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Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #175
Hello @k2k, do you know Dirac Live?
They state to use an innovative "Mixed-phase room correction technology" surpassing  any prior or competing solution.
If you know about, would you kindly give us your opinion or compare your solution with it?
Thanks and regards, Andrea

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #176
Hello @k2k, do you know Dirac Live?
They state to use an innovative "Mixed-phase room correction technology" surpassing  any prior or competing solution.
If you know about, would you kindly give us your opinion or compare your solution with it?
Thanks and regards, Andrea
We don't discuss competitors.
Key features of our technology are listed at https://mathaudio.com/why-room-eq.htm

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #177
hello , i cannot acces to https://mathaudio.com from at least 3 days.
i am alone?

Music is my first love.

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #178
hello , i cannot acces to https://mathaudio.com from at least 3 days.
i am alone?
I've just tested https://mathaudio.com from multiple countries. Everything works. Please send me your IP address and I will check it in our firewall. You can see your IP address at https://www.whatismyip.com/  I've sent you a personal message with my email address.

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #179
hello , i cannot acces to https://mathaudio.com from at least 3 days.
i am alone?
I've just tested https://mathaudio.com from multiple countries. Everything works. Please send me your IP address and I will check it in our firewall. You can see your IP address at https://www.whatismyip.com/  I've sent you a personal message with my email address.
it is à problem with my internet access provider, sorry.
Music is my first love.

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #180
Hello K2K.

First off, congratulations on a truly wonderful software program, and THANK YOU for making it available to FB2K users at no cost. It is easy to use, very powerful and IT WORKS!!! I had a really bad room resonance (+15 dB peak at 50 Hz!) and Room EQ was able to null it out. My system sounds so much better now!!!

I have a few questions for you:

1) I'm using an Dayton UMM-6 USB mic with calibration file, and measuring my room with a normal 2-channel stereo setup. Your instructions say to point the mic straight up at the ceiling from listening position, but my mic calibration file is specifically calibrated at ZERO degrees. In this case, should I not be pointing the mic horizontally at the space midway between my two speakers? Will I get a more accurate reading this way? I don't understand why I should be pointing it at the ceiling! High frequency response (>10 kHz) of the microphone must drop off considerably @ 90 degrees off axis, no???

2) Is it possible to use Room EQ simultaneously with another DSP EQ program running on FB2K? In my case, I have open baffle speakers paired to subwoofers. There is a significant response dip where the subwoofer and OB speakers "crossover" - so I use a DSP equalizer to boost that dip to get a flatter response.

If I have that DSP EQ program running as normal, can I then use Room EQ and do a room measurement while both are running? What about after I apply room EQ to my system - can I have the two programs running at the same time on FB2K? Will they interact or cause problems?

I think I read somewhere that if concurrent DSP programs are being used, Room EQ should be the LAST (or bottom) program in the "active DSP list" in FB2K? Is this correct?

Thanks again for giving us such a wonderful program. It is truly a fantastic addition to my sound system!

Papi Chulito
Northern Arizona, USA

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #181
Hello Papi,
1) The high frequency response will drop off a little in any case (pointing the microphone at the point between your speakers doesn’t ideally solve the problem). On the other hand, pointing the microphone at the ceiling makes the microphone equally sensitive to the wall reflection, and this factor is very important. Ideally, a 90 degrees calibration file is preferable, but a zero degrees calibration file normally doesn’t produce an audible distinction.
2) The Foobar2000 version of Room EQ has its own audio output for the sweep sound. In other words, the sweep sound is not processed by any other Foobar2000 components that are present in the chain. You may want to try to avoid usage of the additional boosting equalizer. Simply move down the vertical slider of Room EQ to compensate for the dip (or increase the cut-off frequency of your subwoofer to avoid the dip).

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #182
Hello Papi,
(snip)...
...You may want to try to avoid usage of the additional boosting equalizer. Simply move down the vertical slider of Room EQ to compensate for the dip (or increase the cut-off frequency of your subwoofer to avoid the dip).
Hi K2K, and thanks for your response. Unfortunately, I have a problem that will persist, regardless of your excellent suggestion.

My main speakers start a steep roll-off at about 200 Hz. I tried adjusting the crossover frequency on my woofer as high as it would go...and to my surprise it only goes to ~125 Hz, then drops off at 24 dB/octave. Even with the crossover F set up high, there is a rather deep suck out between 125 and 200 Hz...a critical zone for upper bass guitar.

You are correct in that I could drop the correction curve WAY down to the bottom of that trough. I tried that, and as you can imagine, the resulting sound was "artificial" and lifeless. Like many other users, I have found that DSP corrections sound best when used sparingly...I set my correction curve (Bruel and Kjaer) to allow for a bit of ripple below the line - this makes the system sound the most realistic to me. Human hearing is complex...it almost appears humans want some deviation from a perfect curve to sound "real."

So how did I solve the problem? After placing the correction curve to where I liked it, I noted the center F and depth of the remaining troughs. I used another DSP program called Easy Q to apply a boost where appropriate. I am happy with the result! Easy Q seems to work together with Room EQ without any negative artifacts...at least none that I can hear. I'm using a Intel Core 5 that appears to handle the double DSP processing duties without bogging down in the least.

Is it OK for me to continue using the two DSP programs together as I outlined?

Thanks again! 

    

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #183
Is it OK for me to continue using the two DSP programs together as I outlined?
Hi Papi,
There is no problem with your setup.
You can use free MathAudio Headphone EQ component for Foobar2000 instead of a conventional equalizer. Headphone EQ can work as a conventional equalizer and it 'always' uses 64-bit floating-point filters - even if you use 32-bit Windows or 32-bit CPU.


Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #184
Is it OK for me to continue using the two DSP programs together as I outlined?
Hi Papi,
There is no problem with your setup.
You can use free MathAudio Headphone EQ component for Foobar2000 instead of a conventional equalizer. Headphone EQ can work as a conventional equalizer and it 'always' uses 64-bit floating-point filters - even if you use 32-bit Windows or 32-bit CPU.
K2K,

OK, great! Thanks for the tip on your headphone EQ program. I'll try it out!

My only "dream wish" at this point would be for the Room EQ and Headphone EQ programs to be integrated, so that the test tone sweep for Room EQ comes from the Headphone EQ program. This way, I could dial in the lift I need at my sub/main speaker crossover point, and then see the result by sweeping with Room EQ...to make final corrections for room reflections, bass resonant peaks, etc. I think using Room EQ + a "standard" DSP EQ in consort is a better sounding approach than just bringing the Room EQ correction curve down so low that it takes the "life" out of the sound. Just my opinion!  

That combo of integrated programs would be the ULTIMATE solution for every possible application an audiophile might have!

Thanks again!

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #185
My only "dream wish" at this point would be for the Room EQ and Headphone EQ programs to be integrated, so that the test tone sweep for Room EQ comes from the Headphone EQ program. This way, I could dial in the lift I need at my sub/main speaker crossover point, and then see the result by sweeping with Room EQ...to make final corrections for room reflections, bass resonant peaks, etc.
You can do it right now by means of using demo versions of VST plug-ins for measurement, saving the resultant presets and loading that presets to the Foobar2000 versions of Room EQ and Headphone EQ. The process is as follows:
1. Install demo version of Reaper (you can download it from https://reaper.fm)
2. Download demo versions of Room EQ VST and Headphone EQ VST from https://mathaudio.com/download.htm
3. Add Room EQ VST to Reaper as it is shown at https://mathaudio.com/images/reaper.png
4. Add Headphone EQ VST to Reaper in series with Room EQ VST to process the sweep tone with the Headphone EQ VST.
5. Measure your room and adjust all the desirable settings of both Room EQ and Headphone EQ.
6. Save the presets of both Room EQ and Headphone EQ as .snr and .hdp files correspondingly.
7. Add both Room EQ and Headphone EQ components to Foobar2000 and load the .snr and .hdp files to the corresponding components.
8. Click the "Apply" button.
That's all.

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #186
I just would like to better have the control of what going on during the equalization.
I know the possibility of using the mouse ... but you should know that it has many limitation, low accuracy and practically no way to see exactly what I am doing where... I mean, I cannot dial in precise value I get from another computational model (this just for example).

I second Andrea's wish. I wanted to register Mathaudio for a looooong time, but held back, because it lacks the control one has with other systems. Mathaudio EQ is a "black box" correction. This alone would be fine for me, but I also would like to have control over:

* target curves in a numerical way (for example by importing a custom target curve)
* be able to test different multi-point measurements by
   a) making as many measurements as I want (which are then stored and can be accessed later)
   b) then separately choosing which of those measurements to use for the multi-point calibration

This would give a very effecient way to test if enlarging the multi-point measurement area and / or adding more spots will be benefitial for a specific setup or not.

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #187
I wanted to register Mathaudio for a looooong time,
MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000 is free. You don't need to register it.
I also would like to have control over:
* target curves in a numerical way (for example by importing a custom target curve)
You can already do it. See the first question at our FAQ https://mathaudio.com/room-eq-faq.htm  You can download bruelandkjaer.targetcurve and manually edit its numerical values. You can also import other target curves in the ".targetcurve" format.
I second Andrea's wish.
Room EQ's filters include many hundreds of coefficients. All of them are interrelated. Changing one coefficient totally change the response of Room EQ in hardly predictable way. You can easily get unpleasant instability issues if you change the coefficients manually. This is the case when an automatic method is much more accurate than a manual one.
* be able to test different multi-point measurements by
   a) making as many measurements as I want (which are then stored and can be accessed later)
   b) then separately choosing which of those measurements to use for the multi-point calibration
You can make as many sets of measurements as you wish and store them as SNR files. After that you can use the "Load preset" button to load them one by one and compare the sound.

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #188
Thanks for the answer.
I did not mean Mathaudio for foobar, but the general version which works systemwide.

Great that target curves work now. This is relatively new, was not there when I tested the last time.

My wish on influence was not to be able to configure filters -- I know that a Blackbox approach is given here. My wish was to be able to quicker and easier manage measurements for multiple point calibrations. But it seems this is now also possible. I'll give it a try! :-)

Very curious to see how my tests will turn out! :-)

Thanks for offering the foobar version for free!

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #189
Hi K2K, thank you very much for the beautiful software that I use with Foobar that allows you to easily have an excellent sound. With my system, applying the neutral curve the result is very good, but I miss a bit of bass. In your graph the neutral curve appears to be contained from 20 Hz to 20K within 5 decibels, while in the graphs of the bruel & kjaer 1974 Moller curve the curve appears to be within 6 decibels. Maybe that's why it seems to me that a little bit of bass is missing, they should be increased by about a decibel? Thanks again for the wonderful software

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #190
Hi K2K, thank you very much for the beautiful software that I use with Foobar that allows you to easily have an excellent sound. With my system, applying the neutral curve the result is very good, but I miss a bit of bass. In your graph the neutral curve appears to be contained from 20 Hz to 20K within 5 decibels, while in the graphs of the bruel & kjaer 1974 Moller curve the curve appears to be within 6 decibels. Maybe that's why it seems to me that a little bit of bass is missing, they should be increased by about a decibel? Thanks again for the wonderful software
Hi Enri-audio, if you you wish to try the Bruel & Kjaer curve, you can download it from our web site. See the first question at Room EQ FAQ: https://mathaudio.com/room-eq-faq.htm

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #191
Hi K2K, thanks for the bruel & kjaer curve! I made my hi-fi system with 2 differently positioned subwoofers, two front speakers and two others that play sideways upwards. By controlling the amount of indirect sound there is an almost holographic stereophony. With your system I can simply equalize this complex system, the result is truly excellent, thanks again!
I noticed that if I measure the room with the volume of the sweep a little high, even without any distortion, I get a sound with less low frequencies. if I take the measurement at a lower volume, the graph of the frequency response shifts very slightly downwards but it seems practically the same, yet the bass goes well and the listening is extraordinary. Can you tell me why? Maybe the sweep volume should be similar to the volume used when listening to music? Thank you

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #192
Hi K2K, thanks for the bruel & kjaer curve! I made my hi-fi system with 2 differently positioned subwoofers, two front speakers and two others that play sideways upwards. By controlling the amount of indirect sound there is an almost holographic stereophony. With your system I can simply equalize this complex system, the result is truly excellent, thanks again!
I noticed that if I measure the room with the volume of the sweep a little high, even without any distortion, I get a sound with less low frequencies. if I take the measurement at a lower volume, the graph of the frequency response shifts very slightly downwards but it seems practically the same, yet the bass goes well and the listening is extraordinary. Can you tell me why? Maybe the sweep volume should be similar to the volume used when listening to music? Thank you
Hi Enri-audio, dynamic speakers are non-linear devices. They always produce some non-linear distortion even if you don't hear it. Usually the non-linear distortion increases with the volume and affects the frequency response of speakers. Normally the sweep volume should be similar to your listening volume. Too high sweep volume can reduce the accuracy of the measurement. If you wish to accurately measure the non-linear distortion in your audio system, you can use free MathAudio THD Meter which can be downloaded from https://mathaudio.com/download.htm (you need a demo version of Reaper https://www.reaper.fm or any other DAW to use the THD Meter).

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #193
Hi k2k, I noticed that by measuring the room, decreasing or increasing the buffer of the input and output card, there is a minimal effect on the sound of the equalization. For now in tests that I made a 512 S buffer it sounds better. Can you recommend the optimal values to use?
Should the buffer of Foobar2000 also be changed, or is it bypassed?
Also I would like to know if there is a stand-alone version of Mathaudio to buy, it would be very useful to me.
Thanks and bye!

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #194
Hi k2k, I noticed that by measuring the room, decreasing or increasing the buffer of the input and output card, there is a minimal effect on the sound of the equalization. For now in tests that I made a 512 S buffer it sounds better. Can you recommend the optimal values to use?
Should the buffer of Foobar2000 also be changed, or is it bypassed?
Also I would like to know if there is a stand-alone version of Mathaudio to buy, it would be very useful to me.
Thanks and bye!
Hi  Enri-audio,
The quality of the sound does not depend on the size of the buffer at all, however, if the buffer is too small, old computers may produce pauses between buffers that sound like loud crackles. Foobar2000 and your audio card may use different sizes of buffers - this fact doesn't affect the sound. If you don't hear the loud crackles, the size of the buffer is sufficient and you should not worry about it.
Room EQ can be used as a system wide equalizer on your computer if you need it: https://mathaudio.com/system-wide-eq.htm

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #195
Hi k2k, thank you very much for the possibility that Mathaudio provides as a system equalizer. For the difference in sound of the equalization depending on the buffer, I confirm that I have done hours of listening tests on a hi-end system, which confirm that the 512s setting gives the best results. I repeated the measurements several times; I don't know if this is the only parameter that varies, but for now I have no other hypothesis. I tried starting from 32s to more than 1000, the best results are always at 512 s. In any case, what do you recommend? For example, can the size of the buffers influence the synchronization of the signal, between what comes out of the audio system and what is processed by the software? In this case, should we have the lowest buffer, but compatible with the processing capacity of the PC? Or what could be the reason? Thanks again

Re: MathAudio Room EQ for Foobar2000

Reply #196
Hi k2k, thank you very much for the possibility that Mathaudio provides as a system equalizer. For the difference in sound of the equalization depending on the buffer, I confirm that I have done hours of listening tests on a hi-end system, which confirm that the 512s setting gives the best results. I repeated the measurements several times; I don't know if this is the only parameter that varies, but for now I have no other hypothesis. I tried starting from 32s to more than 1000, the best results are always at 512 s. In any case, what do you recommend? For example, can the size of the buffers influence the synchronization of the signal, between what comes out of the audio system and what is processed by the software? In this case, should we have the lowest buffer, but compatible with the processing capacity of the PC? Or what could be the reason? Thanks again
Hi  Enri-audio,
I have no idea why the buffer of 512 samples can sound better than the buffer of 1024 or 2048 samples. Large size buffers help to avoid interruptions of sound on old slow computers, that is why Foobar2000 uses so large default buffer size (1000 ms). Small size buffers help to reduce the latency of audio systems which is important for direct monitoring, live performances and watching video. If you use Foobar2000 for playing music, the latency is not important, so you can safely use a large buffer size. Room EQ processes all buffer sizes without any distinction - every bit of the digital stream remains the same. Try to set your audio card to the largest possible buffer size to minimize the load on the CPU.

 
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