain that way. The unbranded ones I burnt lasted for a year or so before throwing up unreadable sectors.
There are only 10 types of people on this earth - those who know binary and those who don't.

Dell Inspiron 5100
P4 2.4 533 FSB,
512 MB / 40 GB,
Windows XP Home

 
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