A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

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Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #175 – 2017-12-10 15:47:46

Quote from: mmrkaic on 2017-12-10 15:33:05

Quote
Hydrogenaudio Terms of Service / Notices

8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must -- to the best of their ability -- provide objective support for their claims. Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings. Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.

I have a scientific background (masters in Physics and PhD in economics)

You did not prove the above claim.

Indeed

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #176 – 2017-12-10 15:50:10

Quote from: ajinfla on 2017-12-10 15:47:46

Quote from: mmrkaic on 2017-12-10 15:33:05

Quote
Hydrogenaudio Terms of Service / Notices

8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must -- to the best of their ability -- provide objective support for their claims. Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings. Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.

I have a scientific background (masters in Physics and PhD in economics)

You did not prove the above claim.
Indeed

You are deliberately misquoting me. That should be reported. (But why bother, a waste of time.)

P.S. As regards credentials, nobody here posts photos of their degrees.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #177 – 2017-12-10 15:54:26

Quote from: mmrkaic on 2017-12-10 15:50:10

You are deliberately misquoting me. That should be reported.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #178 – 2017-12-10 17:55:31

Gosh! Before this guy started out his, erm, war/quest/whatever-crap-he-is-at over here, I wouldn't have believed that anyone above 12 could carry out so many shit-throwing battles at so many people at once and still put on a tantrum whenever he has fingers pointed at his pathetic and lame attempts at promoting himself and/or speaking his wacky mind out, as if said people were just picking on him, poor soul.

Oh wait! Yes, I would've:

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #179 – 2017-12-11 19:28:54

Quote from: mmrkaic on 2017-12-10 15:41:23

Incidentally, who is the author of the TOS? Do you happen to know? I mean, is it just the administrator or is it a collective work?

The creator of this forum, who goes by the name Dibrom, posted these terms of service on day one, to let anyone interested in joining/posting that they would not be allowed to get away with things that were being practiced in a previous forum (r3mix). There has not been a need for these terms to be modified in any way since.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #180 – 2017-12-11 23:19:48

OK- I have it recorded. Does this site host sound files?

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #181 – 2017-12-12 06:24:31

Yes - click "Reply", then below the text box for composing your post there's "Add files by dragging & dropping"

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #182 – 2017-12-12 08:42:56

Quote from: Atmasphere on 2017-12-11 23:19:48

OK- I have it recorded. Does this site host sound files?

Please remember - do NOT encode them with a lossy codec (eg MP3). Lossy codecs can smear vinyl ticks. Use something like FLAC.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #183 – 2017-12-12 13:33:37

Quote from: cliveb on 2017-12-12 08:42:56

Lossy codecs can smear vinyl ticks.

So no MQA either then?

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #184 – 2017-12-12 19:48:53

Quote from: eric.w on 2017-12-12 06:24:31

Yes - click "Reply", then below the text box for composing your post there's "Add files by dragging & dropping"

Thanks- I tried that but the file seems to be too large- 31.8MB as a WAV file and 13.2 as a FLAC

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #185 – 2017-12-12 19:58:22

I believe Uploads section allows that size. Create a new topic and post the sample there.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #186 – 2017-12-12 21:18:02

Quote from: Case on 2017-12-12 19:58:22

I believe Uploads section allows that size. Create a new topic and post the sample there.

That does not work either- same restrictions apply.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #187 – 2017-12-12 21:42:43

The description says "Restrictions: 16 per post, maximum total size 40,960 KB, maximum individual size 40,960 KB"

I just uploaded 30 MB, so it works: https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,115100.0.html

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #188 – 2017-12-12 22:34:34

Quote from: danadam on 2017-12-12 21:42:43

The description says "Restrictions: 16 per post, maximum total size 40,960 KB, maximum individual size 40,960 KB"

I just uploaded 30 MB, so it works: https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,115100.0.html

I don't know how you got away with it then- isn't 30MB more than 41KB?? It errors me off, complaining that the file size is too large.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #189 – 2017-12-12 23:05:12

I could host any files in my cloud and post the links if you like.
You could also use winrar or such to make a multi part archive, compressed or not. That should do the trick just fine.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #190 – 2017-12-13 01:12:03

Quote from: Atmasphere on 2017-12-12 22:34:34

isn't 30MB more than 41KB??

It is, but the limit is 40960 kB, not 41 kB. Comma usually is not a decimal mark in english, point "." is. But I'd agree that using comma in that message was not the best of ideas.

@Admins Also the name of the file has to contain a dot, otherwise nothing happens and the browser console shows:

Code: [Select]

TypeError: /(?:\.([^.]+))?$/.exec(...)[1] is undefined  hive-adfa3f58d8e943a7b9def2647ae4b1ff524b227c.js:313:81

(Firefox 57, Linux)

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #191 – 2017-12-13 03:27:08

As there appears to be a hiatus in receiving the eagerly awaited file i'll fill the void with my trivia. My first experience with vinyl was when my two years older brother bought a second hand Dansette Delux player which then necessitated buying the medium. It was great and thoroughly enjoyed the experience and it was only in later years that I purchase a better system made of a single brand of separate components including a deck. The speaker cabinets which I still own but don't use were in kit form but as my partner at the time worked for Philips the makers, they took it upon themselves to assemble them for me. At first I got real pleasure from this far and away "improved" sound but after a while I became irritated with the pops and crackles even after handling the records with care. When a friend demonstrated the first cd player I had seen it blew me away with the versatility and ease of use. There was also a cassette deck but I cannot remember purchasing a single prerecorded tape and the process of copying to tape did my head in mostly. I have a pile of vinyl in the wardrobe which is never used, a deck which is never used and cannot think why it ever will. When I visit a couple of friends with vinyl I love to listen, the sound is great but the effort going into preserving and playing it is in my view insane not to mention the cost, but they love it. It reminds me of when I bought my first fishing rod, fibreglass rods were available but I went for the split cane version it just looked a whole lot better to me I was about 12.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #192 – 2017-12-13 03:41:05

You uploaded the file to a post, then it was deleted? I don't know who deleted it, as there's no logged action of anyone deleting it.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #193 – 2017-12-13 04:28:48

Quote from: kode54 on 2017-12-13 03:41:05

You uploaded the file to a post, then it was deleted?

No.

After clicking "selecting them" a file browser shows up. If I select a file with a dot in its name then a progress bar shows up and uploading starts, like in the screenshot in the attachment. That's fine. But if I select a file without any dots (in another words, without extension) then nothing happens, progress bar doesn't show up and there is no info/feedback to the user what happened. The only thing is that error in the browser console that I posted earlier.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #194 – 2017-12-13 08:17:12

I was responding to @Atmasphere , who uploaded their FLAC, but the post is somehow in the deleted posts bin, along with the attachment.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #195 – 2017-12-13 11:11:12

I opbtained an allegedly exceptionally clean needle drop that was brought forward by a LP advocate. (Supertramp, "Give A Little Bit")

In an earlier analysis, there were unmistakable artifacts of a 48 KHz digital encoding step that were visible during a 0.5 second quiet time at the beginning of the track. The question then becomes at what step in the process did the digitization happen?

I realized that if the digital artifacts were masked by LP nonlinear distortion artifacts, then that would be solid evidence that a 48 KHz digitization step that happened during production was the source of these digital artifacts.

So, to clarify the situation, I did an analysis of one of the loud passages on the LP.

The attachment shows the digital artifacts as a green line, which being very small are most obvious during the brief (0.5 second) silence at the beginning of the track.

The red line represents the analysis of the loud passage.

Since the digital artifacts are totally masked during the loud passage, the 48 KHz digitization happened during production, and not after the LP was played.

Because the master was digitized at 48 KHz, anything in the plot above 24 KHz during the loud passage is an artifact of the LP process. I believe that this sheds some light on reports of > 20 KHz signals on LPs: They are likely artifacts of nonlinier distortion, and exist even when all audio signals > 20 KHz are forcably removed from the audio signal.

Re: A day of vinyl -- a reminder of inferior technology

Reply #196 – 2017-12-13 11:37:01

Quote from: Paul_ 2012 on 2017-12-13 03:27:08

As there appears to be a hiatus in receiving the eagerly awaited file i'll fill the void with my trivia. My first experience with vinyl was when my two years older brother bought a second hand Dansette Delux player which then necessitated buying the medium. It was great and thoroughly enjoyed the experience and it was only in later years that I purchase a better system made of a single brand of separate components including a deck. The speaker cabinets which I still own but don't use were in kit form but as my partner at the time worked for Philips the makers, they took it upon themselves to assemble them for me. At first I got real pleasure from this far and away "improved" sound but after a while I became irritated with the pops and crackles even after handling the records with care. When a friend demonstrated the first cd player I had seen it blew me away with the versatility and ease of use. There was also a cassette deck but I cannot remember purchasing a single prerecorded tape and the process of copying to tape did my head in mostly. I have a pile of vinyl in the wardrobe which is never used, a deck which is never used and cannot think why it ever will. When I visit a couple of friends with vinyl I love to listen, the sound is great but the effort going into preserving and playing it is in my view insane not to mention the cost, but they love it. It reminds me of when I bought my first fishing rod, fibreglass rods were available but I went for the split cane version it just looked a whole lot better to me I was about 12.

My experience is similar, starting off on much the same player. I graduated to a second-hand Thorens TD150 (still have it) and better gear later on and bought vinyl because there was nothing better back then. I also embraced the CD, both for convenience and for sound quality, as soon as the stuff became affordable.

Over the years, I've heard probably thousands of LPs and singles, played on dozens of different systems and I don't think I've ever heard a whole record tick and pop-free, whether new, cleaned, cared-for or any other possibility.

I'll call BS on the "stable pre-amp" theory, it doesn't stand up to logic or evidence. The implication of it would be that every pre-amp I've ever heard was UNstable. Now, I'm happy to accept that some audio gear was (and is) of dubious design and I've certainly heard some of it but to suggest that most designers don't understand the concepts and manage to produce unstable designs seems rather unlikely. Furthermore, such instability would probably have to be borderline in all cases to "set off the instabilities", as claimed, rather than just oscillate continuously.

I'd also call BS on the idea of testing stability with a 5W transmitter nearby and the covers off. A phono pre-amp is, of necessity, a sensitive bit of gear and I'd lay money on 5W of RF worming its way into even the most careful of designs.

I think the call for a couple of minutes of tick and pop-free sample is excessively lenient. I'm reasonably confident, with judicious choices, I could find some amongst my LP recordings (which are not lossless format). A whole side? No chance! Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (Carl Sagan), so let's have a whole LP side, at least.