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Poll

Are "sound color" of codecs important for you?

I just prefer quality and fidelity, sound color is not important for me.
Sound color is important for me but I still prefer higher quality. (Please specify: which codecs/encoders are good and which ones are bad for you?)
Sound color is very important for me and I prefer a good sound color over higher quality. (Please specify: which codecs/encoders are good and which ones are bad for you?)
Topic: Sound colors of codecs (Read 1541 times) previous topic - next topic
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Sound colors of codecs

Hello. This is my first poll, I hope I'm doing right.

My answer: Sound color is very important for me and I prefer a good sound color over higher quality. My favorite codec is MP3 and my favorite encoder is Adobe Flash CS6 (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,125914.0.html and looks like FhG). I prefer 16kbps MP3 over the original sound for music in most cases. I hate Opus and all neural codecs.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #1 –
I prefer Leberwurstschnittchen with medium temperature codecs.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #2 –
@Squeller I can't understand you, sorry, can you explain a little more?

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #3 –
I was joking as you may guess, because you are joking/trolling? I thought the concept of "sound color" is weird. Why should you want to distort output with codec artifacts?

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #4 –
@Squeller I'm not joking, I was started to listen 11025Hz low bitrate MP3's after realizing most Flash games were actually using 11025Hz low bitrate MP3's (they were sounding very good). 11025Hz low bitrate MP3's are easier to listen than the original ones for me. You can just vote for "I just prefer quality and fidelity, sound color is not important for me." if you don't think "sound color" is a thing.

Edit: This is just like this: Some guitar amplifiers distorts the output and some people like this "sound color".

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Squeller on
I was joking as you may guess, because you are joking/trolling? I thought the concept of "sound color" is weird. Why should you want to distort output with codec artifacts?
Interesting how Klymins joined on April Fool's Day huh

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #6 –
@jaybeee This is not April Fools.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #7 –
X

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Klymins on
Edit: This is just like this: Some guitar amplifiers distorts the output and some people like this "sound color".
The big difference is: guitar amps add harmonic distortion, which gives the sound a certain "colour".
Low bitrate lossy compression adds a lot of discordant material that creates more of a burbling sound. I wouldn't call that colouration.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #9 –
@Squeller I guess you are joking again, can you try to tolerate different opinions?

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #10 –
@Sunhillow You are right, but MP3's distortions can still be good for me. Thank you for your opinion.

Edit: I like MP3's distortions only if the sampling rate is low.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Klymins on
I like MP3's distortions only if the sampling rate is low.
I very much dislike the sound of music when the upper frequency limit is too low. 11 kHz sampling rate sounds like a telephone connection, Plus the added compression artefacts ... horrifying to me.
Then I really would prefer the Leberwurstschnittchen with pickles
 

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #12 –
@Sunhillow I join you if sinc interpolation is used, but when you use linear interpolation, the upper frequencies are in harmony with the lower frequencies and this makes the sound very nice for me. So, lower sampling rate does not always mean lower cutoff point. Flash player, for example, uses linear interpolation and this is what makes these 16kbps game musics "listenable" for most people (and what makes the good sounds horrifying when they are ripped from the flash game and opened with a standard player). Try listening something with linear interpolation by installing MultiResampler to foobar2000.

Edit: Or, if you want to easily see an example of a game with 16kbps sounds, go to https://archive.org/details/tails-nightmare .

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #13 –
I just prefer that the codecs and bitrates I use don't mess with the original input file according to my ears.
My ears are pretty ok, but I guess the important part here is "don't mess". The only time things get messed with are:
1) Out of my control - the budget hardware I have
2) Within my control - EQing

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #14 –
Thank you!
I think, if I would like some sound colour, I would use an equalizer. What i don't plan to do so far.
For a long time ( I am over 65 now) my amplifier did not even have any tone control and I was totlly happy with it and some DIY KEF speakers.
IMHO stored music has to be as close as possible to the original.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #15 –
@Klymins
I agree with you. Different codecs can introduce different type of coloration.

I can notice it especially on rock and metal genres. It's pretty evident on  album "Rising" by Rainbow band. Too much colors over all the place.

BTW today it's the anniversary of "Rising" album. https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/rainbow/rising/

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #16 –
Quote from: btc on
Different codecs can introduce different type of coloration.

I can notice it especially on rock and metal genres.
Which codecs are these?

To all, especially the creator of this poll:

I fear people here interpret the term "coloration" quite differently.

Coloration (in both vision and acoustics, I would say) occurs when the intensity of certain frequencies in a signal is changed. The purpose of audio codecs, when used according to the developers' intentions, is not to color the sound in any way. Of course, at low bit-rates, audio codecs produce other types of compression artifacts like temporal or spectral smearing, as Sunhillow already mentioned. But at their intended operating rates, they try to represent the original signal as closely as possible, i.e., to maximize quality and fidelity. If a codec colors the sound during compression, there's no way it can achieve high quality and fidelity.

So none of the poll answers make any sense to me.

Quote
... 11025Hz low bitrate MP3's after realizing most Flash games were actually using 11025Hz low bitrate MP3's (they were sounding very good). 11025Hz low bitrate MP3's are easier to listen than the original ones for me.
So you like your audio to be downsampled, which obviously colors the sound because it removes high frequencies (and may even add aliased lower-frequency content). Or put differently, you're using the downsampling/upsampling as an audio effect.

That's perfectly fine with me, but has nothing to do with audio codecs. So sorry for the bluntness, but please don't confuse people with ToS-borderline terms like "good sound color" in the context of audio compression, giving such above-mentioned examples where MP3, a 30-year old codec, was not even operated according to the developers' intentions (32...48 kHz).

Chris
If I don't reply to your reply, it means I agree with you.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #17 –
@C.R.Helmrich Thank you, but I still can prefer 16kbps or 20kbps MP3's over just downsampling to 11025Hz and upsampling to 44100Hz with linear interpolation. I can make another poll about the colors of sampling rates if it'll be good.

Edit: Here's a comparison of 88kbps WAV and 16kbps MP3: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1P45-_G0UyhJP82YqjRUWz7ZIidt7En6F?usp=drive_link ( EndoLoop by nosoapradio.us )

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #18 –
If i wanted to hear something in shitty, degraded quality for some weird reason i'd use a realtime processing software rather than purposefully storing low-quality files on my disk. What if i wanted to use the high quality original material later?
Random digital audio nerd girl

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #19 –
@Meowdori I join you, but I don't have a processing software that well simulates MP3.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #20 –
Apple AAC at CVBR 320 kbps.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #21 –
@C.R.Helmrich
Quote from: C.R.Helmrich on
Which codecs are these?
...
It was sarcasm + troll from my part. I made it evident saying "... by Rainbow band. Too much colors over all the place"  :)
 
Everybody with basic understanding of lossy compression knows that lossy encoders don't introduce coloration.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #22 –
Quote from: btc on
Everybody with basic understanding of lossy compression knows that lossy encoders don't introduce coloration.
Unless the audio is encoded at low bitrates to the point artifacts are audible to even begin with, though it obviously depend on the lossy codec (e.g. MP3, AAC and its variants like xHE-AAC, OGG Vorbis, Opus) that audio is encoded with?

for @Klymins, what does "sound colorization" really mean in the context of artifacts introduced from lossy audio compression at very low bitrates?

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #23 –
Low bitrate artifacts aren't coloration.
Refer to C.R.Helmrich post.

Re: Sound colors of codecs

Reply #24 –
Quote from: btc on
Low bitrate artifacts aren't coloration.
Refer to C.R.Helmrich post.
Oh, changed my mind (even at low bitrates, lossy compression artifacts aren't "colorize" the sound though it doesn't mean we can't use that to apply "deep fried" meme effect to audio) but what I don't get is what @Klymins actually meant by "sound color" right?