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Topic: CUE sheet specifying incorrect gap information (Read 3862 times) previous topic - next topic
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CUE sheet specifying incorrect gap information

Hi,

for several months now, I have been archiving CDs in FLAC format, using these options in EAC:

- Append gaps to previous track
- Create CUE sheet for multiple WAVs with corrected gaps.

I did this because I read about it in the PiMP guide and blindly trusted it.

I just burned an Audio CD from such a CUE sheet for the first time (using Nero), and had to find out that the track marks are completely messed up - the music starts playing while the CD player is still reading the pre-gap (i.e., the CD player displays, for example, -0:03).

I can see why this is the case - the CUE sheet I created earlier specifies that the gaps (00 indexes) are at the beginning of every WAV file, when in fact they're at the end of each previous track.

I know I could just forget the CUE sheet and burn all tracks with no gap in between, but I'd rather prefer an exact copy if possible (Warm Fuzzy Feeling ). Thing is - how do I do this if I can't access the original CD anymore?

Unless my logic fails, one could work out a "correct" CUE sheet - i.e., the CUE sheet that would be created when using the "with current gap settings" option - through some (more or less ) simple calculations. For example, if this is the beginning of my CUE sheet...

Code: [Select]
FILE "Bruce Springsteen - 01 - Ain't Got You.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Ain't Got You"
    PERFORMER "Bruce Springsteen"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Bruce Springsteen - 02 - Tougher Than The Rest.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Tougher Than The Rest"
    PERFORMER "Bruce Springsteen"
    INDEX 00 00:00:00
    INDEX 01 00:03:70


...one could work out at which position in the first file the index 00 for track 2 would have to be, by subtracting track 2's "INDEX 01" value from the length of the first file (~2:11 mins). But this would be a real pain in the ass to do - imagine, determining the accurate lengths of the WAV files, doing the calculations, and re-writing the CUE sheet... no thank you.

Now, my question is: Is there any way to have a program do this automatically? Or, even better, is there any way to burn a CD from the unedited CUE sheet that will still work the way I'd like it to?

Damn... I don't feel like hunting down all those library CDs again, just to create a new CUE sheet

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

CU

Dominic

PS: I did read MestreLion's CUE sheet tutorial (would have been a good idea to do so before starting archiving...), but it doesn't help me in this situation - basically, it explains what I have just found out myself.

PPS: Man, the maximum length for the topic title/description is so short, I couldn't think of any combination that actually described my problem!

CUE sheet specifying incorrect gap information

Reply #2 –
Quote
When you use this gap method Ithink you must use EAC to burn.

No, it will do the same as Nero, foobar (and probably most other CUE-aware apps) will do.


Hmm. I found out about Case's CUE sheet fixer in this thread - I haven't tried it yet, but it seems to me that it might be the solution to the problem. I'm guessing I'll have to concatenate all WAV files to one large image file for it to work, but I could be wrong. I'll check it out...

CUE sheet specifying incorrect gap information

Reply #3 –
Yes Volcano, you are on the good track now 

About that warm fuzzy feeling... better use no cue sheet at all than a bad one!! Use your brains and you'll see why...
The objective of the PiMP guide is good (they seem to have wanted an eac-independent cue sheet), but in reality it is a blunder. For some reason only half of the info is told, causing a lot of ppl to do wrong things. Being more critical... sometimes we want to save off time, but later we regret it (up till half a year ago I used to burn CDs in Nero and didn't know Nero inserted extra pregaps...  )

The best way to make cue sheets is either using the normal cue command
(btw remember that each command belongs to a pregap manipulation way, but I'll assume you use the default way, 'append gaps to previous', this is the same as doing nothing on condition that you havent done a gap detection)
'cue for wavs with gaps' , but this cue sheet cannot be handled by a lot of programs (you are bound to EAC and a few others). If you dont want that (e.g. your burner is not supported by EAC) then you could make a 'wrong' cue ('cue for corrected gaps') and afterwards use Case's Cuefix.
Although imo Case means quality, I would still thoroughly test it before using it (better use no cue sheet than a wrong one)    For one can immediately see a few delicate things such as the session pregap that is yes or no included in the cue info and might give a shift you dont want

EDIT: I recently found that EAC is kind of 'lazy' when it has to make cue sheets. After an (internal) gap detection it sometimes forgets to retrieve ISRC codes (not that important, but if you want to do the job as good as possible...). EAC can be forced however, by either first detecting gaps, or not saving the first cue sheet but giving a second 'make cue sheet' command. I dont know how this comes, a bug maybe (I'll report to André)

CUE sheet specifying incorrect gap information

Reply #4 –
CUEFIX did it. The only drawback I see in this method is that I have to use Winamp's diskwriter in single-file mode to join all WAVs (since FLAC can't decode into one file as MPPDEC does) which is unnecessary additional work, but oh well. (BTW, I did make sure that the sound data isn't altered by Winamp - original WAVs and WAVs passed through Winamp are bit-identical.)

And once more Case comes to the rescue with one of those nifty little few-KB programs, after sweep and copytags...


liekloo:

Quote
The objective of the PiMP guide is good (they seem to have wanted an eac-independent cue sheet), but in reality it is a blunder. For some reason only half of the info is told, causing a lot of ppl to do wrong things.


Yeah, this is a point that needs changing IMHO. EAC-independant or not, the CUE option the guide suggests is contradictory to the suggested gap mode. At least there should be a notice stating that simply loading that CUE file up in a burning program will not do the trick. MTRH...?


Quote
Although imo Case means quality, I would still thoroughly test it before using it (better use no cue sheet than a wrong one)  For one can immediately see a few delicate things such as the session pregap that is yes or no included in the cue info and might give a shift you dont want


Well, in this case, it worked flawlessly as there weren't any pre-gaps on the CD. I'll find out later whether or not it removes, for example, PRE-EMPHASIS flags. (I'll be very careful about that, because pre-emphasis CDs sound really harsh when they're not filtered properly.) Worry not, I shall not be fooled by CUE sheets again. 

CU

Dominic

CUE sheet specifying incorrect gap information

Reply #5 –
Quote
delicate things such as the session pregap that is yes or no included in the cue info and might give a shift you dont want

hmm this is of course not an issue if your drive doesnt have overread enabled (most drives)

edit:
Quote
Worry not, I shall not be fooled by CUE sheets again.

hehe 

CUE sheet specifying incorrect gap information

Reply #6 –
Yes, it's about time to make a new cue-sheet standard. The current one is poorly designed and has very low time precision, thus we need a new standard which has precision down to the very last sample.

If anyone else feels the same, then perhaps we should make one together so it becomes a format of the "community" and not one of a single person...?
 

CUE sheet specifying incorrect gap information

Reply #7 –
Markers are set for whole sectors of 588 samples, you can't define a track marker at any sample. The burner just won't accept it.