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Topic: AAC in AVI container (Read 59488 times) previous topic - next topic
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AAC in AVI container

Reply #50 –
It's more like a urgent need to tell people if they write weird phantasies and wishes: Someone claiming that AAC in AVI were impossible is reason enough to implement it, just to prove him wrong. Especially if it is someone who has obviously been brainwashed, like you (unless you have another explanation for and I won't even mention multiple sound tracks. I'm sure multichannel audio shoehorned into .avi will be the next big thing...).

AAC in AVI container

Reply #51 –
I'm sure that everything-except-the-kitchen-sink in avi will be the next big thing. :-)

AAC in AVI container

Reply #52 –
Not really. But if I ever understand the Vorbis bitstream, i'm going to hack Vorbis into AVI (by packing several frames into one chunk, so that one chunk always contains about the same duration)

AAC in AVI container

Reply #53 –
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Not really. But if I ever understand the Vorbis bitstream, i'm going to hack Vorbis into AVI (by packing several frames into one chunk, so that one chunk always contains about the same duration)

But why? Ogg works...

AAC in AVI container

Reply #54 –
To prove all those who claimed it would not work wrong

AAC in AVI container

Reply #55 –
Looking forward to your hacks, alexnoe.

AAC in AVI container

Reply #56 –
When will you release your aac muxing software?

BTW: The Avi-mux gui webpage does have a typo. It says: "detailed informationen about AVI files", but the English word information doesn't have a plural form. It is common for French people to write infos but this the first time I saw a German version of the word being used in English.

AAC in AVI container

Reply #57 –
I know that there are no informationS in english (and no furnitureS, no evidenceS, no proofS, no adviceS...all words which have plural forms in german  ).

There have been more typos of this kind in the language files and on the web page. When I had the idea about language files, I first wrote it in german, then saved it as english.lang, and then started to translate each line..... and sometimes, I just wrote nonsense. Unfortunately, such things also happened on the web page.

If you encounter more frenglish in the program or on my web page, tell me
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When will you release your aac muxing software?
I've just implemented reading AAC back from AVIs. If I don't encounter new major b0rks, the answer is 'soon'

AAC in AVI container

Reply #58 –
Wooohooo!!!!!!!

I'm looking forward to when i download some random .avi file and want to edit/cut/fiddle with it. Oh, all the fun to be had figureing WTF is happening.

We 'normal' users LOVE when weird, strange, totally and utterly non-needed/essential stuff makes annoying conflicts pop up.

GJ

PS. Looking forward to the aac in avi future!!! YAY!!

AAC in AVI container

Reply #59 –
Heh, serves you right for downloading movies in the first place.
May the FOURCC be with you...

AAC in AVI container

Reply #60 –
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Heh, serves you right for downloading movies in the first place.

Haha. Althalus is close to violating rule 9

AAC in AVI container

Reply #61 –
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years of watching postage stamp sized cinepak video coupled together with 11khz 8 bit audio (which admit it, that's what AVI was designed for)

This problem may interest you then.  Apparently there are synch issues using MP3 with certain sampling rates in AVI (including 11Kz) because of rounding that is used.  Just more proof that AVI really needed to die a long time ago.  Of course, there wasn't really a suitable replacement until now.

AAC in AVI container

Reply #62 –
There are not.

The problem is the crappy Fraunhofer Codec (about which you find some nice comments in the vd sourcecode), which writes b0rked byterates (not natural) at 11.025, 22,05 and 44,1 khz.

If better encoders are used, even those sample rates work

AAC in AVI container

Reply #63 –
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Of course, there wasn't really a suitable replacement until now.

There isn't yet, if you consider support. AVI has the most widerspread support, bar none.

AAC in AVI container

Reply #64 –
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There isn't yet, if you consider support. AVI has the most widerspread support, bar none.

Most of the nice AVI support out there is for old AVI 1.0, and most app developers havent botheres to invest any more time to update it. AVI 2.0 as Vdub writes them, are hybrid files i learned, using some parts of the specs from OpenDML AVI to be able to write the INDEX for files > 2 GB, but still using the AVI 1.0 file structure.

How do you think will nmost of those tools being capable to handle old style AVI do if they meet a file with AAC audio inside ? Yes, you guessed it, they will either crash or quit working ..... so whats the use here ?

AAC in AVI container

Reply #65 –
Since it is the same technique as for MP3, they could be upgraded within a few minutes, if they are designed properly (i.e. to handle mp3 vbr data)

AAC in AVI container

Reply #66 –
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The problem is the crappy Fraunhofer Codec (about which you find some nice comments in the vd sourcecode), which writes b0rked byterates (not natural) at 11.025, 22,05 and 44,1 khz.


Nonsense - the nature of audio and video compressed sterams is to be variable bit rate (and variable frame size as well in case of AAC),  limiting codec by forcing it to be "100% CBR" i.e. exact number of bits per frame is completely ridiculous.  The problem is that this crappy format (AVI) was designed in the days of uncompressed audio, or fixed-frame-size compression systems like GSM6.10, or ADPCM  and it is completely incapable of handling any advanced codec feature (variable bit rate,  variable frame size,  etc..).

We had this discussion about making "AAC into AVI" stuff, but number of problems prevented it from working properly -  there was a choice by preventing AAC frames to exceed desired framelength and filling smaller frames with fill bits, but that would completely detoriate the sound quality and make whole thing pretty inferior to MP4. 

There is a way to "hack" this, and use some kind of sync tables or whatever, but then it's not a standard AVI - you'd need your own DS filter - so  this is definitely not a way to go.

AAC in AVI container

Reply #67 –
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Nonsense - the nature of audio and video compressed sterams is to be variable bit rate (and variable frame size as well in case of AAC),  limiting codec by forcing it to be "100% CBR" i.e. exact number of bits per frame is completely ridiculous.

The funny thing about this is that it is CBR.  AVI just can't handle a non-interger value for the bytes/second.  It really is an AVI problem, not a problem with the codec.  Both the Fraunhofer and the Lame MP3 codecs produce fractional byte rates with those settings.

Again, there is nothing wrong with the codecs, it is simply a limitation of AVI.

AAC in AVI container

Reply #68 –
Then the solution is to write VBR headers even for the CBR stream.... avi-mux gui can do this of course.
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We had this discussion about making "AAC into AVI" stuff, but number of problems prevented it from working properly -
do you forget that, with vbr headers, M$ ignores the data rate value? All which is needed is a constant frame rate. This is completely logical, since vbr audio streams use video seeking.

AAC in AVI container

Reply #69 –
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Then the solution is to write VBR headers even for the CBR stream.... avi-mux gui can do this of course.

Great !! Avi-mux GUI can handle that, but how many other programs out there can ? So here we ( again ) come to the same question :

What sense does it make to hack all kind of stuff into AVI, if the main advantage of AVI ( in fact the only remaining advantage ), the widespread support of it, is not available for these new features because 99% of the apps out there cant deal with it ?

Alex, i am really sorry, but to say it with the Indian 'riding a dead horse' analogy :

You are not only riding a dead horse, but you are really incredibly successfull in convincing yourself every day that the horse isnt dead at all, but will soon come to the height of its youth, thanks to your splendid tool avi-mux GUI .....

AAC in AVI container

Reply #70 –
I'm not conving myself of anything; i'm just playing psycho games with you, and you are hating AVI that much that I will continue to have fun even after having told you that. 

In case your memory is b0rked: The only reason to make AAC in AVI works was to prove everyone wrong who claimed it would not work, due to simple lack of knowledge about the AVI format. People like those are the ones thanks to which the DVD+Alliance still exists 

AAC in AVI container

Reply #71 –
Well.. yawn.. I guess I could make a MPEG-4 to  VHS tape  modulator and store digital video to a VHS tape, just to prove people that VHS is not dead at all..

The only problem is - you will need my player that will "decode" the VHS stream.

Same for VBR audio in AVI - it's not a standard,  some players won't even play that, so there is no point to bother with it.

AAC in AVI container

Reply #72 –
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Well.. yawn.. I guess I could make a MPEG-4 to  VHS tape  modulator and store digital video to a VHS tape, just to prove people that VHS is not dead at all..

I saw an ad about VHS - hard drive -backup system some years (5-10) ago. Some magazine tested it and it was complete crap! (What a surprise!)

AAC in AVI container

Reply #73 –
But they proved that crappy ol' VHS is not yet for trashcan

Now, if I remember correctly - that thing allowed something in the range:

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320 lines x 60 samples per line x 4 bits per sample x 30 frames per second = 2304000 bits per second = 2.3Mb/sec = 288 kbytes per second.

That makes 17 megabytes per minute, storing 2.7 GB on a 160 minute VHS tape.



So - 2.3 Mb/s  on our disposal,  make that 50% to error correction, and you can still put MPEG-4 on that with very good quality and hi-res,  or DVD-like quality with H.264

AAC in AVI container

Reply #74 –
christian said;
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If that happens, i immediately quit my job on Vdub Support Forums, sorry Avery Lee


yes,because you really had your hands full answering the questions there..(  )
we will all cry if you leave.....

ok,now that was an answer as your statement deserved....as,what does avery or vdub forum has to do with avi in an aac...?
or with avi?
or with aac?
or with matroska?

you will leave if alex brings some more stuff into .avi?
huh... 

he does .avi and matroska and you do matroska,why do you need to fight all the time?
becuase he does .avi?

stop fights,alex,put that aac into .avi,and christian,work on mkv propaganda instead of these wars with alex...as i can testify it works...(but i'm still not using it as i lack the need for advanced options....)

they can both exist....in the end,the better one will prevail...

btw. alex,now you have to make it work...(  )

digital VHS?
yes,that exists;it's called "D-VHS"...JVC made it.....had some mach issues on some models,probably fixed by now...i believe it goes up to 27Mbit/s mpeg2

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Same for VBR audio in AVI - it's not a standard, some players won't even play that, so there is no point to bother with it.

standalone divx players?
and those will play .mkv files?
how?

it DOESN'T matter if there exists only one decoder and the one that was made by alex and it works;why should it matter?
it'll spread on the web fast enough....
you don't need 10 versions of ffdshow all made by different folks?
or did you made your personalzed version that you're using?
that's not a valid argument against anything...

1 working version is quite enough....