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Topic: Dynamic Range plugin (Read 27095 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #75 –
Many thanks Case now I can finally move to 64bit FB2K!!

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #76 –
Uploaded a new version and also published it on the official repository: https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dr_meter.
Mainly improvements to the log writing, written average bitrate now matches foobar as it's properly weighted based on track lengths. Length info gets written even for tracks that don't report length to foobar as exact frame count is stored during scanning. And if album consists of various audio formats all the different formats will be listed at the bottom info section.

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #77 –
I love this so much! Thanks for all your work on this (and other components) @Case.

After running DR Meter on an album, I see this:


Would it be possible to get all this data written to tags or to a log file (or both)?

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #78 –
Could someone please write down what these parameters mean?
(FL) (FR) (FC) (LFE) (BL) (BR)

How to read it? When is it good and when is not good, Does more mean better sound or does as less means better sound?

This is the result of scanning my CD
X

Quote
foobar2000 v2.1.5 / DR Meter v0.4
log date: 2024-05-18 19:57:54

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Ian Gillan / Dreamcatcher
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8       -0.88 dB   -11.37 dB      5:22 01-Chandra's Coriander
DR10      -0.97 dB   -12.83 dB      3:59 02-Prima Donna
DR8       -0.89 dB   -10.81 dB      4:14 03-All In My Mind
DR12      -0.76 dB   -13.77 dB      3:33 04-That's Why God Is Singin' The Blues
DR9       -0.83 dB   -11.68 dB      2:51 05-Gunga Din
DR9       -0.57 dB   -12.18 dB      4:46 06-Hard On You
DR10      -0.75 dB   -12.68 dB      3:54 07-Sleepy Warm
DR10      -0.57 dB   -12.44 dB      3:48 08-Country Mile
DR9       -0.69 dB   -12.05 dB      4:10 09-You Sold My Love For A Song
DR8       -0.87 dB   -11.11 dB      4:28 10-A Day Late 'N' A Dollar Short
DR8       -0.80 dB   -10.48 dB      4:54 11-Sugar Plum
DR13      -1.01 dB   -16.33 dB      3:41 12-Anyway You Want Me (That's How I Will Be)
DR10      -0.57 dB   -12.96 dB      4:40 13-High Ground
DR11      -1.14 dB   -14.58 dB      4:08 14-Sleepy Warm (Alternative Version)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  14
Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           927 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

Help me understand this, I am a biologist not a sound engineer  :o

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #79 –
Quote from: Tropoje on
Could someone please write down what these parameters mean?
(FL) (FR) (FC) (LFE) (BL) (BR)

How to read it? When is it good and when is not good, Does more mean better sound or does as less means better sound?

This is the result of scanning my CD
[attach type=thumb]30717[/attach]

Quote
foobar2000 v2.1.5 / DR Meter v0.4
log date: 2024-05-18 19:57:54

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Ian Gillan / Dreamcatcher
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8       -0.88 dB   -11.37 dB      5:22 01-Chandra's Coriander
DR10      -0.97 dB   -12.83 dB      3:59 02-Prima Donna
DR8       -0.89 dB   -10.81 dB      4:14 03-All In My Mind
DR12      -0.76 dB   -13.77 dB      3:33 04-That's Why God Is Singin' The Blues
DR9       -0.83 dB   -11.68 dB      2:51 05-Gunga Din
DR9       -0.57 dB   -12.18 dB      4:46 06-Hard On You
DR10      -0.75 dB   -12.68 dB      3:54 07-Sleepy Warm
DR10      -0.57 dB   -12.44 dB      3:48 08-Country Mile
DR9       -0.69 dB   -12.05 dB      4:10 09-You Sold My Love For A Song
DR8       -0.87 dB   -11.11 dB      4:28 10-A Day Late 'N' A Dollar Short
DR8       -0.80 dB   -10.48 dB      4:54 11-Sugar Plum
DR13      -1.01 dB   -16.33 dB      3:41 12-Anyway You Want Me (That's How I Will Be)
DR10      -0.57 dB   -12.96 dB      4:40 13-High Ground
DR11      -1.14 dB   -14.58 dB      4:08 14-Sleepy Warm (Alternative Version)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  14
Official DR value: DR10

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           927 kbps
Codec:             FLAC
================================================================================

Help me understand this, I am a biologist not a sound engineer  :o

LOL.

FL = Front Left
FR = Front Right
FC = Front Center
LFE = Subwoofer
BL  = Back Left
BR = Back Right
SL = Side Left
SR = Side Right

It is the mapping of your audio.

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Defender on
Quote from: mexx on
I don't have the True Paek Scanner installed, just foo_dr_meter.

Truepeak scanner is a one stop shop. You can use it instead of replay scanner as well. So just one scan and you have all truepeak, replaygain, clipping, lra and dr in your tags. Of course you can disable what you don't want.

Is DR Meter now redundant with True Peak Scanner? Meaning that all of the functionality of DR Meter is now present in True Peak Scanner?

Thanks!

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #81 –
Quote from: bamajon1974 on
Quote from: Defender on
Quote from: mexx on
I don't have the True Paek Scanner installed, just foo_dr_meter.

Truepeak scanner is a one stop shop. You can use it instead of replay scanner as well. So just one scan and you have all truepeak, replaygain, clipping, lra and dr in your tags. Of course you can disable what you don't want.

Is DR Meter now redundant with True Peak Scanner? Meaning that all of the functionality of DR Meter is now present in True Peak Scanner?

Thanks!

The only thing that has not been implemented in the current version of Truepeak Scanner is writing the foo_dr.txt file.

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #82 –
Quote from: Defender on
Quote from: bamajon1974 on
Quote from: Defender on
Quote from: mexx on
I don't have the True Paek Scanner installed, just foo_dr_meter.

Truepeak scanner is a one stop shop. You can use it instead of replay scanner as well. So just one scan and you have all truepeak, replaygain, clipping, lra and dr in your tags. Of course you can disable what you don't want.

Is DR Meter now redundant with True Peak Scanner? Meaning that all of the functionality of DR Meter is now present in True Peak Scanner?

Thanks!

The only thing that has not been implemented in the current version of Truepeak Scanner is writing the foo_dr.txt file.

That's what I needed to know! Thank you!

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #83 –
Completely from my daily experience (mastering engineer)
Note, the DR meter doesn't work super well with Classical and complex material.  But that's ok.

DR is their DR value, it represents how loud humans will think this is. 
RMS - the average loudness of the entire file.  This is a textbook definition, so it doesn't account for silence and dynamics.  The AES (Audio Engineering Society) Standard for RMS is the RMS value -3
Peak - Is the maximum value of any sample in the file.
LUFS - Loudness Units Full Scale - an international standard that is similar to DR. It's used to validate loudness for compliance issues for things like Broadcast, TV, Movies

DR Levels you will encounter as of this writing:

12 - 10 Folk
11 - Jazz
10 - Instrumentals, Blue Grass
9 - Old School Country
8 - Things with dynamics.  This is the smallest house on loud street.  Most genres sound good here in terms of dynamics.  If you want louder use the volume knob.
7 - Rock, Classic Rock, half of Alternative,
6 - Pop Radio, Pop Country, Contemporary R&B, Metal
5 - NuMetal, Dark Metal, Speed Metal, Rap and Hip Hop (distortion becomes apparent here for many recordings)
4 - EDM (There is distortion but the audience doesn't care)
3 + Well, the distortion is noticeable to even non sophisticated listeners, also at these point most speakers can't resolve this, speaker damage is likely at high volumes over extended time periods.

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #85 –
Quote from: darkflame23 on
Exactly, LUFS-I and PLR are industry standard measurements for perceived loudness of programme material., DR was only ever used by an obsolete component and an obsolete website.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.  MAAT Digital obtained the rights to the DR intellectual property from Pleasaurize and immediately issued the plug-in meter as well as the off line stats generator.  LUFS may be standard, but it fails to accurately represent some genres of music, which is why DR is useful.  Conversely, you can have a record with wildly differing DRs but the LUFSi helps get things consistent for the client, which I'm sure you deal with.

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #86 –
Quote from: darkflame23 on
IMHO completely unnecessary now we have True Peak, LUFS-I and PLR available natively in Foobar.

Hi Mr. “darkflame,”

The BS.1770 metrics to which you refer, True Peak and LRA (as expressed in LUFS-I; LUFS is a unit of measure) were never designed to represent subjective or perceived loudness. In a digital broadcast environment, LRA is a standardized dynamic range measurement, but it is tailored specifically for a particular purpose; the algorithmic control of playback gain to provide uniform subjective loudness across all broadcast program content. That standardized measurement is LRA or Loudness Range, and is part of the ITU-R BS.1770 family of recommendations ( as recommended by the ploud expert group) used by content providers, distributors, and hardware manufacturers to automatically reproduce all broadcast audio content at a similarly perceived loudness.

LRA was designed to reflect the deviation of loudness events primarily for broadcast applications. Unfortunately, LRA isn’t ideal for evaluating the subjective loudness of pop and other styles of music since most of recorded music happens in a range of amplitude which is explicitly ignored by the mandated LRA algorithm. LRA is a “weighted” or purposefully skewed measurement, designed to force “interstitials” or short duration content, usually advertisements, into a similar perceived loudness as that to the “program” or long–form content that surrounds them. For good or ill, BS.1770 has come to be thought of as The Path to subjective loudness control of all audio, even of music, even though it was designed to crush television commercials that were too loud.

As to Crest Factor and PLR, there is no standard measurement method. So, different manufacturer’s meters and algorithms display varying results, with each showing its own interpretation of the same audio source. As an example, many use RMS instead of Short–term LU or Loudness Units. The difference between PLR and DRi (integrated DR Dynamic Range) is simple: PLR is the difference between peak and average, and is not standardized, while DRi is always, repeatably DR. The i in DRi stands for integrated in the same way that the I in LUFS–I also stands for integrated. That is, integrated or “windowed” over time; a rolling integration. Also, DRi ignores low amplitude information, so called “background loudness,” for the sake of a more predictable measurement result. That is the opposite of LRA, which ignores the highest amplitude information. Plus, the DR algorithm incorporates additional processing for meaningful measurement of the dynamic integrity and dynamic density of popular music.

Lastly, for easy understanding and comparison, official DRi is always an integer value. Note that the Foobar plug–in does not perform either an LRA nor a DRi measurement. BTW, neither does Roon!

P.S. — True Peak or “TP” has absolute nothing to do with perceived loudness in the human perception sense, or Loudness in the 1770 sense. The human ear cannot detect True Peaks! TP was designed to prevent, by way of accurate measurement, DAC overloads and subsequent distortion due to inter–sample peaks. As with 1770 as a whole, TP is about machine behavior, not human hearing.
OMas 
::  maat.digital  ::  seneschal.net  ::  othermunday.com  ::  audioxpress.com  ::  hifizine.com  ::

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #87 –
Quote from: Treelady on
MAAT Digital obtained the rights to the DR intellectual property from Pleasaurize and immediately issued the plug-in meter as well as the off line stats generator.  LUFS may be standard, but it fails to accurately represent some genres of music, which is why DR is useful.

Yup! We are the guys who created the PMF back in the day. I was a board member along with Karl Maria Brandenburg, and my MAAT co–founder Friedemann Tischmeyer was the PMF’s creator. Friedemann is a member of the ploud group that formulated 1770. We designed and launched the DRi standard to provide an easy to understand and repeatable measurement method to represent the perceived loudness of pop music.
OMas 
::  maat.digital  ::  seneschal.net  ::  othermunday.com  ::  audioxpress.com  ::  hifizine.com  ::

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #88 –
Hey, it's all good! We now have DR built into Foobar natively, with this component (and the True Peak Scanner), so can use what we need. It's brilliant for mastering as I can get an instant readout of many different variables, track to track. Well done Cae. Does the True Peak Scanner now make this DR component redundant?

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #89 –
Are there any non-pseudo scientific papers about this DR meter?
Please remove my account from this forum.

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #92 –
Quote from: darkflame23 on
Quote from: foobrik on
Quote from: darkflame23 on
Does the True Peak Scanner now make this DR component redundant?
No 8)

What are the features of this DR component which are not included in the new True Peak Scanner then?
Someone needs a simples dynamic range meter, with the ability to record a log file. + truepeak does not show rms and peak

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #93 –
Quote from: foobrik on
Someone needs a simples dynamic range meter, with the ability to record a log file. + truepeak does not show rms and peak

Our DROffline and DROffline MkII are the two successors to the original TT-DR Offline from way back when. DROffline, now in version 2.2.2, is a modern version of the original. DROffline MkII includes all the original functionality plus BS.1770, PSR and the ability to handle FLAC and ALAC. You can find more info on the MAAT.digital website.

The original TT-DR Meter could not measure DRi, it could only estimate. DRMeter MkII can measure.
OMas 
::  maat.digital  ::  seneschal.net  ::  othermunday.com  ::  audioxpress.com  ::  hifizine.com  ::

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #94 –
DROffline MkII v2.2.3  ;)
EZ CD Audio Converter

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #95 –
Yup, the MkII version is at 2.2.3. DROffline MkII is a much more modern and complete product relative to the OG DROffline. When we built DROffline, we wanted to replicate the TT ancestor as closely as possible while making it 64 bit, 384k-capable, et cetera. The MkII version has all the modern stuff added, and the future MkIII will have a bunch of new functionality.
OMas 
::  maat.digital  ::  seneschal.net  ::  othermunday.com  ::  audioxpress.com  ::  hifizine.com  ::

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #97 –
Quote from: foobrik on
It does not support wavpack and ape formats.

Indeed. If we do add those features, we know where to look for beta testers! I have to ask…both of those formats are not as widely adopted as FLAC, so why use them? They offer no particular advantage and, in the case of Monkey’s Audio, the decoder has a relatively high CPU utilization. Higher utilization usually translates into higher output jitter. Has it become a legacy choice, where you started with those formats and stuck with them due to inertia? Or was it something else? Also, would you find a background lossless–to–lossless batch transcoder useful? APE to FLAC, for instance?
OMas 
::  maat.digital  ::  seneschal.net  ::  othermunday.com  ::  audioxpress.com  ::  hifizine.com  ::

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #98 –
Quote from: darkflame23 on
We now have DR built into Foobar natively, with this component (and the True Peak Scanner), so can use what we need. It's brilliant for mastering as I can get an instant readout of many different variables, track to track.

Since you’re a mastering engineer, I have to remind you that foobar’s “DR” plug–in is an approximation.
OMas 
::  maat.digital  ::  seneschal.net  ::  othermunday.com  ::  audioxpress.com  ::  hifizine.com  ::

Re: Dynamic Range plugin

Reply #99 –
WavPack and Monkey's have some DAW plugins. Especially WavPack could be very fast in such applications, since it now can multi-thread both encoding and decoding individual files.