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Topic: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless? (Read 763 times) previous topic - next topic
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is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

hi
i ripped almost all my originals cd (legit) with eac and lame @ 320k

i was watching this video here

this topic is not related to mp3 and flac or wave or lossy and lossless , and i hope i start this topic is in the right place

i ripped a cd yesterday with foobar the same cd   in mp3 320k with the last lame version , qaac(apple) 320k and opus 320k , flac and waves
i have listen with headphones and i can't hear any differenct
but in the video above there is a trick to hear the only what a lossy encoder in this case mp3 does left

actually i have an old copy of audition , and my subscription ends in gennuary

is there a freeware or a trial software (that can i try) that let me hear only the difference between a track encoded with lame or opus or aac and flac or wave?

thanks
sorry for my poor english

Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #1
I expect you will be able to do that with Audacity:
https://www.audacityteam.org/

But beware: listening to the audio parts that a lossy encoder removed cannot be used to make any statement on the quality of this lossy encoder. The whole point of a lossy encoder is to remove as much as possible while the end results sounds as close as possible to the original.

And at 320kbps bitrates, hearing no differences between these encoders is completely according to expectations.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.

Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #2
I expect you will be able to do that with Audacity:
https://www.audacityteam.org/
hi @PoisonDan
may i know how can i do it with audacity ?

and
Quote
But beware: listening to the audio parts that a lossy encoder removed cannot be used to make any statement on the quality of this lossy encoder. The whole point of a lossy encoder is to remove as much as possible while the end results sounds as close as possible to the original.
is a non sense litening the audio parts removed by lame or opus ,isn't ?
lame adds always silence at the beginning of the track, not sure about apple aac/mp4 or opus
thanks PoisonDan

Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #3
Quote
may i know how can i do it with audacity ?
Open or import one of the files.   Then import  the second file.

Select/highlight one of the files (it doesn't matter which one) and apply the Invert  effect.

Then export  the audio.

The two tracks will be mixed.     Mixing is done by summation, and adding a negative is the same as subtraction.

But as Dan says, this is not useful.    The "sound of the difference" is NOT the same as "the difference of the sound".

If you get dead silence, yes, that proves there is no difference.    But if you don't get silence that does NOT prove a difference in sound.

For example, after you try with your lossy files try this:   Open the same file twice and add a little delay to one file by adding a few milliseconds to the beginning of one track.  (You can do that in Audacity by zooming way-in and then use the time-shift tool.)   Obviously that makes no difference in the sound.    Then subtract.  Even though the two tracks/files sound identical the "sound of the difference" will be very-loud and  weird-sounding (comb filtered) result.

Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #4
to figured out the diffrence to evalaute it you must first deduct if you can hear a difference

start by doing a propper ABX test
If you cant pass it.  You dont need to go any further as you dont hear a difference

any different you find by substracting is irrelevant for you
Sven Bent - Denmark

Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #5
Another fun subtraction experiment for you!

Record yourself saying "Hello" twice, or if you're a musician you can record yourself playing the same exact song twice, etc., but it's important to make two truly-separate recordings.

Then try subtracting.  You might be surprised at "the sound of the difference". 

Or you could try something like saying "the color is red" and "the color is green", and subtract one from the other.

Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #6
Hi
i'm performing some tests and  i can't hear the differences
i have used lame 350k , apple AAC/mp3 320k and opus 320k
don't want to go off topic , but about opus and vorbis may i know which does is codec to perfom better for music?

thanks
again sorry for my poor english

Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #7
Quote
don't want to go off topic , but about opus and vorbis may i know which does is codec to perfom better for music?
If you can't hear a difference we can't say one is "better" than the other.    Except, if one is transparent at a lower bitrate we can say that one has better compression.

Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #8
Quote
don't want to go off topic , but about opus and vorbis may i know which does is codec to perfom better for music?
If you can't hear a difference we can't say one is "better" than the other.    Except, if one is transparent at a lower bitrate we can say that one has better compression.
hi DVDdoug , but opus is more update while vorbis seems no more updated
i haven't tested vorbis , just an advise about my tests if better to try opus or vorbis
thanks


Re: is there a way to isolate and listen the differences between lossy and lossless?

Reply #10
I've done this a number of times for various reasons although I don't remember if lossy encoding was ever involved.

Starting with unencoded audio, at the track beginning, zoom in until individual samples are visible. Select a sample very near the beginning and pull it far up or far down, so it is clearly distinguishable from the rest of the samples.

Encode a COPY of the track.

Decode the copy back to wav (or whatever form it started in).

The marked sample should still be easily identifiable in both, whether space has been added by the encoding step or not.

Delete anything before the marked sample in both versions. Now you have two versions that can be aligned perfectly. You can also do this in multi track mode without the deletions, using the marked sample to align the tracks.

Invert one of the tracks.

Mix the two together. Everything that is NOT different from the original will be cancelled in the product. What is left is the difference between the two versions.


 
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