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Poll

Monkeys Audio
[ 83 ] (55.3%)
LPAC
[ 8 ] (5.3%)
FLAC
[ 46 ] (30.7%)
WAVpack
[ 9 ] (6%)
Other
[ 4 ] (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 196

Topic: Best lossless codec? (Read 11786 times) previous topic - next topic
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Best lossless codec?

im wondering which lossless codec people use the most.

i know this is a place for lossy coding stuff, but i know of no other place like this for lossless coding technology questions.

thanks!

Best lossless codec?

Reply #1 –
I think the "Best lossless codec" question isn't very appropiate.

It all depends on each person's needs.

Monkey's Audio compresses the most* and is the fastest. Besides, it's source is open.

Flac is good if you want to play it on every platform. (Or if you are a GNU freak)

WavPack has this great hybrid mode.

And Shorten is the most used for sharing.

I, for instance, would be in doubt between Monkey (For it's superior encoding engine) and Wavpack (For the hybrid feature)

Regards;

Roberto.

*Although sometimes RKau and Frog compress better. They're too slow, unfortunately.

Best lossless codec?

Reply #2 –
I use LPAC... for no other reason except it's the codec I downloaded & started using first.  It gets the job done.

Best lossless codec?

Reply #3 –
I use Monkey's Audio - easy to use, compresses a lot, and it's the first one I started using  .I may one day give OptimFrog a try, though

Best lossless codec?

Reply #4 –
To Lossless Compress Audio Losslessly or otherwise so that more will fit and play on a standard cd player? Thanks Jeff

Best lossless codec?

Reply #6 –
optimFrog for storing.
Anything else: FLAC...I think it's supose to get replaygain feature in the future.

Best lossless codec?

Reply #7 –
I've tried FLAC and LPAC and settled on LPAC because it has a nice frontend. My only niggle with it is that it seems to hog a far share of CPU time so if I'm LPACing a lot of files I stick the process on Below Normal in taskman. I know there is an Idle/Normal/High slider but it dont seem to have much effect for me.

Best lossless codec?

Reply #8 –
Quote
Originally posted by jjarmak
To Lossless Compress Audio Losslessly or otherwise so that more will fit and play on a standard cd player? Thanks Jeff
Nope, no can do. You got 80-minute CD's, but maybe try using a 99-minute CD as well. After that, you're at the limits of CD-DA.

Best lossless codec?

Reply #9 –
Quote
Originally posted by jjarmak
To Lossless Compress Audio Losslessly or otherwise so that more will fit and play on a standard cd player? Thanks Jeff


In fact there is one hardware platform at the moment that supports flac compressed files: The PhatNoise Phatbox:
http://phatbox.sixpak.org/phatbox/flac.phtml

Phatnoise homepage

Best lossless codec?

Reply #10 –
Tried Monkey had to many errors.  Could not get it to work, whether it was hardware or software does matter at this point.  Lpac did the job just fine.
What if the Hokey Pokey....is What it's all about?

Best lossless codec?

Reply #11 –
Why do you need a frontend, just use it with EAC

Best lossless codec?

Reply #12 –
Quote
Originally posted by rjamorim

Monkey's Audio compresses the most* and is the fastest. Besides, it's source is open.


Fastest at encoding... I would say that if you plan to ever listen to them on something else than a PC that you also investigate decoding times.  Several other codecs are faster when it comes to decoding than the adaptive ones (MAC, FROG, etc) where the encoding and decoding times are symmetric.

Josh

Best lossless codec?

Reply #13 –
Quote
Originally posted by smg
Tried Monkey had to many errors.  Could not get it to work, whether it was hardware or software does matter at this point.  Lpac did the job just fine.


I would no errors in Monkey's Audio. Code
is very easy to read (I would say it's one of the
best readble software I saw in the last 5 years).

May be I will add some code for hardware checks
in it and stop the program if the hardware is
defect.
--  Frank Klemm

Best lossless codec?

Reply #14 –
Definately FLAC for portability, decompression speed and small CPU useage when playing the FLAC files through for example Winamp...  (I use it all the time... FLAC that is...)

Best lossless codec?

Reply #15 –
Quote
Originally posted by Sachankara
Definately FLAC for portability, decompression speed and small CPU useage when playing the FLAC files through for example Winamp...  (I use it all the time... FLAC that is...)


Flac's compression ratio is very poor (imho Monkey's the best lossless).


Bye, dB

Best lossless codec?

Reply #16 –
Quote
Originally posted by Frank Klemm

I would no errors in Monkey's Audio.


This is certainly true. My hardware was found to be inept when using Monkey's. The only way I solved CRC errors was lowering FSB and increasing CPU multiplier. People with problems might want seriously consider the FSB/multiplier solution, it seems there's a lot of glitchy RAM sticks out there which Monkey's will reveal as deficient.
"Something bothering you, Mister Spock?"

Best lossless codec?

Reply #17 –
Monkeys audio is good, but seems you pushed that overclock a little too much...

Best lossless codec?

Reply #18 –
Not at all.

System is supposed to be 3.5x100.

North bridge introduced errors until underclocked to 4.0x83.3

Monkey's errors ceased at 4.5x75.0
"Something bothering you, Mister Spock?"

Best lossless codec?

Reply #19 –
Quote
Originally posted by dB


Flac's compression ratio is very poor (imho Monkey's the best lossless).


Bye, dB
Very poor? ~2-3% better compression than FLAC... That unfortunatly doesn't justify using it when it's not 100% cross-platform... Also, APE requires too much processing power for playback so we'll likely never see a hardware player with support for it...

Best lossless codec?

Reply #20 –
Too much power for playback of Monkey's Audio files?  Granted I'm running a 1.3Ghz Athlon, but playback of Monkey's Audio files in winamp consumes as much or less CPU than playback of MP3 and Musepack files.  Doing one right now and Winamp peaks at 2-4% CPU about every four seconds or so then drops back down to 0%.

At least with the winamp plugin I'm seeing no performance issues whatsoever with APE files.

Best lossless codec?

Reply #21 –
Quote
Originally posted by gdougherty
Too much power for playback of Monkey's Audio files?  Granted I'm running a 1.3Ghz Athlon, but playback of Monkey's Audio files in winamp consumes as much or less CPU than playback of MP3 and Musepack files.  Doing one right now and Winamp peaks at 2-4% CPU about every four seconds or so then drops back down to 0%.

At least with the winamp plugin I'm seeing no performance issues whatsoever with APE files.


CPU usage in Windows, in a Winamp plugin, on a 1.3GHz Athlon is not a good indicator of codec complexity when you're talking about embedded hardware.  MAC is less demanding than MP3 to decode, but most embedded MP3 implementations use custom hardware for decoding, a luxury not afforded to any but the most popular codecs.

You really need to analyze the actual format.  In MAC's case you can reverse-engineer it from the source.  For FLAC you can just read the spec.

Josh

Best lossless codec?

Reply #22 –
Quote
Originally posted by jcoalson

CPU usage in Windows, in a Winamp plugin, on a 1.3GHz Athlon is not a good indicator of codec complexity when you're talking about embedded hardware.  MAC is less demanding than MP3 to decode, but most embedded MP3 implementations use custom hardware for decoding, a luxury not afforded to any but the most popular codecs.

You really need to analyze the actual format.  In MAC's case you can reverse-engineer it from the source.  For FLAC you can just read the spec.

Josh


1. Nice that the file format is documented. But it is not proven that it can be used
    to write an independent encoder/decoder. Therefore standardization commitee
  often requires a 2nd independent implementation. And even this do not
  guarantees that you will be able to write an decoder in 2002 when you found
  some files and the file format documenation.

2. With my knowledge it was very easy to port Monkey's Audio to Linux/gcc.
    Time effort was something around 2...4 hours. It is really nice structured
    and easy to read (Note: I have little skills with C++ and Windows).

3. Current there 2 projects which I can't translate: Flac and Ogg/Vorbis.
    I have no idea what happens in the autoconf/automake/libtool ...
    stuff around. It terminates with a syntax error.

    I prefer reading and fixing some well written C code (even when not portable)
    over  a huge bunch of recursively called scripts where version 1.4 is incompatible
    to 1.4.3a

4. I know that the MPC source in the current state is also a big heap of
    shit. Adding features and morphing code without redesign.

Archiving software (10++ years usability) must be written that you can compile it
on a 12 year old computer and on a computer in 2014. A lot of special tools
is not the right method.

Often I have more trouble to port Linux programs to Linux than Windows console
programs to Linux. This sounds like a joke, but it isn't one.
--  Frank Klemm
 

Best lossless codec?

Reply #23 –
Quote
Originally posted by Sachankara
Very poor? ~2-3% better compression than FLAC... That unfortunatly doesn't justify using it when it's not 100% cross-platform... Also, APE requires too much processing power for playback so we'll likely never see a hardware player with support for it...

Even if it was true that APE requires too much processing power for portable use (its not), its a moot point whether APE support appears in portables for most of us...  Lossless files are simply too large to be in major demand for the portable market, and thus development will likely not bother implementing them, outside of niche products.

For the real purpose of lossless (archival, and/or lossless playback on pc), MAC is by far the most robust.  Other codecs are still having problems with tagging, seeking, compression, encoding speed, where MAC leads in each category.  I will be interested to see where development in MAC heads, as there aren't any major weaknesses.  While we can always hope for more compression, I've read the MAC dev say he is running short of new ideas in that direction.  Maybe with the source available he can get some help with that.

Best lossless codec?

Reply #24 –
Quote
Originally posted by floyd

Even if it was true that APE requires too much processing power for portable use (its not), its a moot point whether APE support appears in portables for most of us...  Lossless files are simply too large to be in major demand for the portable market, and thus development will likely not bother implementing them, outside of niche products.

For the real purpose of lossless (archival, and/or lossless playback on pc), MAC is by far the most robust.  Other codecs are still having problems with tagging, seeking, compression, encoding speed, where MAC leads in each category.  I will be interested to see where development in MAC heads, as there aren't any major weaknesses.  While we can always hope for more compression, I've read the MAC dev say he is running short of new ideas in that direction.  Maybe with the source available he can get some help with that.


Some question about FLAC:

- I was not able to compress files with more than 8 channels.
  Nonsense? At the IFA 2001 there was a 64 channel demonstration.
  That other programs only support 1 and 2 channels is not an excuse.

- I was not able to compress a 8 bit 1 channel 70 GByte PCM file.
  It looks like there is a limitation to save some bits in the FLAC header
--  Frank Klemm
 
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