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Topic: Greatest hits differences with original albums (Read 1978 times) previous topic - next topic
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Greatest hits differences with original albums

Here is what I discovered today which surely everyone other than me is aware of. Using Express Rip MP3 32-320kbs vbr v0. Depeche Mode -The Best of Vol. 1, Violator and Ultra are the CDs. Song, It's No Good; CD, Vol 1, 9.26mb 5:58 216kbs. Ultra, 9.36mb 5:58 219kps. Not a big difference but wait. Personal Jesus; Vol 1, 5.93mb 3:47 219kps.  Violator, 7.27mb 4:56 206kps. Big difference. Enjoy the Silence; Vol 1, 6.58mb 4:14 216kps. Violator,  8.68mb 6:12 195kps. Just another lesson for me in my evolving new hobby.

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #1 –
You are probably comparing apples and oranges; the songs can have different masterings, have been normalized or adjusted in gain. All those aspects have impact on the bitrate when encoding.

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Sunzu on
Personal Jesus; Vol 1, 5.93mb 3:47 219kps.  Violator, 7.27mb 4:56 206kps. Big difference. Enjoy the Silence; Vol 1, 6.58mb 4:14 216kps. Violator,  8.68mb 6:12 195kps. Just another lesson for me in my evolving new hobby.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Just to add to @zordaz reply - these 2 tracks (Jesus and Silence) have significantly different mixes, duration, mastering, gain etc between single and album versions and between various issues of the album.

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #3 –
Thanks, now I  noticed a new thing. I ripped music from a live DVD and I have a remaster CD with the exact same performance of a song from that concert. I used the same encoder for both, MP3 vbr V0. The CD version came out 226kbs and the DVD version came out 302. I wonder if that has to do with bit depth.

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #4 –
The CD is Screaming for Vengeance remaster and the bonus song is Devil's Child that is from Live Vengeance '82. When I heard the song on the CD I recognized it right away from the DVD  and realized then that there must be a way to extract audio from a DVD. I finally found a good program to do that and discovered CDs made this way sounded fuller on average than regular CDs (completely subjective). Somewhere I remember reading that DVDs have 24bit depth and CDs are 16 and this was the reason.

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Sunzu on
Thanks, now I  noticed a new thing. I ripped music from a live DVD and I have a remaster CD with the exact same performance of a song from that concert. I used the same encoder for both, MP3 vbr V0. The CD version came out 226kbs and the DVD version came out 302. I wonder if that has to do with bit depth.

Yes, this has to do with bit depth.

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Sunzu on
The CD is Screaming for Vengeance remaster and the bonus song is Devil's Child that is from Live Vengeance '82. When I heard the song on the CD I recognized it right away from the DVD  and realized then that there must be a way to extract audio from a DVD. I finally found a good program to do that and discovered CDs made this way sounded fuller on average than regular CDs (completely subjective). Somewhere I remember reading that DVDs have 24bit depth and CDs are 16 and this was the reason.

A higher bit depth will (in itself) never result in 'fuller sound'.  Please be cautious when suggesting or suspecting things like this on this forum.

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #7 –
Quote from: zordaz on
Quote from: Sunzu on
Thanks, now I  noticed a new thing. I ripped music from a live DVD and I have a remaster CD with the exact same performance of a song from that concert. I used the same encoder for both, MP3 vbr V0. The CD version came out 226kbs and the DVD version came out 302. I wonder if that has to do with bit depth.

Yes, this has to do with bit depth.
Ok, Thanks

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #8 –
Quote from: zordaz on
Yes, this has to do with bit depth.

Since we are talking about MP3, LAME, and VBR, could you explain why do you think that bit depth has any relation with the higher bitrate?

What I would think is that the DVD is ripped at 48Khz and the CD is ripped at 44Khz.
LAME has always been tuned for 44Khz, not for 48Khz. Also, in this case, given the increase of sampling rate and being a live performance which is not necessarily post-processed in studio, I would expect that the bandwidth in there is full of noise, which LAME has to try to store in some way.

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Sunzu on
Somewhere I remember reading that DVDs have 24bit depth and CDs are 16 and this was the reason.
Don’t believe everything you read.

In terms of subjective opinions, they aren’t exactly welcome on this forum.  Yours would be such a case.
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=3974
See rule #8.

Testing this hypothesis is straight forward: you take a 24-bit file, convert it to 16-bit with triangular shaped dither, pad back to 24 bits and then compare them using a proper double-blind protocol. 
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Re: Greatest hits differences with original albums

Reply #11 –
I have found that more than half of the Greatest Hits CDs I own, are the same recording as the original album but have been turned up to a level of having clipping added to the tracks.
You can check for clipping in a wav editor for yourself, if you think there are substantial reasons to worry about size and bit rate differences in songs.
Processed audio in java and python.
 
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