Benefits of OGG VORBIS over other formats

2004-12-16 16:38:32

My Title should have read Benefits of Ogg Vorbis over other Lossy Formats


I have been reading about the Ogg Vorbis format for the last month trying to get an idea of its benefits, quality and its uses in comparision to MP3 (lame). I am looking at converting my FLAC files for use on a portable player and for use on certain types of music (Cuban, Hardcore) where the quality doesnt matter and is not as noticable.

After reading many reviews and posts I keep noticing a common thought outside of this forum, that better quality can be achieved with Ogg Vorbis not only with a a lower file size but overall. But after reading alot of posts here I am feeling that its more that Ogg Vorbis does a btter job at compression partially due to VBR and that the quality between MP3 and Ogg Vorbis is pretty much the same.  You may be able to have a Ogg Vorbis file that is a bit smaller than your MP3 file but that quality is pretty similar.

Am I on the right track?

Benefits of OGG VORBIS over other formats

Reply #1 – 2004-12-16 17:05:04

ogg = file extension / container format
vorbis = lossy audio compression format

when people refer to "ogg" they usually mean "Ogg Vorbis".

it's like
avi = file extension / container format
divx = lossy video compression format

moreover "lame" is neither a container nor a lossy audio compression format. It's an encoder which produces compressed audio files compatible to the MPEG audio layer 3 specification (mp3).

So, we have three different things...
- container formats
- lossy compression formats
- encoders

Therefore, comparing "lame" to "ogg" or "lame" to "vorbis" does not make sense - strictly speaking. What most people actually mean is: "The Ogg Vorbis Format seems to be better than MP3 since there's an encoder available which produces Ogg Vorbis files with a higher quality-per-bit ratio than any available mp3 encoder can produce." - Even if this is currently not 100% true for all kinds of bitrate ranges it's likely that there exists (in theory) such an Ogg Vorbis encoder (speculating).


SebastianG

Benefits of OGG VORBIS over other formats

Reply #2 – 2004-12-16 17:19:58

Thanks for the correction, I made the changes so I think it is clearer.

Benefits of OGG VORBIS over other formats

Reply #3 – 2004-12-16 17:35:52

According to recent test results the aoTuV beta2 Ogg Vorbis encoder scored higher than LAME (which is considered a very good mp3 encoder) in the 128ish kbps area. This also holds for lower bitrates. - I'm not going to claim anything about their high bitrate performance ...

(google for roberto & "listening test")

SebastianG

Benefits of OGG VORBIS over other formats

Reply #4 – 2004-12-16 17:52:19

Bitrate for bitrate and file size for file size, I think Vorbis will always be better than MP3 at it's best. I spent an entire weekend a while back just ABX'ing all the lossy formats, and this was one of the conclusions I came to. Especially around 128k or so. Vorbis also has the potential for 100% transparency with all samples at some point eventually (depends on your hearing of course), while the best MP3 can do is 320k CBR and never will be 100% transparent with all samples (same with WMA standard too, unless you go lossless... though it did seem transparent with a problem sample I was using at the highest VBR level which was over 400kbps I think, lol). Vorbis does have a down side though, as it tends to drain the battery on my Karma faster. All in all, you should really do your own tests and come to your own conclusions since artifacts will definitely play a role in low bitrate usage, and you may find MP3 artifacts more pleasing than the artifacts caused by Vorbis (I don't personally). Everybody's hearing is different, and what works for me may not work for others.