Skip to main content
Topic: Treating new members like... (Read 5652 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #100
The good example is usually "hold your tongue" which is a problem, since one cannot be silently present on an internet forum! Maybe I should make a habit of typing an occasional (ಠ_ಠ) as the equivalent of staring down a bloviator.

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #101
The good example is usually "hold your tongue" which is a problem, since one cannot be silently present on an internet forum! Maybe I should make a habit of typing an occasional (ಠ_ಠ) as the equivalent of staring down a bloviator.
Instead of a "like" button, maybe an HA administrator could program a "Harumph" button, for those silently judging.

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #102
I don't think like/dislike buttons are that useful. I'd rather see a "this is helpful" button.
"I hear it when I see it."

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #103
It appears that trick is in the wording, as if "new" member is someone that just walked out of corn field, while in reality can be pure evil from the deeps of "insert your favorite hifi forum here" or worse: troll.


I'd say: beat them, question them, ban them (if needed) and some will become supersonic real members.

Technicality: Perhaps it is possible with this new forum software to silence new members for first N days, which will allow them some reading and reduce weird topics, reducing the admin/moderation work.
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #104
Technicality: Perhaps it is possible with this new forum software to silence new members for first N days
Nah, gotta allow people to just ask a question, instead of requiring long-term commitment.

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #105
I don't think like/dislike buttons are that useful. I'd rather see a "this is helpful" button.
Voting up and down buttons are useful when there are high volumes of posts but with only a few active threads each day I am not sure there is much of a requirement.

How to handle unwanted posts from audiophiles is an interesting and challenging problem. I am pretty sure it is unwise to be accommodating when the first post is unwanted and violates the TOS. I am close to certain it is unwise if the second and third posts continue on the same track. Ridicule is an effective deterrent for all but the committed who are likely to be spurred on by it. Since there are a handful of active posters that want to ridicule audiophiles the forum currently gets it for free. Reducing it is what would require effort and it might also reduce other posts from these active and often fairly knowledgeable members.

The ridiculing of audiophiles will put off some posters that could make a positive contribution to the forum but it will also put off posters that would make a negative contribution. I lack the information to make a reasonable judgement of whether the pros are likely to outweigh the cons. My guess is that toning it down might in time raise the positive posts but what will happen with the negative posts? It is not an easy question.

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #106
There's a weird repeating pattern in the rhetoric of all of them, which always springs up giant red flag when I hear something like one of these:

- I can hear it, which is an incontrovertible observation
- Science doesn't know everything, therefore I'm going to ignore everything that we DO know
- Tsk, you people and your "experiments"
- My wife/dog
- I live in a big house near some woods

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #107
There's a weird repeating pattern in the rhetoric of all of them, which always springs up giant red flag when I hear something like one of these:

- I can hear it, which is an incontrovertible observation
- Science doesn't know everything, therefore I'm going to ignore everything that we DO know
- Tsk, you people and your "experiments"
... and none of those tell you that the person is a troll. I will not repeat the definition again, or my earlier points on misjudging people without a science education, that are ignorant about a lot of things, people that have been spoiled (not just in audiophile forums but this seems also to be generational) ...

- My wife/dog
... heard it from the kitchen with the door closed? :D
This does smell of trolling.
"I hear it when I see it."

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #108
I'm a new member here, and I've joined the forum at the behest of a former coworker.  He is a digital audio engineer/developer and so with pretty high expectations, I started reading some of the forum discussions here.  And at the time, he told me that the forum was quite different from most other "audio enthusiast" sites on the internet.  From what I've read and learned so far, I'm glad to see that there's a counter-balancing force amongst those other sites. 

But a good number of new members are coming here after being bombarded with pseudo audio science "facts" for a long time.  In fact, I was pretty dismayed by the inaccuracies of things I had thought to be true or at least relevent.  And much of my previous perceptions of "audio quality" and corresponding purchases go against the advice of older forum members here.  And I often see new members argue and attempt to justify their thoughts and, more importantly, their gear to make themselves feel better. 

Thankfully, I never fully went "audiophile" although a few things I own definitely lean that way.  I regret some of those things now, but I made those purchases based on what I thought was good information.  So perhaps a little sympathy could go a long way to better educating the misguided? 

In any case, I'm glad this place exists.  It sure cured me of the worst effects of the audiophile disease.

Thanks for reading,

Dan

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #109
I'm sure that being told that one had vastly overpaid for one's audio equipment must be very painful to hear, It's no wonder that one would fight back hard against the new reality.

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #110
More than that, we all know how easy it is to trick ourselves especially with our hearing. Imagine if you didn't know that and "heard" stuff for years while being surrounded by like-minded people... we all know what that results in.
"I hear it when I see it."

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #111
I'm sure that being told that one had vastly overpaid for one's audio equipment must be very painful to hear, It's no wonder that one would fight back hard against the new reality.

Too true.  I can honestly say my fancy desktop amp sounds no better than my O2AMP/ODAC pair, my fancy stereo receiver sounds no better than my budget amp hooked to my Sonos Connect, and my higher bit rate music files sound no better than CD quality music.  With a little more information, I could have saved myself a bunch of money and time.  Same thing applies for the money I spent on speakers and headphones...  Damn, I'm upset at myself...

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #112
There's nothing wrong with still enjoying fancier components.
"I hear it when I see it."

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #113
I'm sure that being told that one had vastly overpaid for one's audio equipment must be very painful to hear, It's no wonder that one would fight back hard against the new reality.

Too true.  I can honestly say my fancy desktop amp sounds no better than my O2AMP/ODAC pair, my fancy stereo receiver sounds no better than my budget amp hooked to my Sonos Connect, and my higher bit rate music files sound no better than CD quality music.  With a little more information, I could have saved myself a bunch of money and time.  Same thing applies for the money I spent on speakers and headphones...  Damn, I'm upset at myself...

I'd bet that your headphones and speakers sound better than cheap ones (unless we're talking about my "cheap" LSR305's).

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #114
Technicality: Perhaps it is possible with this new forum software to silence new members for first N days
Nah, gotta allow people to just ask a question, instead of requiring long-term commitment.
Nah, give them 30 days for meditation and world peace.
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #115
On one hand having new members wait before posting something might give some older members a break but on the other hand if they register to report a bug on foobar2000 part of the forums and find out they have to wait then it's a bad thing because it might discourage them all together.

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #116
Too true.  I can honestly say my fancy desktop amp sounds no better than my O2AMP/ODAC pair, my fancy stereo receiver sounds no better than my budget amp hooked to my Sonos Connect, and my higher bit rate music files sound no better than CD quality music.
Unless broken and/or "audiophile", (real) audible differences in electronics/files should be negligible to zero.

Same thing applies for the money I spent on speakers and headphones...
Unlike electronics, there most certainly are audible differences with transducers, it's just that you don't have to spend a fortune to get the sound you prefer.
However, the total subjective experience might go beyond just audible sound. And often does.

cheers,

AJ
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #117
Thankfully, I never fully went "audiophile" although a few things I own definitely lean that way.  I regret some of those things now, but I made those purchases based on what I thought was good information.  So perhaps a little sympathy could go a long way to better educating the misguided? 

Indeed. Hydrogen Audio has helped me along the way too, but there is a very simple approach: ask. There is at least one thing that I had had my doubts about (electrical noise from PC power supplies, especially laptop) that I have been able to mark as confirmed possible by people with rational minds. Hydrogenaudio is not always about just rubbishing and debunking things. There is a tiny patch of shared ground that connects audiophile nonsense to reality.

The other approach is to treat the forum as if it is another audiophool site. Just arrive, spouting the usual, and then complain when people respond no thanks. Seems to me that that approach to a site is either rude, ignorant, or... just plain trolling.

I am far from a hard-core rationalist, and I have no scientific or technical knowledge. However, I have (in my old age!) become too rational for some of the fora that I used to frequent. There is no point in trying to convert those people. Harping on will only get one told to go away. If I went to certain religious institutions (which audiophile sites are, in a way) and spouted my opinion of what is going on there I'd expect to be violently evicted. I'd deserve it too: such behaviour would be rude to say the least. It is their house; not mine. I don't think it is wrong for hydrogenaudio members to expect the same simple good manners here. Some of these people must be pretty thick to not the the this-site-is-not-for-message within a page.

Quote
In any case, I'm glad this place exists.  It sure cured me of the worst effects of the audiophile disease
Me too. I've come to regard some of the stuff I've seen some audophiles do and say is little short of metal illness (Ha! How would that go down on some of those sites!). At best, it is a world, and a very commercial world, supported by complete fantasy --- which is pretty weird state of affairs!
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #118
it's just that you don't have to spend a fortune to get the sound you prefer.

You hit the nail on the head there.  I was looking for "better" when all I found was "different" and realized I had my favorite sounding pair already.

I'd bet that your headphones and speakers sound better than cheap ones (unless we're talking about my "cheap" LSR305's).

Yes, I do enjoy my newer speakers' sound over the old ones. 

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #119
There's nothing wrong with still enjoying fancier components.
Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with still enjoying more powerful equipment.

Personally, I suspect that the better sound most "audiophiles" claim to hear, simply comes from systems with more powerful amplification.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #120
We've had a number of technical discussions on the matter and from those I strongly suspect that the majority of people who think they are truly benefiting from higher power are only doing so through placebo effect.

EDIT: I probably should have binned and warned for the above post being off-topic instead of answering it in an effort to combat what I believe to be FUD.  Oh well.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

Re: Treating new members like...

Reply #121
2tec's last reply was binned per TOS #5.  He can do his own research into the matter and resurrect the appropriate thread if he has any further questions.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

 
SimplePortal 1.0.0 RC1 © 2008-2019