Quote from: ErnestS on 2016-11-30 09:01:53

If we look at a frequency graph, the big hole is not so big anymore. Here you can see the measurements from "Sound&Recording" magazine. While it does not looks as good as the Neumann KH120 or Genelec 8351, the reviewer stated that the directivity of the LSR305/308 is amongst the best.

Many people are unfamiliar with directivity and frequency response plots such as these. They are a lot more relevant and easy to understand if there is an apples to apples comparison (none in this thread yet that I can see) instead of comparisons to things that are completely undocumented in the thread. 

Without an actual competitive equipment plots for comparison, I fear that the tendency may be to compare a real world speaker with some imaginary perfect speaker. The claim that a home built speaker with fancy level controls is superior IMO completely misses the point.

Fancy level controls don't do a lot for directivity control or frequency response, especially in comparison to a speaker that is based on constant-directivity drivers instead of point source tweeters, and DSP-based frequency contouring as opposed to the inherent problems of trying to do the same thing with a few passive components in the analog domain. All this in a speaker that is not on the market. Is this not completely OT?

I never said that the  LSR305/308 is perfect or even amongst the best simply because I don't know. I will say that it is IME (with other real commercial speakers that anyone can buy) they are better than any of its like-priced competition. 

Around here the obvious competition have been the two Behringer Truths. In general, is both listening comparisons including some ABX-ing, and also with measurements, the larger JBLs are preferred. 

Comparison to more conventional speakers is also interesting and generally shows advantage: JBL.

I agree, it looks like a big hole if we look at the measurements from 0°-90°.

If we look at a frequency graph, the big hole is not so big anymore. Here you can see the measurements from "Sound&Recording" magazine. While it does not looks as good as the Neumann KH120 or Genelec 8351, the reviewer stated that the directivity of the LSR305/308 is amongst the best.

You are right, the only real bothering point seems to me the luminous on axis trebles here to comensate the natural rolloff of the 1' tweeter... 9Db!!! after 15K and 6Db at 9K (talking only about direcivity the world bests 1' tweeters have a 6Db rolloff at 10K).

They are pretty heavy equalized.

Fancy level controls are useful when you need to manage the bass quantity that can be bothering on some recordings (Example : the Wailers bassist is fantastic, but i always listen his huge basslines with a -12Db slope at 50Hz whatever the loudspeakers i use)

The 2K frequency is radiating only on 30°....

Again(!)

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-11-30 20:50:49

You are right, the only real bothering point seems to me the luminous on axis trebles here to comensate the natural rolloff of the 1' tweeter... 9Db!!! after 15K and 6Db at 9K (talking only about direcivity the world bests 1' tweeters have a 6Db rolloff at 10K).

None of the above makes any sense.

Quote

They are pretty heavy equalized.

And you have positive evidence of this from where? 

Quote

Fancy level controls are useful when you need to manage the bass quantity that can be bothering on some recordings (Example : the Wailers bassist is fantastic, but i always listen his huge basslines with a -12Db slope at 50Hz whatever the loudspeakers i use)

Ever hear of parametric equalizers?  Most people would prefer to have one of those for that purpose.

A good one that you already paid for is in any fairly modern PC  it is called The APO equalizer and a good set of controls for it are freely downloadable here:

Peace  Equalizer setup and control freeware

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-11-30 21:03:15

The 2K frequency is radiating only on 30°....

Um, no? It's ~3dB quieter above 30°, which is still pretty good. I don't know what your point is.

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on 2016-12-01 02:19:39

Quote

Fancy level controls are useful when you need to manage the bass quantity that can be bothering on some recordings (Example : the Wailers bassist is fantastic, but i always listen his huge basslines with a -12Db slope at 50Hz whatever the loudspeakers i use)

Ever hear of parametric equalizers?  Most people would prefer to have one of those for that purpose.

A good one that you already paid for is in any fairly modern PC  it is called The APO equalizer and a good set of controls for it are freely downloadable here:

Peace  Equalizer setup and control freeware

Yes i use them sometimes but i'm not always using a computer to listen music, so i've implemented theses attenuations by a linear active circuit with 6Db/oct slopes in order to preserve the global tonality that sharp slopes totally destroys.

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-11-30 21:03:15

The 2K frequency is radiating only on 30°....

Um, no? It's ~3dB quieter above 30°, which is still pretty good. I don't know what your point is.

You should read the black enveloppe :


Imagine that there is 1 meter between your proximity monitors and you are seated at 60 centimeters of the front panel of you loudspeakers... no stereo image.

The woo is strong with this one.

I guess my +3dB low shelf 12dB/oct filter at 100Hz is completely destroying the "global tonality" of my music, even though it sounds great and gives kick drums in particular a very pleasant kick.

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-11-30 21:03:15

The 2K frequency is radiating only on 30°....

Um, no? It's ~3dB quieter above 30°, which is still pretty good. I don't know what your point is.

You should read the black enveloppe :


Imagine that there is 1 meter between your proximity monitors and you are seated at 60 centimeters of the front panel of you loudspeakers... no stereo image.




Have you literally never heard of toe-in? It's kinda really important for nearfield listening.

And strictly speaking, an equilateral triangle is closer to ideal positioning. If the speakers are 1m apart, you should be sitting 1m away from each of the speakers. It's obviously not a hard and fast rule, but it's a generally accepted best practice.

If you sit obnoxiously close, almost right between the speakers, of course they'll sound strange. They're not made for that use case, you'd want omnidirectional speakers for that.

I was talking of my configuration... not yours 

The one meter configuration needs a very, very large desktop if you need access to your computer.
And the toed in configuration has the extreme on axis highs issue (white zones at 8KHz-9KHz and after 15KHz)

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-12-01 10:46:01

I was talking of my configuration... not yours 

You were speaking in general terms.

"with 6Db/oct slopes in order to preserve the global tonality that sharp slopes totally destroys."

Please define "global tonality" and how the use of sharp EQ slopes would "totally destroy" it. Because people have been using high-Q EQ cuts for decades to shape sound, with no apparent resulting atonality.

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-11-30 21:03:15

The one meter configuration needs a very, very large desktop if you need access to your computer.
And the toed in configuration has the extreme on axis highs issue (white zones at 8KHz-9KHz and after 15KHz)

Yes, it needs a large desktop, or speakers placed on stands behind and to the side. Or a relatively large mixing desk, which is probably the most common usage scenario for active monitors. Or you could just move the speakers a little closer to each other, to achieve an equilateral triangle.

You're looking at the graph and concluding that there is an on-axis high-frequency issue. Do you have anything other than a simplified graph to back this up?

Just how obvious do trolls have to make themselves beyond first posts, before recognition?

Quote from: KozmoNaut on 2016-12-01 12:13:56

Please define "global tonality" and how the use of sharp EQ slopes would "totally destroy" it. Because people have been using high-Q EQ cuts for decades to shape sound, with no apparent resulting atonality.

In my head... it is the frequency equilibrium of the whole low end response under 120Hz.
But i'm using large membrane bass drivers able to pressurize the room effortless down to 45Hz, a spike is a lot more easely detectable.
The placement of the bass driver in the room is highly critical and the size of the loudspeakers drivers is also highly critical if you can't choose large drivers and constrained to put them in front of you... equalizations and frustrations should be your playground.
I sometimes take the time to map my room with measurement mic, a good bass source placement in the room is tricky.

The two graphs are clearly showing the spikes... they are probably not approved by JBL owners, there is other measurements on gearslut showing this issue.

You are right the stereo is here at 1meter... if your head is 15,24 centimeter wide.
I'm kidding 

Quote from: ErnestS on 2016-11-30 09:01:53

I agree, it looks like a big hole if we look at the measurements from 0°-90°.

If we look at a frequency graph, the big hole is not so big anymore. Here you can see the measurements from "Sound&Recording" magazine. While it does not looks as good as the Neumann KH120 or Genelec 8351, the reviewer stated that the directivity of the LSR305/308 is amongst the best.

The 2K frequency is radiating only on 30°... it's few !

LSR 308... hole on the mids and shrill highs.


LSR305... fine !

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-12-01 17:32:11

LSR 308... hole on the mids and shrill highs.


LSR305... fine !

You did notice that the LSR308 graph says "vertical", while the LSR305 graph says "horizontal", right? ;-)

And the bass reflex boom boom !

That's a pretty big fuckup.

As if it wasn't already obvious that he's divining sound quality for devices he has likely never auditioned.

His redibility is continuing to plummet.

And as we can obviously see now, the horizontal dispersion is exemplary in both the LSR305 and the LSR308, with the latter being slightly more directional, I expect this is because of the larger frontal area of the cabinet?

I'm not sure I follow you on the "boom boom". Looks fine to me, and might I add sounded perfectly fine to me when I listened to them myself, back when I was considering replacing my Adam A5Xs. No "boom-boom" or "honkiness" or "boxy sound".

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-12-01 18:07:21

And the bass reflex boom boom !

Quote from: ErnestS on 2016-12-01 18:15:15

That is the THD+IMD measurement.

Quote from: silverprout on 2016-12-01 18:38:27

That's the measurement inside the listening room at the listening position, not a speaker measurement.

The blue curve is the average of 30 single measurements around the listening position, the red curve is the average of 30 single measurement with the green eq curve applied.