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Pre-Gap Concern

I have a CD that has a 3 minute gap before the first song.

The gap however really contains nothing, cept for near the end a backwards trumpet note.

Normaly i extract my music as a image and then cut the wav with a cue sheet, using the with gaps option.

The way I extract now usually gets everything, but now i am concerned.  Since most gaps at the start are 2 seconds, the only time the cue sheet displays any time there is if it is more than 2 seconds, such as 2.33 seconds.  Since this is usually silence, when you reburn it using the cue sheet, i'm guessing that the program just puts silence there.

But with this cd i have, i am almost certain i will lose that "musical" data, even though you don't hear it normaly during playback.  I really don't care about the sound snippet that i will lose, but it poses this question...

Has anyone found a cd that has a gap before the first track that does contain real music?

Thanks.

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #1
Yes.
In 1996 they issued a compilation of songs "Inspired by the show" X-Files.
It is called "Songs in the Key of X".
It has TWO songs before the first one starts. The only way to listen to those is hitting the "rewind" button until the start of the first hidden track.

If you extract those CDs with EAC's make image and cue-sheet feature, you won't lose any musical data at all.
And you should be able to burn it right back on another CD.
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #2
Thanks, i knew their had to be a cd out there like that.

Here is something else i am having a problem with.

I would like to extract the cd image and create cue sheet.  Then i usually split the wav by cue with gaps.  (I'd use corrected gaps, but then aren't the gaps at the start of the songs instead of at the end?) then I usually erase the image, and keep the individual wav's.  However, when i recombine the wav's, and then use the cue sheet, the last song on the burned cd is always short.  it's always short by the amount of gap after the inital 2 second gap.

For example "Cloud Nine" has 2.44 seconds in the starting gap.  After i do all my stuff and try to reburn it with a single wav and the cue sheet.  the last song is always short by .44 seconds.  I can't figure out why... has anyone encountered this problem before?

Thanks

I am trying a different method at this moment.  I'll post if that works.

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #3
Could it be cause my drive can not over read into the lead out?  Since i am using a + offset...

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #4
For an offset to read .4 seconds off, it would have to be HUGE.
I think that is not the problem, but I don't really understand what the problem is.
If you could try to explain yourself better, maybe I could try to help you.
Burning CD's using CUE files does not "delete" any data at the end of the files. This is simply not possible.
So the problem must be at extraction.
But please, try to explain better.
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #5
I'm sorry, but I have to add a Kylie Minogue album to this list.

I think it was 2001 Fever - the first track looked like it started at 0:00, but you could rewind before the 0 mark, and get an entire 4 min song - I think this was named "password" at some point.

Don't ask why I've got the CD though...
--Tosh

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #6
I mentioned it in another thread, but Factory Showroom by They Might Be Giants has a one minute song "Token Back to Brooklyn" hidden in the pre-gap (most CD players won't play it, but some will by rewinding past the first track, and I've ripped it with cdparanoia).
I am *expanding!*  It is so much *squishy* to *smell* you!  *Campers* are the best!  I have *anticipation* and then what?  Better parties in *the middle* for sure.
http://www.phong.org/

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #7
Quote
I'm sorry, but I have to add a Kylie Minogue album to this list.

I think it was 2001 Fever - the first track looked like it started at 0:00, but you could rewind before the 0 mark, and get an entire 4 min song - I think this was named "password" at some point.

Don't ask why I've got the CD though...

Arg, I have that CD ripped, and I missed that  .  Will have to re-rip probably (are you talking about the US version or other version? - US versions always seem to be missing the cool extras  )

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #8
David Gray's White Ladder cd has a hidden track called "I Can't Get Through to Myself" that begins before track 1.  You have to rewind past 00:00 on your player to listen to it.  No big loss though if you miss it during ripping.  IMO the album's fine without the hidden track.
WavPack 4.31 / LAME 3.98 alpha 3 -V9 -vbr-new

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #9
Mayhem - Grand Declaration Of War also has a hidden track prior to track 1, but it isn't too interesting, either (it's the last song played backwards  )...

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #10
Quote
Yes.
In 1996 they issued a compilation of songs "Inspired by the show" X-Files.
It is called "Songs in the Key of X".
It has TWO songs before the first one starts. The only way to listen to those is hitting the "rewind" button until the start of the first hidden track.

Yup, there definitely are two songs there.
Although the TOC shows something different.

PERFORMER "Various Artists"
TITLE "Songs In The Key Of X"
FILE "CDImage.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "X Files Theme (Main Title)"
    PERFORMER "Mark Snow"
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 09:12:25
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Unmarked Helicopters"
    PERFORMER "Soul Coughing"
    INDEX 01 12:37:12
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
  ...

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #11
Quote
Yup, there definitely are two songs there.
Although the TOC shows something different.

PERFORMER "Various Artists"
TITLE "Songs In The Key Of X"
FILE "CDImage.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "X Files Theme (Main Title)"
    PERFORMER "Mark Snow"
INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 09:12:25

See the over-9 minute pre-gap?
That's were they are.
9 minutes sure is enough for two songs.
You can use EAC to extract "index-based" all the data in those 9-plus minutes, and then a Wave Editor to split the data. That way you can access those songs at any time you want.
I don't remember them, though. I listened to that CD day and night when it came out, but when I got fed-up with the X-Files, it got buried in the deepest part of my collection. Has not came out since. I found about those songs way later. I remember them not being particularly good. Where they?
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #12
Quote

Quote
See the over-9 minute pre-gap?
That's were they are.
9 minutes sure is enough for two songs.


"Meesa sea them-a. Meesa not-a dumb-a, meesa only pointinga outa that-a..."

...this particular cd violates common sense, in that there is nothing it the TOC separating the two tracks in the "truly hidden" pregap of the first track.
So you can't really seek to the second hidden track without modifying the TOC.

Annoying.

Quote
You can use EAC to extract "index-based" all the data in those 9-plus minutes, and then a Wave Editor to split the data. That way you can access those songs at any time you want.


Except you can't "access those songs at any time you want", because only the first hidden track can be sought to.
EDIT: Oh, split them in a wave auditor. OK.

Quote
I remember them not being particularly good. Where they?


Nope, they wreck the catchy "whistle-melody" in the intro of the cd.

 

Pre-Gap Concern

Reply #13
Lit's CD "A Place In The Sun" has a 1:50 hidden track.  It's not a full song more like an intro to the album (no words just guitar and drums.)

I extract into individual files.  So the only way for me to get this track is to extract this album using "Append Gaps To Next Track" correct?  Let's say I use this (and the appropriate CUE sheet) in the future to burn a copy of the CD.  The copy will be slightly different than the original in that the track times will not be exact, right?  Are there any other issues I need to watch out for?

 
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