800+ CD rip - workflow

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800+ CD rip - workflow

2011-02-13 00:52:54

I am re-ripping my audio collection. The last time I did this was in 2002 into iTunes with mp3's at 192 kbps. I don't want to do this ever again.

I want to manage my music in iTunes.

I'd like to use XLD, but it is hardly a hands-off affair. If there are multiple matches, I am required to choose and I don't see what each choice gives me, so if the selection is poor, I need to stop the rip, re-read the CDDB info and select another option. If there is no data, then I need to manually enter the information.

If I manage to actually rip the data, then importing it into iTunes won't allow me to re-lookup the data with Gracenote if I want to, since the required tags are not stored AFAIK during the XLD rip.

What I think I'd like to do since disk space is cheap, is the following:

Rip with XLD into cue/bin
Mount the cue/bin
Import the mounted disk into iTunes

By doing it like that, I get the benefit of error-free ripping from XLD and the benefit of iTunes importing the data from a virtual disk and sticking it's own weird tags where it needs to. I've also found documentation that allows me the option to update the hosts file that will force iTunes to point at other sources - tho I don't know if v10 still works like this.

What I hope to gain from this is that the discs where the data is poor, they'll get updated over time and I'll be able to just instruct iTunes to re-read the Gracenote database and magically stuff will be updated.

What I cannot find is how to fix a few things along the way.

I'd like XLD to store the raw music with a discid as its filename, but when I set the appropriate name in the file output field, I get NO_DISCID as the name, or NO_MSC or NO_ISRC - what is going on?
I'd like to know if others have come up with a better work-flow than the one I'm proposing?

Any feedback welcome.

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #1 – 2011-02-13 01:39:16

I advise using single FLAC or MPEG-4 files (with cue) and normalizing with foobar2000 + r128scan

That's what I'd do. But afterward I would also mark the files READ-ONLY so nothing can screw with my tags without me knowing about it. You want to try preserving the original Gracenote data I cant' tell you how many idiotic programs try editing tags etc without me knowing about it, aka adding wrong lyrics etc.

I know NeroAACEnc can do single MPEG-4 with cue, maybe foobar2000 is better answer idk are you on a macintosh? If yes then just use iTunes like you want.

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #2 – 2011-02-13 01:51:01

Not clear why you need to re rip. Sounds like tags are your only concern.

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #3 – 2011-02-13 02:04:03

Quote from: DigitalMan on 2011-02-13 01:51:01

Not clear why you need to re rip. Sounds like tags are your only concern.

They were ripped at 192 which was fine for playback in the car where I used them for the past 9 years, but the quality isn't anywhere good enough for the living room where stereo artifacts, distortion and other "glitches" show up in a big way.

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #4 – 2011-02-13 02:12:48

Quote from: SamDeRe81 on 2011-02-13 01:39:16

I advise using single FLAC or MPEG-4 files (with cue) and normalizing with foobar2000 + r128scan

That's what I'd do. But afterward I would also mark the files READ-ONLY so nothing can screw with my tags without me knowing about it. You want to try preserving the original Gracenote data I cant' tell you how many idiotic programs try editing tags etc without me knowing about it, aka adding wrong lyrics etc.

I know NeroAACEnc can do single MPEG-4 with cue, maybe foobar2000 is better answer idk are you on a macintosh? If yes then just use iTunes like you want.

First up, I'm using a Mac, *however*, I run VMware Fusion as my desktop with Ubuntu - separate story for another day. In short, I have access to whatever OS you dream up

If I use a single FLAC or MPEG-4, or Apple Lossless (whatever they're calling it), I end up with three files per CD (data, cue and log), which is fine. However it causes two issues:

How do I import this into iTunes so it sees it as an Audio CD and can apply all the iTunes magic to the process?
How do I make XLD give each Audio CD a unique name? XLD gives me the option to name a file for it's diskid, but as I said in my original post, it seems to fill it up with "NO_DISKID", rather than the actual ID. If I just leave XLD to Default, it will name them "Audio CD" and "Audio CD (1)" etc. - but that means that a disc that is read twice (by accident, or duplication in the originals), will not be detected.

I did investigate EAC, but that too didn't explain to me how to make a bin/cue file.

I've been debating about normalising the audio, and I suspect that I'll do that under software control within iTunes, rather than "fix" the actual data file.

Your point about making the files read-only is well made

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #5 – 2011-02-13 04:54:39

I just read XLD doesn't use GraceNote because it's a payed database. I would in that case use iTunes to RIP to Apple Lossless and that's about all you can do. I would expect that is enough, however the other method I suggested is certainly worthwhile as well.

Advantages of the single FLAC + CUE + LOG are that you can:

1. Use VuPlayer AudioTester to verify the FLAC CD's audio CRC (since FLAC stores this) thereby assuring you nothing in the audio has become corrupt or changed down the line.
2. Very easy to manage.
3. Allows you more initial control over the tags because you KNOW iTunes hasn't touched the files yet nor has anything else.
4. You can volume normalize with r128scan + foobar2000

You can then convert them into 256 AAC or something iTunes does work with, but the GraceNote won't be anywhere in that file.

There's one more thing you CAN do, but it's abit goofy.

You could just go crazy since you're only doing this once and do BOTH methods, encode to FLAC + CUE + LOG single files per CD, r128scan them using foobar and mark those read-only afterward. Then immediately use iTunes to encode THE CD to 256 AAC thereby letting it insert GraceNote tags and manage that parallel library which is going to be the main library you're using. You'll have 1 LOSSLESS backup (with r128scan tags) that's able to be scanned using VuPlayer AudioTestor for errors, then another that was encoded by iTunes. LOL

Your choice interesting idea eh?

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #6 – 2011-02-13 06:56:02

I think it's possible that my motivation for ripping with XLD and managing my music in iTunes has been lost in this conversation.

Using iTunes to do a rip with error correction turned on does not give me an accurate rip guarantee, since it doesn't use external resources such as the accurip database specifically created for this purpose. iTunes will either rip the disc or tell me it ripped the disc and only in actual play-back might I learn that a whole track was not completely ripped. iTunes doesn't create logs of the process, it's a hidden adventure that works fine most of the time, but not all of the time. With over 800 discs, I don't want to find out two years from now that a disc failed to rip.

Thus the need to use XLD which does provide me with a guarantee, or failure notification.

However, XLD doesn't manage to gather tags, in my opinion, any reliable way. When iTunes rips a disc, it stores some meta-data with the rip - the documentation and my research have not yet been able to uncover how exactly this is done, but the result of this attached meta-data is that tracks are recognised as an album *and* - more importantly - you can get iTunes to re-lookup the disc from an external database such as Gracenote (or workarounds to use other databases).

This means that if initial album detection in iTunes was flawed, say you chose the wrong matching artist because the disc matches several entries, you can fix it.

If I rip with XLD, I get accurate ripping guaranteed, but poor tags. If I rip with iTunes I get better tag management, but not guaranteed rip results.

This is fundamentally why I want to use XLD (or EAC) to copy to a file that I can mount as a virtual disc where I point iTunes to rip it from - I hope to have my cake and eat it too.

I'm not really wanting to debate FLAC vs. Apple Lossless, since there is ample discussion about this already - and ultimately why I chose to post in this forum - because there was so much informed debate. I've chosen Apple Lossless, since it is lossless, it integrates well with OS X and I can re-encode it into any other lossy format for my car/phone/etc. if required.

As I said when I started this question; disc space is cheap. I don't want to ever rip my discs again.

Finally, one oversight in my original question, was what to do with hybrid cd's, discs that contain both data and audio. XLD doesn't seem to deal with the data component at all. I've not got any evidence what iTunes does, but I suspect it ignores it as well.

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #7 – 2011-02-13 10:09:52

Quote from: SamDeRe81 on 2011-02-13 01:39:16

I would also mark the files READ-ONLY so nothing can screw with my tags without me knowing about it.

That's a good practice, I do it too.. BUT one has to remember/know that it isn't a fool-proof method of protecting your files as many programs do not obey the read-only file attribute.

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #8 – 2011-02-13 10:34:20

Quote from: Akkurat on 2011-02-13 10:09:52

That's a good practice, I do it too.. BUT one has to remember/know that it isn't a fool-proof method of protecting your files as many programs do not obey the read-only file attribute.

Yes, I was thinking that some unscrupulous programs might unmark the read-only file attribute just so they can edit the tags LOL But then again someone would have to be pretty insightful to think of that and add it to their audio player whatever it may be.

PS I like cats

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #9 – 2011-02-13 10:43:25

Many ways to Roma but none of this ways is ideal.

Use of AccurateRip: the few rippers supporting this don’t use a well-structured (paid) database
Use of a structured database like Gracesnotes, rippers like iTunes don’t support AccurateRip

If operating system is not a problem: Win+ dbPoweramp=AccurateRip + AMG database
Anything else like XLD will make it a 2 stage affair,
- rip against AccurateRip
- correct the tags with iTunes

800+ CD rip - workflow

Reply #10 – 2011-02-14 02:25:24

If OS is not an issue, then I'd rip with dbPowerAmp Reference and get the assurance of AccurateRip along with the ability to get my metadata from AMG.
It just seems to be the simplest way to get where you want to be.

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