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Topic: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd (Read 5535 times) previous topic - next topic
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are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

hi
for xmass , a friend of mine gave me as prent 6 camel remasterd albums

the original cd (not mastered ) they sound good for me , my question is i can't hear great diffrents between them , only i better dinamic ,at least these are my ears
i have used an exansive marantz cd player with expansive sennheiser & grado headphone  and again for my ears there is really a light better dynamic

i wanted to rip them and compare
my question is do you think many audio remastered relese are worth to buy? Or are only remastered working with an equalizer ?

i add 2 screenshots about only 2 tracks ,Camel   Slow Yourself Down
honesly i like more the original recording

original track


remastered 2009



spectrogram
original

remastered


ripped with eac and wave 44.1 16bit they look the same
can you tell me what do you think?
thanks

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #1 –
Without 30 second audio samples it's difficult to tell you exactly how this sounds.

There's some difference visible in the graphs that suggest the remaster is different from the original especially in the part above 16 KHz and the part below 1 KHz.

If you like the originals better than the remasters then the remasters are not worth buying and vice versa.

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Chibisteven on
Without 30 second audio samples it's difficult to tell you exactly how this sounds.

There's some difference visible in the graphs that suggest the remaster is different from the original especially in the part above 16 KHz and the part below 1 KHz.

If you like the originals better than the remasters then the remasters are not worth buying and vice versa.
hi
i love this forum , i read several times the rules ,even english is not my native language
i don't know if i can upload 30 seconds o more of audio with copyright
about it was a gift
have you seen remastered like this or similar?
thank you so much , i really appreciate your help

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #3 –
Quote from: francesco on
hi
i love this forum , i read several times the rules ,even english is not my native language
i don't know if i can upload 30 seconds o more of audio with copyright
about it was a gift
have you seen remastered like this or similar?
thank you so much , i really appreciate your help

Clips of 30 seconds or less are allowed providing that's all you post of each different master.  Do not post the whole song or album at all.

More than 30 seconds = BAD
Less than 30 seconds = OKAY

Feel free to contact a moderator or administrator of this forum you for clarification on any rules as I'm not a moderator or administrator.

Forum Administrators are:
Dibrom
spoon
CiTay
kode54
Peter

Forum Global Moderators are:
greynol (quite active on the forum)
Synthetic Soul
Kohlrabi
Frank Bicking
db1989
rpop
Jens Rex
Pio2001

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #4 –
You posted spectrograms of lossy encoded files, why? Did you rip them to MP3?

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #5 –
Quote from: lvqcl on
You posted spectrograms of lossy encoded files, why? Did you rip them to MP3?
hi
honestly i have ripped both in flac
thanks

@Chibisteven
hi
should i have to upload 30 sec here or can i upload in other host site?
thanks

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #6 –
The obviously hyper-compressed one was widely sold as being "remastered"   

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #7 –
In most cases remastered CDs are overly compressed and brickwalled but there are few exceptions.
There is this site where you can check dynamic range of different CD releases: dr.loudness-war.info

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Bero1707 on
In most cases remastered CDs are overly compressed and brickwalled but there are few exceptions.
There is this site where you can check dynamic range of different CD releases: dr.loudness-war.info
hi
beautiful site , really , they use a foobar components, i have checked ,seems they have remastered for example the album Camel twice
in the site there is 2002 ,in my cd 2009 ::)
thanks

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #9 –
Quote from: francesco on
hi
should i have to upload 30 sec here or can i upload in other host site?
thanks

You can upload here (recommended).

Click on "Add files by dragging & dropping or selecting them".

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #10 –
Paschal Byrne remastered the 2002 re-releases and I believe Andy Latimer approved them as well. I think this is one of those seldom cases where the remasters are just as dynamic (or more so) than the original CDs.

In any case I only own The Snow Goose Japanese SHM-SACD (I know: laugh it up, folks. It will be worth money soon when it's out of print.) According to the liner notes in English this one was "flat-transfered to DSD from the original tapes in 2013." I can't measure it with the DR meter unless I make an "analog-loophole" copy but it doesn't sound compressed at all.

I personally wouldn't mind getting some of those 2002 remasters in my CD collection. Other than the aforementioned CD I only have a German first pressing of "Camel" and a US "Mirage" on vinyl.
The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #11 –
Most remasters of CDs are just plain bad and much worse than the original version, particularly if the original was released in the late 80s or early 90s (when digital audio wasn't abused to such a degree yet).

If the original release is from the mid-late 90s or later there's a good possibility that it won't make it (much) worse. Just trust your ears. Though the waveform posted by Arnold speaks pretty clearly as well: Killed the dynamics (can't have silent parts in a modern remaster and brickwall limited everything to hell and back...).

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #12 –
Quote from: francesco on
i love this forum , i read several times the rules ,even english is not my native language
It's not mine either.

But if you really do, you should at least do us all a favour and start using a capital "I" instead of "i" (as in "i love this forum") for clarity's and common sense's sake.

Call me old-fashioned, but I find this tendency of lower-casing everything most annoying and usually getting in the way of my wanting to continue reading on/taking such texts seriously. I bet many others might feel the same way too.
Listen to the music, not the media.

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #13 –
I hate the label "digitally remastered" at all. Especially the "DSD remastered" one. ::)

In 99,99%, the recording industry fiddles around with the original recording until it matches the "modern" sound quality. They sound too sterile and too overprocessed to me. They are made to be squeezed through one of those portable bluetooth loudspeaker.

In case of The Rolling Stones, I prever a worn vinyl disk from the 80's over the new remastered CDs. The CD is soulless at all.

So in my opinion, they don't worth to buy. I try to get an old "outdated" version of the CD instead. Most of my favorite CDs still have the -6dB headroom. :))
- I abandoned this account since I didn't find a way to delete it -

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Franky666 on
I hate the label "digitally remastered" at all. Especially the "DSD remastered" one. ::)

In 99,99%, the recording industry fiddles around with the original recording until it matches the "modern" sound quality. They sound too sterile and too overprocessed to me. They are made to be squeezed through one of those portable bluetooth loudspeaker.

In case of The Rolling Stones, I prever a worn vinyl disk from the 80's over the new remastered CDs. The CD is soulless at all.

So in my opinion, they don't worth to buy. I try to get an old "outdated" version of the CD instead. Most of my favorite CDs still have the -6dB headroom. :))
hi me too ,i don't like many cd with digitally remastered ,would like to know what the adio engineer do in the process of remastering

Quote
In case of The Rolling Stones, I prever a worn vinyl disk from the 80's over the new remastered CD
i don't own any rolling stones vinyl ,but i own all the doors , jimi hendrix e led zeppelin  vinyls and i love to listen them ,i liked a lot them more then my cd "remastered"
thanks

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #15 –
The audio engineer uses various filters to "improve" the audio quality or to modernize the sound.

Sadly, they tend to overuse.

Some popular are:
Equalizer: Mostly used to raise bass and treble on older records. (sadly!)
Noise reduction: Removes the background hiss but "hollows" the audio a bit.
Exiters/enhancers: Adds artifical harmonics. Used to bright dull recordings where the original treble is gone.
high- and lowpasses: To remove rumble and hiss-only-treble

Until here, these filters can really improve the quality of old records, if properly used.

Here is the king of quality killer:
Multiband dynamic compressor and hard limiter: The first is used to remove transients from the audio signal. That gives more headroom so you can increase the overall volume. Not enough? Then the hard limiter is used to add clipping that gives one or two additional dB of headroom. If you look to the waveform of the result is looking like a sausage (and sounds like such). In digital world, there is no technical reason to truncate a record into -3dB of dynamic range using such technique.

And sometimes, they try to remove a recording mistake at all cost. A great example is "Elevator Rigby" from the Beatles remasters, where they tried to cut out a misplaced echo in the first verse. That improvement sounds terrible because they weren't able to cut it out completely! I never ever noticed that this was a mistake until that because this was, what I loved in that song....

In the worst case, the original recording is scraped after that process.

Ask Google for "loudness-war", if you want to go deeper into that.

Here is loudness-war in a nutshell: https://stephaniecaffrey.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/screen-shot-2013-03-20-at-19-49-54.png

All these filters are like salt and pepper: Too much and it tastes ugly and somewhat artifical.

Remastering old music is like overpainting a famous painting using neon colors.

I digitalized all the vinyls and did my own remastering on them (with the "good" filters only and only a bit to remove noise without touching the original spirit). I prefer noisy analogue recordings over overprocessed digital audio. :)
- I abandoned this account since I didn't find a way to delete it -

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Franky666 on
The audio engineer uses various filters to "improve" the audio quality or to modernize the sound.

Sadly, they tend to overuse.

Some popular are:
Equalizer: Mostly used to raise bass and treble on older records. (sadly!)
Noise reduction: Removes the background hiss but "hollows" the audio a bit.
Exiters/enhancers: Adds artifical harmonics. Used to bright dull recordings where the original treble is gone.
high- and lowpasses: To remove rumble and hiss-only-treble

hi
I thought filters like elephant voxengo ,or dmg limitess or fabfilter L2 and so on
I know about loudness-war
but is the master really on tape? i mean for example an old record like The Piper at the Gates of Dawn is stored on tapes?
it's something i would always love to know
thanks for you responce

Re: are really remastered cd worth to buy ? in my case the last Camel remasterd cd

Reply #17 –
The audio engineer uses that filter that is best for his purpose. There is no holy grail limiter plugin.

In the past, master tapes were in fact reel-to-reel tapes.

The first ADCs were not good enough to be used for recording or mastering. ;)

But today, a master is a high-res digital file.  ;D

Older CDs have marks like "ADD", "AAD", "DDD" etc. that indicates,  what parts of the production line were analogue or digital.
- I abandoned this account since I didn't find a way to delete it -
 
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