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Topic: Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly (Read 4827 times) previous topic - next topic
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Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

I've been following Porchephile's topic about ultimate sonic quality with a laptop in hopes that some replies would expand into the area I'm seeking.  Since that has not quite yet happened here begins a slightly new topic.

Similar to Porchephile, I am giving thought to the purchase of a laptop that provides good sound quality but even more importantly is capable of handling sophisticated sound file analysis.  In particular, I'm seeking a desktop replacement that will not be strained to its limits with software intended for spectrography, sonograms, Fast Fourier Transforms, etc.  What about the issue of 64 bit computing already upon us?

The goal of this posting is not necessarily specific computer manufacturers and models (although that will be most welcomed), but rather what internal components will be required to achieve my digital audio goals.  Earlier postings dating back to June 2003 have provided good material yet all are within the context of desktop computers. Two full years also have passed since June 2003 with tremendous computer advancement during that time.

In addition to the computer specification needed for my goals I'm also concerned about reports of laptops readily over heating.  I have experience only with desktop computers and am at a loss even to know what issues I should be investigating relative to laptops.

Any and all information will be appreciated.  Thanks.

Scott

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #1
I'm an audio engineer and the laptop I assembled has been a bit of a nigthmare.

I built it as a no holds-barred computing beast. 

It consists of:

A desktop Pentium 4 3Ghz @ 800Mhz FSB
1GB RAM
5200RPM drive

I'll tell you that it has some serious issues with overheating.  I cannot run the thing resting on any sort of coth surface without it overheating and shutting down.  Sometimes during summer my lap won't even work because it gets too hot to be comfortable. 

So be careful when selecting your componants.  I bought quality stuff but got a little carried away with performance.  It ended up reducing the reliability and useablity of the machine in the long run.  If I could underclock it I would.

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #2
For sound quality on a laptop, you're probably better to go with an external USB sound device, such as the mAudio Transit. Just a thought.

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #3
Excellent answers and just exactly the type of issues of which I was hoping to learn.

Carlos:  The mAudio Transit is a totally new item to me.  It's interesting and something I definately intend to follow.  Thanks.

OnyxRev:  You have confirmed my fears, but it's better to know before than afterwards.  In retrospect how would you have changed those three parameters (i.e. processor, ram, drive) in order to accomplish your goals without the hassle you've experienced?  Of course you don't know what I wish to accomplish - and neither do I precisely at this point - but undoubtedly it's accurate to say that as an Audio Engineer you have far greater requirements from a laptop than do I.  Thank you as well for your input.

Scott

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #4
audiologist: Make sure you get a laptop with the Centrino chipset. These computers use the low power, albeit high performance Pentium M. Combined with a good battery you should be able to get up to 4.5h of batterylife, and without any overheating problems. RAM doesn't affect power consumption/heat very much. The RPM on the HDD may affect batterylife a little, but a 5400 RPM drive is much faster than a 4200 RPM one.
I'd go with a 5400 RPM drive.
There's also PCMIA soundcards, might be worth looking in to.

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #5
I agree with this.  A mobile processor is the way to go.  The other caveat about my system is the battery only lasts 45 minutes. 

For me, it wasn't much of a choice.  I max out that system's power on a daily basis so any less power wouldn't work for my needs.  It's a big catch 22. 

For you, the Pentium M works pretty well and is a good compromise.  RAM will not affect your heat much.  The hard drive will reduce batter life, as Hamman said, but will be worthwhile for anything intensive.  Keep in mind that you can always hook up an external 7200 or even 10,000 drive via USB or firewire for critical applications.  The main thing is that desktop CPU.  As powerful as they are, they don't really belong in laptops.  If you skip that route, you'll have much fewer headaches.

Good luck!



Quote
audiologist: Make sure you get a laptop with the Centrino chipset. These computers use the low power, albeit high performance Pentium M. Combined with a good battery you should be able to get up to 4.5h of batterylife, and without any overheating problems. RAM doesn't affect power consumption/heat very much. The RPM on the HDD may affect batterylife a little, but a 5400 RPM drive is much faster than a 4200 RPM one.
I'd go with a 5400 RPM drive.
There's also PCMIA soundcards, might be worth looking in to.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=310304"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #6
Audiologist, I've found that you can get surprisingly good sound from even a humble laptop's sound chip - e.g. my T42's onboard / Soundmax setup. In its current state, and using appropriate foobar DSPs, the quality is much better than my old SB Live with SPDIF outputs.

Nevertheless after a reasonable amount of research, I'm going for an Echo Indigo IO to push the audio quality envelope a bit further. The M-Audio transit seemed a good product too, but one of my reasons for switching to using a laptop was to get away from all those irritating wires and boxes hanging all over the place. If I had more money though, I would go for the E-MU 1616M, no questions asked.

I can't recomment the Pentium M processor more highly - I can get upto 5 hours battery life, and even after hours and hours at 100% CPU utilisation, theres just a waft of warm air coming out of my laptop. Credit to IBM's thorough engineering for that too.

As for HDD rpm affecting battery life - it doesn't - there's an article on THG that does exactly that comparison and there's negligible power consumption differences.

Still, I use a 7200rpm USB 2 external drive to complement the 4200rpm internal drive on my Thinkpad...

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #7
Depending on what you want to do, you might want to consider a digital oscilloscope that connects to the PC/Laptop. Something like the TiePie HS4 or the Elan Digital USBScope50.

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #8
Quote
I built it as a no holds-barred computing beast. 

It consists of:

A desktop Pentium 4 3Ghz @ 800Mhz FSB

I'll tell you that it has some serious issues with overheating.  I cannot run the thing resting on any sort of coth surface without it overheating and shutting down.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=310174"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If you want maximum performance in a laptop, probably athlon64 is the way to go.  It will also run much cooler than a Pentium 4.

A high end Pentium M would come close (maybe even beat) a 3 GHz Pentium4 while giving you a cooler, lighter, longer running total package.


Dual CPU mobile chips will be here before you know it.  As always, todays hottie is tomorrows dinosaur.

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #9
Audiologist,
The other thing to consider is what apps are you going to run that will actually utilise a 64 bit processor?
As I understand it (and anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong), 32 bit apps won't run any faster on a 64 bit machine. This means, you need an app that has been specifically written to make use of the 64 bit architecture.
Not sure about the HDD speed issues... I've never even owned a laptop! What strikes me about the figures that others in this thread have mentioned is that there seems to be an attitude that 5400rpm is standard and/or adequate for notebooks. I know that from a multitrack audio POV (on a desktop), I'd never run anything slower than a 7200rpm drive. Of course, many have pointed out that you could run an external USB drive which would probably make more sense.
Then you've got the issue of sound cards/chips. Like I said, I've never owned a laptop, but the thought of using an onboard audio chip scares the crap outta me! Too many gadgets crammed in side by side like that... "What's a nice audio signal like you doin' in a dump like this?"
I'm guessing that if you're an audiologist, you're dealing with measuring people's hearing? And if that's the case, then you're more than likely to be dealing (on a regular basis) with signal levels that are measured WAY DOWN from 0dBFS.... like 60 and 70dB down, am I right? And if that is the case, then you are going to need some SERIOUS fidelity with your audio device of choice. In which case, I would highly recommend checking out all the external device choices on the market.
Best of luck with it all.
Cheers,
Bruce.
www.audio2u.com
The home of quality podcasts
(including Sine Language, a weekly discussion on all things audio)

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #10
Basicly the Athlon64/Turion64 are very well designed processors that have superior performance to the Pentium4s.  This higher performance at slower clock rates has nothing to do with the 64bit capabilities of the chip.  I could babble on about all the architecture changes they made with onboard memory controllers and stuff like that, but just know they are fast and cooler than P4s.

The 64 bit part of the chips won't help you unless you are feeling the pinch of the current 4GB limit on your current computing.  Right now the concensus is that it's not worth switching to WinXP 64bit and dealing with the new immature 64 bit drivers just so you have the option to run more ram than you have money (or the slots) for.

I wouldn't put anything into a laptop computer but a P-M.  Intel hit the jackpot with that design.  It is really great chip.  It's very powerful, sips battery power and runs very cool.  Not to mention that it's cheap enough that anyone who wants a laptop can afford to get one with a P-M in it.

Just a quick note....

Athlon64s are consistently benchmarked as faster in all computer tasks except content creation (video rendering and audio encoding).  The difference isn't big, but it is widely accepted that pumping out video and sound is going to be a bit faster on the equivalent P4.  It's not like any of us are going to realize the difference between an A64 3000 and a P4 3000.  Both are bloody fast and amazing performers for their market position. (Pretty much the average machine now.)  I just thought I'd mention that, as it is relavent to what people on these forums are looking to do with their computers.

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #11
Wow!  What tremendous responses to my initial post!  I was certain that there would be at least a couple of replies since laptops supposedly are the "hot" computer item in recent days, but I didn't think I'd receive the wealth of information that has been assembled.  Now comes the difficulty part - attempting to sort through each of your excellent suggestions and making application to my own specific needs.  Thanks to each of you.

And for Audio2u and Vodka Mike, my appreciation for adding information about 64 bit computing.  That issue also has been playing upon my mind.  You've supplied information worthy of consideration.

Yes, as an audiologist, I am interested in using software on a laptop for professional purposes.  But even more so I'm rapidly developing a recreational interest in ecological acoustics, phonography, and R. Murray Schafer's soundscape endeavors.  Hopefully I'll be able to record ambient sounds on a high quality digtal recorder then use the laptop to perform an acoustical analysis of the sound that has been captured.

And now something of a sashay from my original question -------

Bruce, of www.audio2u.com, is that you?  You ole Aussie Son-Of-A-Gun?  Unless I've missed my quess you've really got something going with your new podcast!  Your review of Adobe Audition in 'Building The Pod' is tremendous.  I'm archiving each edition since Audition is an audio editing software currently under my consideration.  Dom Romeo's music and comedy reviews in 'Bum Notes' and 'Stand and Deliver', respectively, are a must listen.  How did Dom know that I'm interested in the Glastonbury Festival?      Since I'm gadget oriented Alex Zaharov-Reutt really pics my interest in 'Fuzzy Logic.'  And it appears that you have four or five other offerings in process.  Can't wait to learn what 'Word of the Day" is all about.  Thanks for presenting some quality podcasting.

Scott

 

Similar To "Ultimate Laptop Sound" Yet Not Exactly

Reply #12
Scott,
Thanks heaps for the feedback on the podcasting!
I have been bouncing off the ceiling ever since I first heard about podcasting 6 weeks ago, and I've spent almost every spare hour since either mixing the podcasts, or working on the website!
So, I can assure you, it's really nice to know that someone out there is getting something out of it! I trust that over the weeks and months, the content continues to engage yourself, and hopefully others as well.
Thanks for the kind words of encouragement.
Cheers,
Bruce.
www.audio2u.com
The home of quality podcasts
(including Sine Language, a weekly discussion on all things audio)