Major Errors

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Major Errors - Help!

2003-05-08 19:23:09

I Few of the CDs (such as U2 - Best of, Our Lady Peace - Spiritual Machine, ) I'm encoding have some tracks that are coming out all choppy when I play them... (I think jitters is the term everyone here uses in reference to continuous choppiness in an mp3). Thing is, the Cds I'm encoding are in mint condition so there's no reason for there to be errors. I even re-encoded the above mentioned CDs with my friend's copies with the same outcome which tells me it has something to do with the way these CDs were produced.

What confuses me is that if that's an attempt to inhibit encoding, why would those jitters only be on a couple of tracks per CD? Also, in most instance I can start the track at any point in the song and it takes a second before the jitters kick in which tells me that the songs are actually in tact and that the errors are occuring in the playback.

Has anyone experienced this? Is there anything I can do to prevent this outcome?

Thanks

PoM

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #1 – 2003-05-08 20:17:51

You did not say what software you used to rip the CD's. Try using EAC top rip with. I have used this software, it is cardware, and currrently in 0.95pb2 release. It is superb. I have not had the problem you describe. Why don't you try ripiing with EAC and compressing with LAME 3.90.2. These are tried and true packages.

There are more recent compiles of LAME which may be better. But this compile is a known item.

Let us know how you fare.

B)

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #2 – 2003-05-08 20:50:19

I've been using CDex but will give EAC a try and keep you posted. Do I use LAME "exe" or "dll" for EAC?

Thanks for your feedback!

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #3 – 2003-05-08 21:07:42

1) LAME EXE gives you more flexibility in choosing options
2) LAME DLL can encode without temporary files

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #4 – 2003-05-08 21:14:31

Hmm, interestingly enough with some of my CDs I have similar problem. I am very careful about my CDs, always keep them in their case, wipe carefully with a cloth before ripping and didn't notice a scratch on the ones I had problem with. Both CDEx and EAC fails. EAC gives "suspicious position" errors, CDex rips have lots of glitches.

Funnily enough I used Audiograbber with Rip method "Dynamic synch width" and speed reduced to 5X, and it gave a perfect rip. I always use EAC otherwise though. BTW what is the ASPI manager that comes with AudioGrabber (I did not copy Nero ASPI into Audiograbber folder) ?

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #5 – 2003-05-08 23:59:05

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Hmm, interestingly enough with some of my CDs I have similar problem. I am very careful about my CDs, always keep them in their case, wipe carefully with a cloth before ripping and didn't notice a scratch on the ones I had problem with. Both CDEx and EAC fails. EAC gives "suspicious position" errors, CDex rips have lots of glitches.

Funnily enough I used Audiograbber with Rip method "Dynamic synch width" and speed reduced to 5X, and it gave a perfect rip. I always use EAC otherwise though. BTW what is the ASPI manager that comes with AudioGrabber (I did not copy Nero ASPI into Audiograbber folder) ?

What's your CD drive? That's probably the source of the imperfect rips. How secure is AudioGrabber?

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #6 – 2003-05-09 03:14:18

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What's your CD drive? That's probably the source of the imperfect rips. How secure is AudioGrabber?

I have a Lite-On LTR-48246S, one of the best drives for ripping audio (discussed in HA once) because of its amazing C2 accuracy. I don't think it's about the drive. It's definitely about the CDs, because I have 3 such CDs among 350 and it happens with a few tracks in them. Oh, and I also tried to rip them through my DVD player Toshiba SD-M1502 and got the same errors. I don't know how secure AudioGrabber is. But if neither CDEx or EAC works, I need to find a solution AudioGrabber is also used by some members in HA community. I heard about it here. I remember some member strictly using AudioGrabber persuaded that CDEx and EAC are overkill.

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #7 – 2003-05-09 03:26:22

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How secure is AudioGrabber?

It's not secure, since it uses burst mode. On really bad CD's, I've found that switching to burst mode in EAC will occasionally help for some tracks, though not always. AudioGrabber costs $20 and is not what I would call an accurate ripper, or worth the money, since EAC can do what AudioGrabber does (insecure, burst-mode rips) and secure rips, which are much better. Plus, it is cardware (i.e. basically free).

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #8 – 2003-05-09 03:33:19

Ok, is there any technical & precise explanation of how each ripping mode in EAC works somewhere. I just have a vague idea of it, I always stick to the Secure mode.

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #9 – 2003-05-09 03:35:47

Basically, every sector is read at least twice. The EAC webpage has some technical info (though not much) on how this is done: EAC

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #10 – 2003-05-09 03:45:27

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Basically, every sector is read at least twice.

We recently had a discussion of this actually. Someone said if you set "Drive is capable of retrieving C2 error info" EAC blindly trusts the drive and do not read twice. I wonder whether this is true.

How does the paranoid and Synchronized-Fast mode work?

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #11 – 2003-05-09 03:57:24

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Quote
Basically, every sector is read at least twice.

We recently had a discussion of this actually. Someone said if you set "Drive is capable of retrieving C2 error info" EAC blindly trusts the drive and do not read twice. I wonder whether this is true.

How does the paranoid and Synchronized-Fast mode work?

I'm not sure, so I can't answer that. All I know is that on most drives, the C2 feature is not very reliable, so it's best not to use it unless you know that it works. My drive can retrieve C2 info, but I know for a fact that it is not accurate, so I just go with the "default" secure mode.

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #12 – 2003-05-09 05:10:47

is it possible that the CD has copy protection?

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #13 – 2003-05-09 06:41:40

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How does the paranoid and Synchronized-Fast mode work?

Paranoid mode is the same as secure but reads the disc in a smaller sectors.

Regards
A.M.E.D

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #14 – 2003-05-09 07:13:18

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Ok, is there any technical & precise explanation of how each ripping mode in EAC works somewhere. I just have a vague idea of it, I always stick to the Secure mode.

Basically, EAC features 4 read modes:

1. Buffered Burst Mode (aka Burst Mode) -> "normal" and very fast read mode

2. Synchronized Mode (aka Fast Mode) -> often called "jitter-corrected" mode ... fast burst reading with sector overlap and data resynchronization ...

1 & 2 can be used by every ripper that I know (Audiograbber, WinDAC, Feurio!, Easy CDDA < 5.10 ect.)

3. Paranoid Mode (with option to flush the drive cache after each read) -> is not recommended due to higher drive stress ... when encountering errors, the appropriate part is read again and again with decreasing read block sizes

4. Secure Mode (with optional Cache-Flushing and the possibility to use C2 information) ... basically, the secure mode without C2 depends on constant re-reading/comparing of 27-sector read bursts and a certain confidence that erraneous positions never lead to matching read results (single cases have been reported that this doesn't always work) ... if you activate C2, re-reading is carried out only if a C2 error is flagged by the drive itself.

Since many drives (mostly burners) use their internal buffer for storing (caching) audio data, a re-read would be carried out of the drive's buffer itself which will always lead to matching read results so there is an option to flush/overwrite the drive cache with random data after each read of 27 sectors.

If EAC cannot retrieve a matching result after two reads, it will slow down the read process and begin to re-read in smaller block sizes for a maximum of 80 times ... if the same checksum can be retrieved for 8 times, this value is assumed as being the correct one ... if this is not possible, EAC will report a read/sync error and log its position for further listening after the ripping process so you can judge by yourself whether the error is audible or not.

www.digital-inn.de hosts the EAC board where any question on EAC will be answered ... and there are a lot of FAQ's around that will help you to configure EAC ...

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #15 – 2003-05-09 11:09:34

Yes, but Peace of mind said he might have a problem with MP3 playback, not ripping CDs.

Major Errors - Help!

Reply #16 – 2003-05-13 19:19:33

That is correct Pio....

In an update. I've been so busy that I haven't had a time to learn how to set up and use EAC yet. I did however move all my files to my new computer and strangely enough all those jitter infested tracks seem to play back fine. Mystery to me.

It's like I had mentioned, in most instance I was able to start the erred tracks at any point in the song and it took a second before the jitters kicked in which suggested to me that the tracks were actually in tact and that the errors were occuring in the playback.

Anyway, given the act that they playback fine in my new laptop, I wonder if their quality has actually been compromised or not? Perhaps I don't need to re-encode them? Can anyone explain this?

By the way, thanks for everyones help and suggestions.

PoM

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