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TVBR vs CVBR

Hi,
After a lot of abx, i will convert all my music to aac 224k.
160 is the lower for me, i can abx easly at 128, 192 is good, so for safer i choose 224).
And i will keep the lossless files of course ;)
I try tbvr and cbvr and i can't listen the diferrence....
So, what is better tbvr or cbvr ?
(itunes + qaac)

Sorry for my bad english)
Thanks


Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #2
Like i say, at 128kps i can abx almost all the musics (lag of high frequencies) , at 160 kps, it's much better. and at 192, fully transparent for me.
But to go 'safer', i choose 224k...
256 is overkill i think

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #3
I meant the difference between 96kbps CVBR and TVBR that is aprox 96kbps, is almost negligible.

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #4
I'm afraid there's not a listening test at that high bitrate and the results may not reproduce the results from 96k tests, so you'll have to make own ABX of both modes at this bitrate to be sure. But I bet you won't hear any difference as whatever mode at this bitrate is in the main transparent.

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #5
My collection is 320go of flac.
with CVBR 224: 240 kps
with TVBR 224: 230 kps
Since i don't hear difference, i'll go with TVBR

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #6
TVBR is typically the better of the two given both are pretty much the same sound quality wise (some claim CVBR 'might' have a tiny advantage) but TVBR generally gives smaller files so it's more efficient which makes it the overall better of the two.

I think where CVBR can come in handy at times is at lower bit rates like 96kbps as it seems to limit the encoder from having the bit rate drop too low as looking through my collection, which is 96kbps TVBR (Apple AAC encoded with Foobar2000 QAAC), 53kbps is the lowest and 121kbps was the highest although the average bit rate over all of the files is 93kbps.

but like you said in your post above... you can't really tell the difference so you might as well go with TVBR since it generally uses less bit rate.

there was one song I encoded not long ago that there was one part in a song (when the singer said a certain word at one part in the song) that I could tell the difference between TVBR and CVBR (with CVBR being better but the bit rate was noticeably higher than the TVBR file) but that was at the 96kbps setting and the bit rate between the two tracks was about 20-30kbps between TVBR and CVBR if I recall correctly which probably explained it. but at your super high bit rates I doubt that would occur because at 224kbps is already a bit overkill as it seems, given tests around here, 192kbps is about the max dang near everyone would need.

if you don't mind me asking...

what headphones are you using and how old are you? ; I say that because it seems only those quite young can hear the super fine detail or maybe it partially comes back to fancy headphones etc.

also, when you ABX the music @ 128kbps and 160kbps etc is it something you can detect fairly quickly or does it take a good amount of effort to notice differences between say 128kbps to 160kbps? ; I am sort of wondering what you personally would consider the 'sweet spot' of bit rate? ; it almost seems 160kbps might be your sweet spot given what you said.
For music (especially on-the-go)...
-I suggest Opus @ 96kbps (or... 64kbps minimum, 128kbps maximum). *preferred choice*
-I suggest AAC(Apple) @ 96kbps (q45 TVBR) or 128kbps (q64 TVBR). *secondary choice*
-I use Foobar2000 (/w Encoders Pack etc) to convert FLAC to Opus/AAC(Apple).

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #7
I'm 40 years old.
My setup is:
Cambrige audio Dac Magic Plus > Cambrige Audio 851A >Monitor Audio Silver RS8 or Sennheiser HD600 (all with high quality cable).
I can hear frequency until 19800hz.
128 kps is very easly to abx: no high frequencies
160 kps is harder, but i can abx with a lot of attention.

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #8
@david-lisb

"I can hear frequency until 19800hz."

someone correct me if I am wrong, but ain't that unlikely to still be able to hear that kind of frequency at 40 years old?

"128 kps is very easly to abx: no high frequencies
160 kps is harder, but i can abx with a lot of attention."

I imagine it's because of your $300 headphones that enables you to notice more details?

I am just curious whether you can still notice that 128kbps to 160kbps stuff with a more typical/average set of headphones?

Thanks for the info.
For music (especially on-the-go)...
-I suggest Opus @ 96kbps (or... 64kbps minimum, 128kbps maximum). *preferred choice*
-I suggest AAC(Apple) @ 96kbps (q45 TVBR) or 128kbps (q64 TVBR). *secondary choice*
-I use Foobar2000 (/w Encoders Pack etc) to convert FLAC to Opus/AAC(Apple).

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #9
I imagine it's because of your $300 headphones that enables you to notice more details?

My $300 IEMs only go to 18KHz :D I am 41 and can only hear to 15KHz, also would be nice to see some results of the ABXing from @david-lisb :)

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #10
@probedb

Yeah, I heard something about 15KHz being typical for those in our age bracket. like I don't know how accurate YouTube is but when listening to one of those YouTube videos that supposedly shows the KHz my cut off point was pretty much 15KHz, maybe a hair over that at best on my Klipsch Pro-Media PC speakers. that's why I wondered whether the 19.8KHz claim seems a bit high because ain't that more typical for someone about half our age to hear?

p.s. ill be 39 years old in October.
For music (especially on-the-go)...
-I suggest Opus @ 96kbps (or... 64kbps minimum, 128kbps maximum). *preferred choice*
-I suggest AAC(Apple) @ 96kbps (q45 TVBR) or 128kbps (q64 TVBR). *secondary choice*
-I use Foobar2000 (/w Encoders Pack etc) to convert FLAC to Opus/AAC(Apple).


Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #12
I have made a new try with foobar:
tone://18000,10
tone://19000,10
tone://19800,10

I can easly hear 18khz, 19 khz is a bit harder and 19.8khz is very my limit (at very high volume)

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #13
tone://
I learn new things about fb2k all the time :-o
“It sounded bad to me. Digital. They have digital. What is digital? And it’s very complicated, you have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out.”
- Donald Trump, May 2017

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #14
I learn new things about fb2k all the time :-o
Seems to be a hold-over from Winamp.
Has been working in Winamp since at least 2000, that's when I came across it.

Another handy link was linein://, not sure if that works in fb2k

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #15
19.8KHz would be high for a teenager :D I think I used something like https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php

Based on your link... 15-16kHz is where I can hear sound depending on volume on my Klipsch Pro-Media speakers with the one where the guy is saying each frequency as it descends.

as he's saying the frequency, I don't hear nothing as he's saying 22k, 21k, 20k, 19k, 18k, 17k, until he reaches 16k I can hear, but it's fairly faint, and 15k is more noticeable especially if I have the volume a bit lower as 15k seems to be my general cut off but with volume a bit higher I seem to be able to hear 16k but it's fairly faint as I don't feel confident enough to claim I am hearing anything beyond 16kHz. so that should be a good ball park figure for me. but I wonder if it's possible I could hear a bit more with some decent headphones or not?

on a side note... I see that the site you linked to suggests Superlux HD668B for budget headphones. anyone have any experience with these? ; because it seems those are quite reasonably priced ($44.90) as I am just wondering whether it's a noticeable upgrade vs your average pair of headphones. like enough of a difference to justify shelling out nearly $50 as I figure if there is barely any difference, it's not worth it but if there is a clear difference then it's worth it. that's why it would be nice if I could test these in person as then I would know.

p.s. looking at the Klipsch Pro-Media 2.1 speakers on Amazon it shows, "31 Hz to 20 kHz frequency response range" ; I got the 4.1 setup which I am assuming is basically the same as I don't even have the 4 speakers in use as it's just two with the sub. but anyways, given that info I am assuming my speakers are capable of outputting the higher frequencies, but I just can't hear them assuming that test site is accurate.
For music (especially on-the-go)...
-I suggest Opus @ 96kbps (or... 64kbps minimum, 128kbps maximum). *preferred choice*
-I suggest AAC(Apple) @ 96kbps (q45 TVBR) or 128kbps (q64 TVBR). *secondary choice*
-I use Foobar2000 (/w Encoders Pack etc) to convert FLAC to Opus/AAC(Apple).

Re: TVBR vs CVBR

Reply #16
Also remember those are pure tones, they'll be lost in music etc so your cut-off is likely to be even lower. I prefer IEMs so no experience of over-ear phones.

 
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