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WAV Conversion anomaly

I need some help with foobar.

I have two rather interesting and similar DAPs, one that plays only FLAC and WAV (Alien Shozy), the other plays only MP3 and WAV (Hippo Biscuit+). Therefore I wish to convert/copy my main MP3 collection to WAV as this is the format that will be compatible with both devices (sd card can be exchanged between the two). *FWIW I hear no difference from a CD Rip to WAV vs a MP3 320kbps file > WAV, so for my purposes this is simply a compatibility issue.

With foobar's standard WAV conversion tool I encountered a problem. Although it plays fine on the Alien Shozy DAP, if played on the Hippo Biscuit DAP, at the end of each track, there is a loud, harsh, static, second long buzzing noise between tracks that occurs. It is extremely intense and unbearable.

Now at first I thought it was simply a case of the Hippo Biscuit DAP being broken in some way, so I did a little digging around and discovered that other users report success with WAV files, and others experiencing same as me...

So then i got thinking, and just tried using Winamps WAV converter to see what happens. To my surprise it works, there is no second long buzz of static between tracks, all is as should be.

But ultimately I really need to be using foobars WAV conversion tool, because Winamps is rather limited. As my MP3 collection grows, I wish to convert/sync to WAV, and I need an option during the conversion process to 'skip existing files' which foobar has (but winamp does not so it seems, it doubles up).

Clearly there is some differences in how the two programs make a WAV file from a mp3 file (in their default settings).
I am wondering if there is anyone out here that has an idea as to what might be happening and a way to reconfigure foobar so that it's WAV converter behaves as well as winamps?

Cheers,

Bruce

WAV Conversion anomaly

Reply #1
In Converter setup: click on "Other", then uncheck "Transfer tags". (apparently Hippo Biscuit cannot parse wav files correctly and treats tags as audio data)

WAV Conversion anomaly

Reply #2
In Converter setup: click on "Other", then uncheck "Transfer tags". (apparently Hippo Biscuit cannot parse wav files correctly and treats tags as audio data)


Thanks i'll try that.

EDIT: Sadly that did not work, I'm still hearing the same noise post track. It wasn't a very good solution either because it omitted the track id3 tags and Hippo Biscuit actually relies on this information for playing order (unlike the Shozy Alien that uses just filename ordering). Also, I would prefer to perhaps use winamp or some other software to browse my collection in WAV using id3 tags, in order to compile a listening playlist that I wanted for that day, then 'drag n drop' said playlist onto sd card, without tags this would make this task impossible.

If it had worked it might have been usable, I would just convert to WAV on the fly (and seeing as you omit tags the conversion seems to be much faster), and then use the Hippo Biscuit purely in shuffle mode (so tags not matter so much) but really I just wanted a WAV library that was compatible with both devices, but also 'surfable' via software.

It looks as tho I'm stuck for now using Winamp to browse my MP3 library, create a playlist for the day, then convert the playlist to WAV onto sd card. The only issue with this is it can take awhile to convert 200 files or so (and copy) onto an sd card (first thing in the morning when i'm trying to get out the door!), I just wanted to speed up that process by having a second library of WAV already created (and syncable).

Any other suggestions? I might try unticking transfer attached pictures, as I believe a heck of a lot of my artwork is tagged to files (when folder.jpg is prolly in reality enough).

WAV Conversion anomaly

Reply #3
Ahh well the plot thickens. Removing (unticking) 'transfer attached pictures' seems to solve the static hiss post track (hooray!), and I can even keep the tagged information as well. But this now presents me with a new set of problems (perhaps best posted as a new thread somewhere else).

I will type the problem below here as well as creating a new post in the hope it generates more traffic and responses.

Now I have a WAV library that is tagged correctly but void of any artwork. Also, Winamp does not see the tags for the WAV files, even tho Tag&Rename does (and dragging a few sample songs into foobars playlist also sees the tags), so i'm assuming this is a Winamp issue. I would really like to see artwork displayed as it helps when choosing music for the day etc.

- If winamp can't see the tags anyway, and no artwork then perhaps its time to try something else...

- I tried Musicbee but was getting extremely frustrated even just trying to remove the library it seems to be adamant on finding (the MP3 files). I even had to try uninstalling twice and messing with it's ini startup file to resolve to no success! There is no simple 'clear library' and add a new one! Perhaps it doesn't like looking at WAV files... anyway, i didn't have any success with music bee...

- My thinking was this. Use Foobar (pointed at MP3 library) for conversion purposes (because it has a 'skip file if already exists' function which I will really need). And then use another software to browse my WAV collection (complete with tags and art). If I can't bring art across to another software player, I thought perhaps it might have an 'auto find artwork' feature to navigate around this...

- I'm starting to think perhaps I can try to have foobar installed twice on my pc? One foobar that points to MP3 library (call it foomp3), the other points at my WAV collection (call it foowav). Then when i do the conversion process I can get the other foowav to go hunting online for missing artwork automatically (ie not embed in files but just create a 'cover.jpg or folder.jpg' that it finds from tag info). Is this possible?

Otherwise, as is, I am stuck using winamp (or foobar) to browse my mp3 collection (complete with art view etc), does successful wav conversions for both devices, but it has to be done 'as and when required' which adds significant time to the copying process in the morning.

It seems like a mess, and I agree it is a bit, but I'm doing this so that essentially when I leave for work in the morning, I can use an interface that allows me to browse my WAV collection (complete with tags and artwork), build a playlist, and then copy that playlist (drag n drop preferably) onto an sd card that is exchangable between my two fav DAPs (one for gym, one for work). If the files are already WAV it saves signifacant time in copying onto an sd card rather than doing the conversion at same time.

So i'm looking for answers as to whether i can install two foobar copies onto one pc, and also if there is a component or someway for foobar to search for artwork in the format of 'cover.jpg' or 'folder'.jpg for the WAV collection that will be void of this...

WAV Conversion anomaly

Reply #4
WAV was never meant to hold tags, and when you do tag WAV files it can lead to problems like you've already noticed.
I'd stick to FLAC. When needed, you can easily convert FLAC to MP3 using Foobar.


WAV Conversion anomaly

Reply #6
Didn't you create this problem by buying DAPs that head-fi said were good, rather than buying a DAP that was, er, good?

Slightly more helpful: lots of people (myself included) keep dual FLAC+mp3 collections. There are several ways of doing this. You can rip to both automatically. You can automatically or manually convert from one to the other (fb2k, flac2mp3, dbpoweramp, etc etc). I note that, conveniently, FLAC+mp3 would cover both your mp3 players. Most people use the FLAC as the source though.

However, converting to WAV is very fast - almost as fast as a direct file copy here (have you tried it on your machine?), so maybe you don't need two collections at all?

I can only dream of having time in a morning to select music for the day  But with most of what I own sitting as mp3s on my DAP, I don't need to.

Cheers,
David.

WAV Conversion anomaly

Reply #7
WAV was never meant to hold tags, and when you do tag WAV files it can lead to problems like you've already noticed.
I'd stick to FLAC. When needed, you can easily convert FLAC to MP3 using Foobar.


FLAC was what I was working with before I just recently bought the Hippo Biscuit which does not support FLAC. The idea was to have a single library to which I can build a playlist and that the music on the sd card could be interchangeable between DAPs on the go, so your input doesn't really solve this issue. Copying to two sd cards in the morning would take too long.


You can have a portable fb2k install.

You may also want to try m-tags: http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=97164

And ... artwork as folder.jpg?


Thanks I will look into m-tags. I already have folder.jpg in all the MP3 albums, but when doing a conversion to WAV (ie copying and making a new library) the folder.jpgs are of course omitted. How to copy all the folder.jpgs into the right folders quickly and easily is the question? I would have thought some kind of 'album art' finder that browses (id3 tags) and copies a folder.jpg to the album folder would be simplest (but not embed art into actual files). Perhaps an external tagger might do this better that rather relying on foobar...

Didn't you create this problem by buying DAPs that head-fi said were good, rather than buying a DAP that was, er, good?

Slightly more helpful: lots of people (myself included) keep dual FLAC+mp3 collections. There are several ways of doing this. You can rip to both automatically. You can automatically or manually convert from one to the other (fb2k, flac2mp3, dbpoweramp, etc etc). I note that, conveniently, FLAC+mp3 would cover both your mp3 players. Most people use the FLAC as the source though.

However, converting to WAV is very fast - almost as fast as a direct file copy here (have you tried it on your machine?), so maybe you don't need two collections at all?

I can only dream of having time in a morning to select music for the day  But with most of what I own sitting as mp3s on my DAP, I don't need to.

Cheers,
David.



Hahaha. Well...I don't look at this as a massive problem, rather a minor inconvenience that has possible solutions round the corner

I know what you mean about head fi guys talking up weird DAPs when their are other more sensible DAPs that exist. I do hope you realise I am a collector of sorts. In my drawer next to me I have half a dozen DAPs that include Sansa Fuzev2, Fuze+, Clip+, Clip Zip, Clip Sport, Cowon C2, Cowon i9+, Cowon E2, Cowon E3 and now the Alien Shozy and Hippo Biscuit+

I am simply going through a phase of using DAPs differently, and to be honest the shuffle screenless style player has been an eye opener and made me reevaluate what's important to me in a DAP, some of which are better to be experienced first hand than believed through forums. When I bought the Shozy I was pretty sure I would flog it within 1 week, but here I am months later using it as my main go to device, my ears cannot lie to me, they like what they like!
And using software such as winamp or foobar to pick music for the day might seem a drain, but in actual reality I enjoy it more than fiddling with the DAP in a process that inevitably takes longer (to create a playlist for the day that is)... Pros and Cons etc.

I did notice that when I unticked 'attached pictures' and 'transfer tags' the WAV conversion seemed speeded up indeed. The difference I think tho is that WAV files are much larger, so in essence the wait time might be more to do with copying the files across to sd card rather than conversion time, so this is indeed something I need to think about and look into. You may very well be right, easier to just have one single MP3 library and just convert each day.
I'm not sure how the hippo will react to untagged files for playing order tho... it actually uses id3 tags to sort the playing order, nothing at all to do with the filename (unlike shozy that just uses filename).

I'll keep you posted as to how I proceed, thanks for all yer input (except nastea... u were useless....  )

WAV Conversion anomaly

Reply #8
Can't you see that what you want is actually a bit stupid?
The Hippo Biscuit+ plays only MP3 and WAV, and when you play WAV on it you get annoying static noise between tracks... So play MP3 then! No conversion time and it can hold 5 times more music. Or simply choose the Alien Shozy to play FLAC files.

Your "issue" disappears when you can make up your mind. 

WAV does not sound better then FLAC or decoded MP3's and takes a lot more space, and you probable can't tag it right.. All this for compatibility? Are you going to bring 2 DAP's with you and change the SD card all day long?
You have a drawer full of players, but not one that can play both FLAC and MP3?
Seems like you're making things needlessly difficult for yourself.

 

WAV Conversion anomaly

Reply #9
Can't you see that what you want is actually a bit stupid?
The Hippo Biscuit+ plays only MP3 and WAV, and when you play WAV on it you get annoying static noise between tracks... So play MP3 then! No conversion time and it can hold 5 times more music. Or simply choose the Alien Shozy to play FLAC files.

Your "issue" disappears when you can make up your mind. 

WAV does not sound better then FLAC or decoded MP3's and takes a lot more space, and you probable can't tag it right.. All this for compatibility? Are you going to bring 2 DAP's with you and change the SD card all day long?
You have a drawer full of players, but not one that can play both FLAC and MP3?
Seems like you're making things needlessly difficult for yourself.


I know it may appear slightly crazy, but don't jump to assumptions. What i have learned over the years is we all tend to listen/use our music differently, and what might suit one person doesn't always suit the next.
For a start I tend to wake up with a very specific mood that day, for an artist, album or certain tracks are asking to be played, and so I have always (for years now) created playlists for that day.
On the Cowon i9+ I did it with it's 'Favorites' feature, with the Alien Shozy and Hippo Biscuit+ there is no way to do this task therefore it has to be prepared beforehand (and to be honest it's far more enjoyable experience to prepare the days music from software such as foobar and winamp).
I actually do take two DAPs with me, the Hippo Biscuit I use in the gym (because it's far smaller and lighter with easier controls to feel blindly), and then I upgrade to the Alien Shozy when at work for the rest of the day (as it slightly has the edge imo for sound quality).
Up until now I have been doing exactly as you say, MP3's on the Hippo Biscuit, and FLAC on the Shozy, but it was becoming a drag to do two things (with two cards) and manage all these different libraries etc
It was a thought only, to have a centralised WAV library (HDD space is not an issue), and create the playlist for the day, copy onto 1 card and have the ability to eject the card from one device to the next as and when required.

You're probably looking at all this from a 'screened' DAP perspective etc, file sizes etc. None of that really matters for a screenless DAP. I can use a 64gb card full of FLAC on the Shozy, but it's a nightmare trying to find what yer looking for, these devices are not intended for use like this (and of course is one of their many drawbacks). 16gb card is actually fine, even for WAV files, can fit a good 200 songs which are 'navigatable' for the day.

Anyway, I'm not even trying to say my dap is better than your dap, if you care to learn more you're welcome to read my review;

http://www.head-fi.org/products/shozy-alie...p/reviews/12415

FWIW Sansa and Cowon play FLAC and MP3 files.

 
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