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Topic: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below? (Read 1787 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #25
Hi there,

I have a (Hi-Fi) CD player that is fussy about the quality of the audio CD's it will play without skipping, stalling etc.  Regular, purchased music CD's play fine, just burnt CD-R's.  The manual says they should be 8X or below. 

I've just bought an LG GE24NU40, because in the specs on the website it listed 4x, 8x and 16x, etc as supported write speeds for CD-Rs.  Now I've tried it and it seems just the same as any other drive (I've now ended up with three) in that around 14-16x is as slow as it goes even if I select 8x.  I've got some special CD-Rs that are designed for slow speed burning, but it's the same.

What does everybody else do?  Should I try looking for a really old external CD drive?  Find some special software (I can't find any)?
Is there any sites where you can tweak the firmware somehow?

I know I could just listen to the music from my computer but it doesn't sound as good, plus I don't want my computer on all the time whirring away when I'm listening to music.

If I had a CD player that wouldn't play some CDs, I'd pitch it because good CD and DVD players that are perfectly good are so cheap and so readily available (and also so inherently inferior and useless).

I'd also be concerned that I'd be tolerating audible defects out of sentimentality for the old girl.

Your claim that there is this magic CD Rega player that uniquely sounds good is unbelievable without better evidence. You may perceive that, but it takes more than an unsubstantiated exceptional claim based on a sighted evaluation to be acceptable around here. You know, around here we don't mess with kid stuff, right?

Frankly, its been years since I've actually listened to a CD played on a CD or DVD player.

I have a number of optical disc players stashed, but only one of them, the Panasonic BD player is actually hooked up and will power up if you try to turn it on. I only use it to play BD-videos.  Its only connection to the rest of the system is HDMI.

I rip every CD I obtain and play the resulting files on one of my digital audio players.

I don't know if you realize that CD players are the worst way to play CDs because they don't do retries if they encounter read errors like a proper ripping program does, but instead just try to cover the mess up?

  • 2tec
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #26
What does everybody else do?  Should I try looking for a really old external CD drive?  Find some special software (I can't find any)?
Is there any sites where you can tweak the firmware somehow?

You might try looking for a Plextor drive that supports PowerRec or VariRec

"Plextor's new DVD writer also features their VariRec, or Variable Recording, technology. This technology not only improves the quality of recorded audio and data by minimizing jitter and reducing error rates, it also allows the user to manually adjust the drive's laser power." ~ http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/plextor-px-716a-16x-dvdrw/features.html
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

  • 2tec
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #27
I don't know if you realize that CD players are the worst way to play CDs because they don't do retries if they encounter read errors like a proper ripping program does, but instead just try to cover the mess up?
With all due respect, error correction aside, is it possible some CD players may sound "better" because they output higher signal levels and can drive systems to louder volumes, therefore the perceived quality may seem greater?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #28
I don't know if you realize that CD players are the worst way to play CDs because they don't do retries if they encounter read errors like a proper ripping program does, but instead just try to cover the mess up?
With all due respect, error correction aside, is it possible some CD players may sound "better" because they output higher signal levels and can drive systems to louder volumes, therefore the perceived quality may seem greater?

I think I can see where you are headed.

IME many audiophiles are so shallow in their understanding of audio system setup and operation that they make those kinds of mistakes.

Relevant facts may include the fact that a typical component CD player's voltage output at digital FS is on the order of 2 or 2.5 volts RMS, while most consumer PC audio interfaces output about 1 volt under similar conditions.   This is a 6 or 8 dB difference.

Most component integrated amps and preamps can be driven to full output with signals as low as 0.2 volts or 200 millivolts.

If one is clever or brave enough to simply advance the volume control a little further clockwise, the amp can be driven to full rated output and beyond by even the lesser 1 volt output of the PC. 

Thus, claims of a sonically precarious piece of gear sounding better than one that actually operates in a more ideal manner may be heard. 

ABX testing includes level matching, and are not so easily deceived.  Of course, to match levels one might have to spend a few dollars on a DVM, and perhaps more significantly learn how to operate it and interpret its evidence. 

In the face of massive audiophile peer pressure to not be a "Meter Reader", logic and reason are set aside.

  • DVDdoug
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #29
Quote
I've bought an old Teac IDE drive that writes CD's only that has the 4x and 8x CLV modes for less than £10, so if that improves things I'll post on that too. 
I think the smart thing would be to buy a new CD player (or a DVD or Blu-Ray Player).     You can buy an inexpensive one and continue to use the old one with commercial CDs if you wish.    And, of course, the new cheaper one will sound better with those hard-to-play burned CDs, since (hopefully) they won't skip.   And, it will probably sound identical to your old one with "good discs".  

If you need analog outputs, make sure any new player you buy has them.   My (inexpensive) Blu-Ray player can play CDs and DVDs, but it doesn't have analog audio outputs.   

  • Destroid
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #30
@DVDdoug
That is definitely true.

I get hung-up on the issue that players have playback issues at all. "Is it the burn speed? The type of CD-R? A combination of both?"

When I send burned audio discs to others and get a report of problem with playback I'm thinking more of how I could do something different.

I have suggested to people with playback issues to try another player or use their computer. For me, the questions remain. I've tried 4x as well. At one point I thought certain players would not like burned CD-R's over "pressed" ones... right until those same finicky players did recognize burned CD-R's instead of giving a tray load error.
"Something bothering you, Mister Spock?"

  • hlloyge
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #31
Well, I've first-hand witnessed the problems CD players have with burned disks at Croatian radio. They wanted to use copied disks to preserve originals, and to make compilations for broadcast. This was some 15 years ago, now they went full digital - but then, they played music from CDs, even tapes and vinyls sometimes.
Anyway, the most used player was TASCAM 401 (I think, I've checked the pictures and it looks like that one) and while it was playing originals well, it had much trouble with CDRs. We tried different combinations of media and burning speed and finally got the combination right - they worked as they should ONLY with Taiyo Yuden or Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation disks (you'll remember them from early days of testing CDRs, they were expensive but good and long lasting) and written at 4x. People who were making these CDRs already had Plextor drives as they were among the best in these days. Later on, as Plextors broke down, other drives were tested and found OK, as long as they could record at 4x speed on that media.

So, I would suggest OP to drop that CD player :) too much hasle. Transport is crap if it can't read CD-R in 2017.

  • Gecko
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #32
I can't fin any mircometrical measurements of the laser engraving deepness in the laquer vs engraving speeds.
The lower the speed is, the higher is the light power transmitted to the laquer surface, the engraving contours are better defined and deeper... resulting in less reading errors.
I don't believe it works like this. The laser's intensity is modulated to transfer a precise amount of energy into the dye. At lower burning speeds, the laser will be less bright. The changes to the dye will be slower. As polemon already pointed out, this may actually produce worse overall results.

Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #33
Lol.  Well, for what it's worth I've just stuck a £10 20-year-old CD-R drive in my computer and burned one 'Higher Quality' CD and one cheap TraxData CD.  Drive burns at 4X max.  Both play perfectly in my bullshit too expensive Audiophool CD player.
Make of that what you will.

[/quote]

Your claim that there is this magic CD Rega player that uniquely sounds good is unbelievable without better evidence. You may perceive that, but it takes more than an unsubstantiated exceptional claim based on a sighted evaluation to be acceptable around here. You know, around here we don't mess with kid stuff, right?

[/quote]

I didn't say that all!  I only said I prefer listening to the CD's because the sound is better coming from the CD player which is closer to my Amp - I didn't put it down to any magic properties of the Rega brand.
In fact I only mentioned the model because I was asked.
All I actually wanted was help with how to find a way of burning the discs slower.

But thanks for your opinion, chum!


  • Fairy
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #34
In the early days I had Plextor drives. These drives were able to burn CD's at low speeds and had many options you could set that enhanced the quality. Later drives were relabeled generic drives unfortunately. You could try to find such a drive. You could be needing an IDE port though.

  • silverprout
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #35
I can't fin any mircometrical measurements of the laser engraving deepness in the laquer vs engraving speeds.
The lower the speed is, the higher is the light power transmitted to the laquer surface, the engraving contours are better defined and deeper... resulting in less reading errors.
I don't believe it works like this. The laser's intensity is modulated to transfer a precise amount of energy into the dye. At lower burning speeds, the laser will be less bright. The changes to the dye will be slower. As polemon already pointed out, this may actually produce worse overall results.

it is depending of too much factors i prefer measurements than speculations.

  • probedb
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Re: Drive or Software for burning Audio CD's at 8X or below?
Reply #36
Also, some players don't like all of the recordable CD formulations. It seems some older players don't like the Azo dye.

This. Not all CD-Rs are the same. Find a site that lists what actual brand/dye etc are used in the CD-Rs as it does make a difference, even though it shouldn't really.