Total Members Voted: 6
Please name me a working DAC I can try that doesn't have audible noise. Not just DAC chip that alone does nothing. A full product that is usable as is.
You believe audible noise is an integral part of a functioning DAC?
Plug headphones into a soundcard that doesn't mute its output when it's unused and you hear noise.For example my X-Fi Titanium HD measures 116 dB SNR in RMAA and in a silent room it can be heard.
He has different polls for different targets so he can see how crazy people are at respective places. I don't visit the other sites but so far I think this place looks quite insane.I don't see harm in not collecting "there is no difference" results. Those won't help with the eventual listening test.
I participated in his poll since it listed difference in noise floor as an option. Noise can be audible in otherwise good sound devices when nothing is playing.
Quote from: Case on 21 March, 2017, 10:03:59 AMPlug headphones into a soundcard that doesn't mute its output when it's unused and you hear noise.For example my X-Fi Titanium HD measures 116 dB SNR in RMAA and in a silent room it can be heard.??
You're missing something.[...]'there is no difference' is not an option
Lots of things 'can be audible' under extreme circumstances. Cranking the volume during 'silence', for example. That doesn't mean the noise matters *at all* during normal volume playback.
Not all headphones isolate you perfectly from the outside world.
It just asks if something is audible.
The poll doesn't ask if something matters or is relevant or even that you have to play music. It just asks if something is audible.
You didn't answer the question, is audible noise inherent with DAC design?
Regarding the X-Fi Titanium HD:1) It doesn't measure 116db SNR2) It doesn't measure 116db SNR in your system.3) You can hear noise with 116db SNROne of those choices seems highly unlikely.
How did you isolate the noise you say you heard, to the DAC?
Should be known to you that you can't beat thermodynamics.
You can hear noise if nothing is covering it.
Try turning volume up in any of your devices.
What do you mean?
No, that isn't known to me why all DACs make audible noise, because of "thermodynamics"....according to you.So for all our benefit, please explain why audible noise is inherent to DACs, because "you can't beat thermodynamics".
Yes, that's your claim. Along with it being caused by your DAC, thus all DACs have audible noise and is a relevant question in the poll. Yet you provide no evidence other than "I said so" and "thermodynamics".
Quote from: Case on 21 March, 2017, 02:54:15 PMTry turning volume up in any of your devices.I have. No audible noise from speakers.
Quote from: Case on 21 March, 2017, 02:54:15 PMWhat do you mean? It means you haven't expanded on your system and how you isolated the noise to the DAC.
Because all analog systems have a noise floor and with sensitive enough equipment/silent enough surroundings/enough amplification it can be heard.
What do you suggest is causing the noise?
Do NwAvGuy's measurements help you prove that analog electronics generate unintentional noise?.
Plug super sensitive headphones in there if you don't believe in noise floors.
Would it be sufficient proof to you if one turns on for example O2 DAC outside any computer, plugs headphones to it, and puts volume loud enough for hissing to be audible?
Quote from: Case on 22 March, 2017, 09:24:27 AMBecause all analog systems have a noise floor and with sensitive enough equipment/silent enough surroundings/enough amplification it can be heard.Evidence please.
Quote from: Case on 22 March, 2017, 09:24:27 AMDo NwAvGuy's measurements help you prove that analog electronics generate unintentional noise?.I read it and it's preaching to choir. It doesn't help your case (no pun intended) whatsoever. Nowhere does it say all analog electronics produce audible noise. In fact, the opposite.
Quote from: Case on 22 March, 2017, 09:24:27 AMPlug super sensitive headphones in there if you don't believe in noise floors.I didn't claim to not believe in noise floors.You claim there is audible noise in all analog systems. Because of "thermodynamics". The evidence for that forthcoming?
Everyone else on the internet knows...
It says the noise is inaudible
I have provided you with links that prove that all electronics have noise, thermal noise being one of the causes. Humans have great hearing and can detect very quiet sounds on their own.
If the noise is not audible on its own with the listener's speakers or headphones then an amplifier can make it audible.
Everyone else on the internet knows that no DAC is perfect and one is lucky to achieve 21 bit real world performance. The rest of the signal is noise. Do you not understand that any noise can be made audible by raising its level?
It says the noise is inaudible with the assumed level restrictions put for playback.
Do I understand correctly that you call DAC noise audible when you can turn up the volume enough to make it audible?
Quotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_(electronics)This only shows that there is noise in electronic systems. It doesn't answer the question whether and when it becomes audible.You don't get what ajinfla is saying. Are you sure it is not you who is being dense?