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Topic: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA? (Read 14364 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Doesn't help other gear you might want to use with it. Better to turn the 48 v off, and better yet if it wasn't there at all.

It there any problem for an OPAMP to drive a capacitive load?
It just seems to overdamp the circuit, i can't see why a low Q should be undesirable  :-\

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #26 –
Quote from: silverprout on
It there any problem for an OPAMP to drive a capacitive load?

Yes, there is a very common problem with the direct connection of a capacitive load to an op amp  to either reduce the stability of an op amp circuit or to make the circuit outright unstable, in which case it oscillates.



Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: silverprout on
It there any problem for an OPAMP to drive a capacitive load?
Yes, there is a very common problem with the direct connection of a capacitive load to an op amp  to either reduce the stability of an op amp circuit or to make the circuit outright unstable, in which case it oscillates.
http://blog.csdn.net/wzk456/article/details/39473275

"Q. How does capacitive loading affect op amp performance?
A. To put it simply, it can turn your amplifier into an oscillator:"

It must be avoided in the design... engineers are aware of that IMHO.

"most often it's an unwanted parasitic"
"a capacitive load affects the op amp's performance"
"don't expect to get the same slew rate when driving 10 µF as you do when driving purely resistive loads"

The output coupling caps are taken in account ?
there is no visible trace of "slew rate problem" on my oscilloscope, the sine waves are smooth.
And no visible overshot too. ::)

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #28 –
Quote from: silverprout on

The output coupling caps are taken in account ?


No need to.    Coupling caps  don't load the circuit.   They couple the signal to whatever load there is. If the load is a resistor, then they pass it through to the amp. If it is a capacitor coupled to the ground, then there might be a problem.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: silverprout on
Berhinger is a lot cheaper, have you tested it (UMC202) ?
- DAC: Cirrus logic CS4272
- Op. amps: JRC 2122 et AD8694

Yes  I have. While the Focusrite Series 1 that I have only works at 16 bits and is at its best only at 44 KHz sampling, It outperforms the Behringer by about 93 dB SNR to 65 dB SNR. even with the Behringer operating at 24/96.
Did you just write sixty-five dB? Ouch. Something must have gone horribly, horribly wrong there. No wonder Behringer devices do not have any specs these days (a trend I really hate)...

If I didn't always blow my spare funds on music and had any use for such an interface, I'd almost be tempted to get one and poke around inside to see why that is. Messing up this badly requires some effort. Did someone forget to decouple their virtual ground? Is the input circuitry super high impedance? Major grounding eff-up somewhere? Jitter couldn't be that bad unless they used a CMOS RC oscillator on a noisy supply, which I doubt they did. Basically they've got some decent ICs going there, I would've thought it would be a C-Media job.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #30 –
Quote from: stephan_g on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: silverprout on
Berhinger is a lot cheaper, have you tested it (UMC202) ?
- DAC: Cirrus logic CS4272
- Op. amps: JRC 2122 et AD8694

Yes  I have. While the Focusrite Series 1 that I have only works at 16 bits and is at its best only at 44 KHz sampling, It outperforms the Behringer by about 93 dB SNR to 65 dB SNR. even with the Behringer operating at 24/96.
Did you just write sixty-five dB? Ouch. Something must have gone horribly, horribly wrong there. No wonder Behringer devices do not have any specs these days (a trend I really hate)...

If I didn't always blow my spare funds on music and had any use for such an interface, I'd almost be tempted to get one and poke around inside to see why that is. Messing up this badly requires some effort. Did someone forget to decouple their virtual ground? Is the input circuitry super high impedance? Major grounding eff-up somewhere? Jitter couldn't be that bad unless they used a CMOS RC oscillator on a noisy supply, which I doubt they did. Basically they've got some decent ICs going there, I would've thought it would be a C-Media job.

You haven't see it all.

Someone reverse engineered their HA400, and well: https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_iJIZ6urYU0emxFdjZlX1FzRWM

I just really hope that the whole thing is just a mistake from whoever reverse engeneered that, Otherwise that would mean that they don't even know how to place a diode.

I remembered when once I read a paper of TI for a cheap single supply solution that basically was just using one coupling cap in the ground path of the headphones, when I saw their measurements I said, "No one would be that crazy to attempt that in a headphone amp, hopefully this is only done in very very non critical implementations (like the headphone jack of an ATM)"....

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #31 –
 :D  i remember a Behringer CX 2300 active filter... the toroidal transformer was vibrating so hard that is was able to displace by itself on the floor  :D

All the cards that you've mentioned to have the ability that you are looking for needs unmaintened third party drivers.
This is why you should eventually choose a USB1 audio compilant card like my 10 years old Terratec aureon that works like a charm under all windows versions without any driver installation.
I use it with equalizer APO under Windows7-64 with 6 independants channels processings, each controlling one TPA3118 amplifier (24dB filters, equalisation and IR convolution) without any bug since i've installed it.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #32 –
Quote from: stephan_g on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: silverprout on
Berhinger is a lot cheaper, have you tested it (UMC202) ?
- DAC: Cirrus logic CS4272
- Op. amps: JRC 2122 et AD8694

Yes  I have. While the Focusrite Series 1 that I have only works at 16 bits and is at its best only at 44 KHz sampling, It outperforms the Behringer by about 93 dB SNR to 65 dB SNR. even with the Behringer operating at 24/96.
Did you just write sixty-five dB? Ouch. Something must have gone horribly, horribly wrong there. No wonder Behringer devices do not have any specs these days (a trend I really hate)...

65 dB dynamic range is fairly typical for an audio interface with mic inputs in the price range.

The problem is the mic preamp. All inputs are routed through it. If you want low noise and distortion out of a high-gain audio stage you have to use expensive parts, usually a composite of discrete transistors and high quality op amp.

Quote
If I didn't always blow my spare funds on music and had any use for such an interface, I'd almost be tempted to get one and poke around inside to see why that is. Messing up this badly requires some effort.

Not really, I just gave you the recipe that I've seen repeated a goodly number of times.

If you want an audio interface with ca. 100 dB dynamic range and distortion,  a mic input get your wallet out.

I can guarantee that it won't be compatible with all recent versions of Windows without add-on drivers because that limits you to 16/48 and that limits you to 93 dB. An example of a good interface meeting that spec is  the UCA 202:

nwavguy. behringer-uca202-review

nwavguy  uca202-dac-take-2.html

Here's the scoop on built in high resolution drivers for Windows:

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/matthew_van_eerde/2010/08/23/troubleshooting-how-to-install-the-microsoft-hd-audio-class-driver/

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/matthew_van_eerde/2016/09/15/installing-the-microsoft-class-drivers-for-usb-audio-devices/

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #33 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Here's the scoop on built in high resolution drivers for Windows
It seems that the chip manufacturers had taken some liberties with the norm.
Focusrite interfaces (claimed to have been the most respectfull possible to the norm in their conception) are not supported.

Re: Any cheap soundcard/interface for Rightmark/ARTA?

Reply #34 –
Quote from: silverprout on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Here's the scoop on built in high resolution drivers for Windows
It seems that the chip manufacturers had taken some liberties with the norm.
Focusrite interfaces (claimed to have been the most respectfull possible to the norm in their conception) are not supported.

I have two Focusrite interfaces - a Forte and a Scarlett. They have other innovative and helpful kinds of integration between the audio interface and the computer beyond just the audio channel interface that are IME unlikely to show up in a standard.