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Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Hi

I've done my first lot of ripping today and have been playing about with the results.  I use dbPoweramp to rip.  I have DBPA write ReplayGain Track AND Album for all my files.  I'm on WinXP SP3. 

I just noticed that in the Selection Properties Album Gain and Album Peak shows for some tracks but not for others.  And yet ALL tracks definitely have Album RG (I double checked in explorer properties and it is definitely there). 

Can anybody think of a reason for this? 

Many thanks

Max

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #1
Just to add....  I had another look at this this morning.  Album Gain is definitely working (it reduces the volume noticeably) when selected.  So the issue is just with why Foobar is not showing the Album Gain and Peak info....

I then went on to bring up the properties for a track without Album RG showing.  I hit the Tools button and selected "Reload Info".  Voila - the Album Gain/Peak info appeared. 

So it's just a case of finding out why it shows it for some tracks and not for others....

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #2
Could you give some more details about your workflow? The important parts are when and how you add the tracks to foobar2000 and when dBpowerAmp adds track and album ReplayGain data.

The following could explain what you experienced but it is merely a speculation.
  • dbPoweramp rips a track. It calculates track ReplayGain data on the fly and immediately writes this data to the file.
  • The track is added to foobar2000, either manually or automatically using a monitored library folder. foobar2000 loads the track ReplayGain data.
  • dbPoweramp finishes processing the album, calculates album ReplayGain data and writes it to the tracks without changing the modification time.
  • foobar2000 fails to detect changes on files where neither the file size nor the modification time was changed. foobar2000 does not automatically load the album ReplayGain data from these files.

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #3
Hi

Yeah, sure....  I rip in DBPA using the multi encoder to mp3 and FLAC.  It's the FLAC files I'll be using in Foobar.  I use the ReplayGain DSP codec in DBPA to write the tags (one instance per encoder). 

In Foobar, I have path "J:\" listed under Music folders.  This is where all my music is kept, including these new FLAC rips.  The status shows as "Monitoring".     

With regard the possible explanation....  I tried removing the "J:\" path, and then re-loading it as the Music folder path to see if it would update.  Unfortunately that did not solve it.

Many thanks for the help.


Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #4
Does using the "Reload Info" command solve the problem for all tracks in question?

By the way, if you configure foobar2000 to use album RG mode, it will fall back to track RG data if the album RG data is missing, and vice versa.

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #5
Does using the "Reload Info" command solve the problem for all tracks in question?


Yes, it does seem to.... 

So I did something potentially rash....  I selected ALL tracks in my FLAC folder, opened properties, and used "Reload Info".  It has done the trick....  They now all have Album Gain.  So that's good.  I'm just a little concerned now that I might have messed things up in some way or another by "Reloading Info" for every track...  What do you think? 

If all is well with that method, then I guess I can just do that periodically, although it would of course be nice if I could get around the problem properly. 


By the way, if you configure foobar2000 to use album RG mode, it will fall back to track RG data if the album RG data is missing, and vice versa.


Ahh, that makes sense then as to what was happening.


Many thanks for the help.




Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #6
The "Reload Info" command only updates foobar2000's metadata cache so it is a safe operation. It can take quite a bit of time depending on the number of tracks and the speed of your storage device. For example if you use it on a large number of tracks which are stored on a network drive it can be rather slow. However you can use the search function in foobar2000 to find recently added or modified tracks and use "Reload Info" only on these tracks.

It is still curious that foobar2000 does not automatically load the album RG data for some files.

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #7
OK.  So "Reload Info" won't do anything at all to files if there is nothing to reload?  That's good news.  I'll just keep doing that for now then.  I'll either do it for all tracks once in a while, or else sort them by date modified/added and do it that way (if I can figure out how)!!!

It is still curious that foobar2000 does not automatically load the album RG data for some files.


But yes, ultimately it would be great to find out why this is happening, so hopefully we can find the reason in the end.  Is it worth me asking on the DBPA forum?  I don't think it is anything to do with the ripping process though because the tag data IS being written. 


One thing I should add....  I usually have Foobar open and playing back FLAC music whilst DBPA is running and ripping (ripping to the same FLAC folder that Foobar is monitoring).  Could that have anything to do with it? 

Thanks again

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #8
The author of dBpoweramp is also active on this forum. I pointed him to this thread. Hopefully he can clarify dBpoweramp's behaviour so we can figure this out.

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #9
Nice one, thanks foosion

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #10
It's late/bedtime so I only had a few spare minutes to further this....  I ripped one album with Foobar open and playing music at the same time.  Only the last track showed Album RG tag data in Foobar.  So I closed Foobar and ripped the next album.  ALL tracks had Album RG tags showing.  So it could be an issue with ripping and having Foobar open at the same time.

Tomorrow, I'll delete that first album and then re-rip with Foobar closed to see what happens...

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #11
Tomorrow, I'll delete that first album and then re-rip with Foobar closed to see what happens...


OK....  I've done that.  I went on to rip a further couple of albums with Foobar closed.  All ripped properly with Album Gain/Peak showing.  I then ripped another album with Foobar open and playing....  No Album Gain /Peak info except for the last track.

Looking over some of my previous rips, it does often seem to be only the last track that gets the Album Gain/Peak tags.  But it is not a hard and fast rule.  Sometimes it is a seemingly random selection, and sometimes none at all....

Any thoughts would be great.  If we can't get to the bottom of it, I guess I'll have to be ripping without Foobar open / or periodically run Properties > Tools > Reload Info, as discussed above.  At least that won't mess with my tracks in any other way (he says nervously). 

Cheers

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #12
Thank your for providing this detailed observation. It strengthens my hypothesis that dBpoweramp writes track gain and album gain at different times during the ripping process. It calculates track RG data on the fly so it can write this to each track as the track is ripped. Album RG data needs audio data from all tracks so it can only write this after the last track was ripped.

It might be that dBpoweramp writes the album RG data to the last track as it is ripped or directly after that. Therefore the last track is the only one where foobar2000 is guaranteed to read both track and album RG data. Which and how many of the other tracks show up with album RG data in foobar2000 probably depends on the order in which the tracks are processed and on the system load, so it appears to be random. I still hope spoon can clarify whether dBpoweramp preservers the file modification time when updating the RG data or not.

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #13
Thank your for providing this detailed observation.


All thanks go to you for helping me! 

We'll see what Spoon says if he joins in.  It would be great to get to the bottom of it....  I'm enjoying listening to my newly ripped FLACs whilst ripping some more, so I'd prefer not to have to close Foobar whilst ripping.  As above, I can fall back on the "Reload Info" command and just run that periodically to make sure every track has the Album RG metadata recognised. 

But in truth I'm a bit of stress head (!), so I've re-read this a few times:

The "Reload Info" command only updates foobar2000's metadata cache so it is a safe operation. It can take quite a bit of time depending on the number of tracks and the speed of your storage device. For example if you use it on a large number of tracks which are stored on a network drive it can be rather slow. However you can use the search function in foobar2000 to find recently added or modified tracks and use "Reload Info" only on these tracks.


and while it would seem that this method should not cause any problems, I'm a touch concerned that I might overlook something.  I don't want the tracks or their metadata to change in any other conceivable way.  So any further info as to what that command does (and how) will hopefully ease my worried mind! 

For now, I have added "Album Gain" and "Album Peak" columns to Foobar so it is easy to tell which tracks do not have it.  And - as you say - I can order tracks by this info and then select just those that need to use "Reload Info" to be updated.

Thanks for sticking with me!

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #14
Dumb question, but you have not highlighted several and they have potentially different gains? You are highlighting tracks one by one?
High Voltage socket-nose-avatar

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #15
I don't want the tracks or their metadata to change in any other conceivable way.
The "Reload Info" command reads the tags from your tracks and stores them in the player's metadata cache. That's all it does. In particular, it does not modify the audio files.

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #16
Dumb question, but you have not highlighted several and they have potentially different gains? You are highlighting tracks one by one?


Yes, I'm either highlighting tracks one by one, or - now that I have added those columns - I'm looking at the data directly in foobar.

The "Reload Info" command reads the tags from your tracks and stores them in the player's metadata cache. That's all it does. In particular, it does not modify the audio files.


Excellent.  Thanks for clarifying and re-assuring me! 

So I'll go with the "Reload Info" route in that case.  I'll just do it once in a while.... 

Thanks for all the help

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #17
Hi

Just revisiting this for a moment...

For other reasons, I was just ripping an album and I was watching the files get added to the folder (in Explorer).  I currently have columns in Explorer to show all 4 RG figures.  As you suspected foosion, the Track Gain/Peak is written on the fly per track.  You see it get added after each file is written.  But then, at the end of the album rip, Album Gain/Peak was only written on the final track of the album.  Interesting...  I then went up a folder, and then re-open the album folder.  Album Gain/Peak values were then present for ALL the tracks. 

That seems to be relevant and ties in with what's been going on.  If Foobar is open, it is picking up the data on the fly and therefore only getting the Album RG for the last track.  If it is closed when ripping, it gets all the data correctly when next opened. 

Is it a problem?  Well for me - now that I know what is happen in - I guess not.  But for other people it could be.....

Album Gain and Album Peak info not showing for some files....

Reply #18
dBpoweramp will write the album gain only after ripping has finished, potentially a player could pick up the new files before this happens.

 
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