Opus and replay gain Reply #25 – 2014-03-13 11:20:06 Quote from: 2Bdecided on 2014-03-12 14:50:32If the output gain is the Album Gain, but the player developer and/or the user doesn't understand the significance of this, then Opus files will play back about 15dB quieter than mp3s (both ripped from the same 2014 CD), and there's nothing the user can do about it.Consider this scenario for a second here. You're assuming the user has (1) ReplayGain tagged Opus files yet no understanding that they are...from what source would those appear exactly? (2) MP3 files that are not ReplayGain tagged or a player that doesn't have ReplayGain support.This scenario is identical to someone CURRENTLY plugging ANY ReplayGained file into a player that DOES support ReplayGain and wondering why it's quieter than his other files.So you're preaching doom over a scenario that already exists outside Opus.QuoteHow soon before someone writes a tool to batch re-set the output gain on a bunch of Opus files to 0, or creates a player that ignores the output gain by default (hence breaking the Opus spec)?In both of these cases, they'll learn why the gain is there, and there's good chances that they offer a proper option for it. So a win in my book.QuoteQuoteIf you know that playing at the right loudness will cause clipping, there's no right way to play back the music.You know there are two ways to mitigate this.And they both suck, hence "no right way to play back the music" in that case.Quotecan never have the "just play it a bit quieter but without damaging the audio" option.Unfortunately this (peak normalization) isn't actually very good at totally preventing clipping in practice, and you're losing the benefit of ReplayGain in the first place when doing so. So no, I don't think it's worth it.QuoteThis makes no sense. If you called the Output Gain "Album gain", specified that it was either absent or correctly filled by the encoder, specified that every player must apply it by default (they can add a user option to disable it if they want), and also included peak information - then you'd have exactly the benefits that you seek, but avoid most of the drawbacks. Specifically, not including peak information isn't a required step to get to where you seem to want to. It's not a necessary cost. It's a pointless mistake.Adding complexity to a system is always a cost. Your description is just "I want a pony", and terribly non-constructive. What was designed in Opus is a system that will bring the benefits of ReplayGain (sans clipping prevention, which I believe to be senseless and would have required player support) to every player, even if they have no ReplayGain support. This is a huge win over the situation with Vorbis.