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Topic: Upsampling PCM 768  (Read 6637 times) previous topic - next topic
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Upsampling PCM 768

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum but I use foobar for several years, I wanted to ask you if there is a plugin to do upsampling in pcm up to 768, as I have recently the new dac chord qutest https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/qutest/ that supports the pcm up to 768, I wanted to try how was ...
Thank you

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #1 –
Probably not, but it would be a dumb idea anyway.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #3 –
Hello.
The only reason to upsample previous to send it to the device is if you know the software algorithm is going to do a better job than the hardware. Since this looks to be some "special" hardware (that even allows to select the type of filter), a test would be required to assure this need.
Else, whatever deficiency the software resampler has, will be reproduced by the hardware.

Said that, foobar2000 includes two resamplers by default, accessible from preferences, Playback, DSP Manager, although they only show a range up to 96Khz.  The box is editable, but most probably they are not tuned for higher sampling rates.

I have no idea what they had in mind when they developed this device and targeted it to home use. It would seem the only reason of why they support so high sampling rates is because of DSD.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #7 –
no absolutely not in my ability, but since my dac supports pcm up to 768 and since there are no pcm files at 768 but can only be done through upsampling, I wanted to try, that's all .... None of you use the decoder dsd to send the pcm in dsd? I'm trying and honestly I do not mind the result, as with foobar there is the possibility of upsampling in dsd I thought you could also add an upsampling in pcm that would reach 768 .....

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Nejiro on
So those of Chord are stupid who have marketed a device specifically for upsampling at 768?


They know their target audience very well.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #10 –
As [JAZ] said the player bundles resamplers that allow performing your experiment. If the device works as it should you won't hear any difference in the sound.

Note that you can't use the default DirectSound output method in foobar2000 for the test as DS is limited to 200 kHz. If you play anything higher the output component will automatically resample the signal to a supported sample rate. You'll need to use WASAPI or ASIO output for the test.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Nejiro on
Quote from: saratoga on
Probably not, but it would be a dumb idea anyway.



So those of Chord are stupid who have marketed a device specifically for upsampling at 768?

Well since you bought it, I'd say their marketing is quite smart :)

Any DAC costing more than 1-2 dollars runs at 1-10MHz internally.  Typical oversampling ratio is 128x on basic devices.  48kHz x 128 = 6144 kHz.  Alternatively, you can take the same design, lower the oversampling ratio to 16x and raise the input sampling rate to 768 Khz and the frequency will be exactly the same (768 KHz x 16 = 6144 kHz).  Even though nothing has changed, you can put 768 kHz on the box and turn a $2 design into  $1000 product. 

That's 500 times the profit, which makes for a very smart business, just so long as your customers don't catch on.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #12 –
It helps that the lion's share of audiophiles are placebophiles who have zero clue about how the technology works (or doesn't work), zero clue about human hearing, sensory override and cognitive steering. These last two terms are likely not correct, but I'm capable of describing what they mean.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Nejiro on
I wanted to ask you if there is a plugin to do upsampling in pcm up to 768
I'm going to release one that upsamples to 1.536 GHz in early April of next year if you can wait.

Btw, ignore what greynol said about audiophiles needing to know about technology, hearing and all that.
An audiophiles primary consultant on electro-acoustic and perceptual science should be themselves, because they have very good brains and have said a lot of things.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #14 –
Here's link for some loudspeakers supporting 2.45 GHz. To limit waves dissipation, audiophiles are encouraged to listen with their heads inside.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #15 –
Quote from: ajinfla on



I'm going to release one that upsamples to 1.536 GHz in early April of next year if you can wait.


Thank you so much, of course I can wait, there is no hurry, of course if it will come out even better first :D

However, I do not understand all these criticisms of upsampling and I do not know if these people speak with knowledge of the facts and if things have tried or speak only to talk .... For example HQ-Player which is one of the most used programs by audiophiles is famous for upsampling and the many filters that it makes available ....

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Nejiro on
However, I do not understand all these criticisms of upsampling

Upsampling is just another word for oversampling, which almost all quality hardware does.  It isn't that upsampling is bad (it is not, and if you think people said that, read again), it is that the way you think you are going to do it is useless and will accomplish nothing. 

Quote from: Nejiro on
For example HQ-Player which is one of the most used programs by audiophiles is famous for upsampling and the many filters that it makes available ....

I don't think that is famous.  I've never heard of it, and searching the forums only brings up a single mention in a thread about audio scams.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Nejiro on
one of the most used programs by audiophiles is famous for upsampling
They have very good brains and they've heard a lot of things too.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #18 –
It's a very pointless kind of DAC.  Some 3rd party resamplers "foo_dsp_resampler" (SoX) "foo_dsp_src_resampler" (SRC) for foobar2000 will let you use that rate providing everything else in the chain actually supports the rate (operating system you're using, drivers, codec chip).  You'd be better off using either 44.1 KHz or 48 KHz for the non-deceptive DACs though.

Anyway you should watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

Also read this article: https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #19 –
There you go, Nejiro. You have the tools at hand. Give it a try and let us know the results.  Seriously, please, let us know. I've heard a lot people say how inadequate 384k is for DSD.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #20 –
Are you sure that foo dsp resampler arrives at 768, seeing them I think it arrives at 96 ..... or am I wrong?

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #21 –
I just verified and the SoX resampler component handles resampling from 44.1 kHz to 768 kHz just fine. So does PPHS and SRC resamplers. The SSRC resampler however seems to have hard-coded limit at 384 kHz.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #22 –
Quote
https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/qutest/

Is it just an Oversampling DAC/ Reconstruction Filter? Or, am I missing something?

Quote
Even though nothing has changed, you can put 768 kHz on the box and turn a $2 design into  $1000 product.

That's good marketing. However, given that its core is PLD based, there'll be lots of engineering involved keeping the EMI levels low enough...
In the beginning there was ONLY noise, then came the signal.

Re: Upsampling PCM 768

Reply #23 –
I purchased Audirect ATOM3 less than $100 reasonable USB DAC.
It supports DSD512, and 768kHz PCM (without petit-noise). (PCM tested on JRiver MediaCenter 31 evaluate)
But foobar2000 v2.0 supports up-sampling rate to 384kHz.
In future, is support 768kHz?
or is support PCM to DSD512 up-sampling convert?