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foo_gramophone

Hi,

I like to ask if a DSP guru would like to programm this opposite pice of Hifi-plugin?

foo_gramophone

- add noise
- add crackle
- add rumbling

for the "warm and fuzzy" feeling of vinyl-records
.halverhahn


foo_gramophone

Reply #2
use wmp 

foo_gramophone

Reply #3
Quote
- add noise

use foo_dsp_white_noise for starters 

I'll leave coloured noise, crackling and rumbling up to someone else..
A riddle is a short sword attached to the next 2000 years.

foo_gramophone

Reply #4
Okay, now I just HAVE to have some Rice Krispies.

foo_gramophone

Reply #5
The challenge isn't the noise etc, or even the EQ (for a real gramophone) - it's getting the inherent distortion with a worn record accurately simulated.

With worn early LPs, loud treble always leads to a harsh ripping or tearing kind of distortion. With 78s, the grooves containing any loud sound (especially bass sound) would be slowly ground away by the steel playing needle, creating a distinctive sounding mess around the loudest parts of a record.

I haven't heard a simulation which gets close to being accurate on either feature, but I haven't tried many...

However, if I take a 78 played electrically (i.e. a recording which already contain noise, pops, crackle and distortion), and apply the correct EQ for a wind-up gramophone, then I can't tell the different between this and an actual recording of the gramophone. I got the EQ by recording a "silent" (i.e. just noise!) section of the disc played on a gramophone, and creating an FFT filter in CEP to match the spectrum.

Cheers,
David.

foo_gramophone

Reply #6
Quote
The challenge isn't the noise etc, or even the EQ (for a real gramophone) - it's getting the inherent distortion with a worn record accurately simulated.

With worn early LPs, loud treble always leads to a harsh ripping or tearing kind of distortion. With 78s, the grooves containing any loud sound (especially bass sound) would be slowly ground away by the steel playing needle, creating a distinctive sounding mess around the loudest parts of a record.

I haven't heard a simulation which gets close to being accurate on either feature, but I haven't tried many...

However, if I take a 78 played electrically (i.e. a recording which already contain noise, pops, crackle and distortion), and apply the correct EQ for a wind-up gramophone, then I can't tell the different between this and an actual recording of the gramophone. I got the EQ by recording a "silent" (i.e. just noise!) section of the disc played on a gramophone, and creating an FFT filter in CEP to match the spectrum.

Cheers,
David.

could you make that file an impulse or something, so that it would work w/ the convolver?  heheh.

foo_gramophone

Reply #7
I've lost the cool.ini file with the filter in, otherwise I'd have posted it - sorry!

foo_gramophone

Reply #8
Quote
Quote
- add noise

use foo_dsp_white_noise for starters 

I'll leave coloured noise, crackling and rumbling up to someone else..

Great, a good start for the project.
.halverhahn

foo_gramophone

Reply #9
there is a plugin which does exactly what you are searching for exept it's not for foobar.
it is called iZotope Vinyl, is free of charge and comes as plugin for
* winamp (http://www.winamp.com/plugins/details.php?id=39214)
* directx (http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/download.asp)
* vst
* pro tools

so you got at least 4 more options:
* use winamp for vinyl
* write a winamp-dsp-plugin-bridge for foobar (wait a year and i've done it)
* write directx-plugin-bridge for foobar (wait three years and i've done it)
* politely ask izotope to write a foobar version

foo_gramophone

Reply #10
Quote
there is a plugin which does exactly what you are searching for exept it's not for foobar.
it is called iZotope Vinyl, is free of charge and comes as plugin for

Groovy  Thank You!
.halverhahn

foo_gramophone

Reply #11
Quote
write directx-plugin-bridge for foobar (wait three years and i've done it)

Really? Please do so. This is something we've long seeking a solution for.
The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.

foo_gramophone

Reply #12
Very nice plugin - gave me reason to use WA on the crashbox for a whole ten minutes.
<offtopic>
Is there a reason that WA 5.02 does not have support for wavepack and flac files 'out of the box' like fb2k? And yes, I am sure that I could get plugins if I actually wanted to use that program; just asking  out of curiosity.
</offtopic>

edit: changed wording slightly

foo_gramophone

Reply #13
It'd be pretty leet to make a plugin that boasts on-the-fly 3d modelling of a groove, accurate physical simulation of, dust, scratches; cartridge and needle movement etc..

I am not the one.. 
A riddle is a short sword attached to the next 2000 years.

foo_gramophone

Reply #14
Quote
Very nice plugin - gave me reason to use WA on the crashbox for a whole ten minutes.
<offtopic>
Is there a reason that WA 5.02 does not have support for wavepack and flac files 'out of the box' like fb2k? And yes, I am sure that I could get plugins if I actually wanted to use that program; just asking   out of curiosity.
</offtopic>

edit: changed wording slightly

Yes.  most people in the world don't even know what wavepack or flac is.  Winamp's target audience is "normal" users, not power users.  winamp falls somewhere between musicmatch and foobar2000, as far as the demographic it caters to.

foo_gramophone

Reply #15
Quote
Quote
write directx-plugin-bridge for foobar (wait three years and i've done it)

Really? Please do so. This is something we've long seeking a solution for.

The option to use VST- and DirectX-Plugins would be appreciated. Thousands of professional  plugins are waiting. 
.halverhahn

foo_gramophone

Reply #16
IMHO we need at least these bridges for fb2k:


--VIS-WINAMP--
i'm currently working on it! (yes, coding already started...)

--VIS-SONIQUE--
maybe the one who built the sonique2winamp bridge can help us...

--DSP-WINAMP--
if i succeed with vis-winamp i'll take this step next. should be quite the same...

--DSP-DIRECTX--
for now much too heavy for me. (that's what the three years stood for :-)...)
if YOU wanna do this source code for a dx-hostapp(!) can be found here: http://www.thedirectxfiles.com/developers.htm.

--DSP-VST--
too heavy for now, too. source code can be found at http://ygrabit.steinberg.de/users/ygrabit/...html/index.html.


i don't think we really need support for winamp's in- and output-plugins.
have i forgotten anything important?

ps: i'm a student of informatics in first semester and there are some "bigger tests"
to pass right now so don't expect miracles this week, okay :-)
be sure winamp-vis-for-foobar will come in the next 5 years... :-)

foo_gramophone

Reply #17
BTW did you know... that foobar can load vst as soon as winamp-dsp?

there is a directx-plugin that can load vst and there is winamp-plugin that can load directx. so we'll get something like

foobar <- winamp <- directx <- vst.


nice and cpu-friendly :-)

foo_gramophone

Reply #18
Quote
--VIS-WINAMP--
i'm currently working on it! (yes, coding already started...)
[...]
be sure winamp-vis-for-foobar will come in the next 5 years... :-)

If I were you I'd search this forum first, then talk to people @ #foobar2000 and ask them why exactly they deleted the source code after they'd tried to write such plugin. Then I'd ask myself If I know how to solve problems they had (starting from PostQuitMessage being send when winamp vis plugin terminates, which also terminates foobar2000).

Don't mean to discourage you, just make sure that your work will bring something more than just frustrations from working with winamp SDK...

foo_gramophone

Reply #19
Quote
(1) Then I'd ask myself If I know how to solve problems they had (starting from PostQuitMessage being send when winamp vis plugin terminates, which also terminates foobar2000).

(2) Don't mean to discourage you, just make sure that your work will bring something more than just frustrations from working with winamp SDK...


(1) AFAIK this problem can be solved by multi-threading. GetMessage handles all  windows of the same thread, not process. my plugin bridge will use multithreading. some plugins will need a partly emulated winamp api - i know. i hope there'll be a way to use foo_winamp_spam so i don't need to do all work again. let's see - in a week i'll telll you it's impossible... :-)

(2) working with winamp sdk is not frustrating. programming in general when there are sitting too many bugs on your shoulders  but winamp sdk in particular is much more fun than the one of foobar cause it's not OOP! it's much easier! foobar component structure might be superior but is much harder to program!

foo_gramophone

Reply #20
hartwork: good luck then  Milkdrop is probably still the best vis around, so it would be nice to try it with foobar.

foo_gramophone

Reply #21
Quote
but winamp sdk in particular is much more fun than the one of foobar cause it's not OOP! it's much easier! foobar component structure might be superior but is much harder to program!

And that from the person who wants to write bridge plugins.

You're scaring me. 
A riddle is a short sword attached to the next 2000 years.

 
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