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Poll

20KHz or above
[ 5 ] (8.3%)
19KHz-20KHz
[ 15 ] (25%)
18KHz-19KHz
[ 16 ] (26.7%)
17KHz-18KHz
[ 6 ] (10%)
16KHz-17KHz
[ 10 ] (16.7%)
15KHz-16KHz
[ 7 ] (11.7%)
15KHz or below
[ 1 ] (1.7%)

Total Members Voted: 69

Topic: How high can you hear? (Read 16954 times) previous topic - next topic
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How high can you hear?

Reply #50 –
Quote
Originally posted by Frank Klemm
CD players are able to generate useful tones up to 16 kHz, not more.
:coding:

How high can you hear?

Reply #51 –
Quote
Originally posted by Garf
What Frank meant is that the cutoff is not a hard limit, but a slope which is dependent on the exact playback loudness.

You are most likely hearing distortion from you equipment, not the actual 22kHz wave. A CD player will lowpass at 20kHz, so it is not possible to perform hearing tests above that anyway.

-- 
GCP


The lowpass filter is not the biggest problem. The mirror
frequency rejection is IMHO the bigger problem which generates
distortions in a frequency range where the ear is extremly
sensitive.

And with loudspeaker hum and noise pumping are your enemies.

For usable listening tests use:
  - a stabilized power supply
  - an analog sine generator
--  Frank Klemm

How high can you hear?

Reply #52 –
Quote
Originally posted by Frank Klemm

What quantization operator Q was used to generate the signals you analyzed? How was satisfied that
uncertainty is at least fs bps?


I used SoundForge 4.5 tools/synthesis/simple, therefore I have no control over those parameters. I assumed it generated truncated values of a true sine.

How high can you hear?

Reply #53 –
Quote
Originally posted by JohnV
Try: http://www.pcabx.com/program/ABX173_setup.exe

I'd like to see your results. No cheating then please..


... ok, you have me 

my abx results are horrible. with the castanets sample i got 20%. *lol*

Dezibel

How high can you hear?

Reply #54 –
Quote
Originally posted by Case

SB Live! and Audigy both have this aliasing problem. Users with those cards should resample signals to 48kHz or use kX Project drivers.


Case,  do you think the kX drivers cause an Audigy to filter the aliasing differently?  I'm not sure what the internal archetecture is like..  I guess it's possible (probable?) for the antialiasing filter to be a software DSP routine, rather than a physical filter.    Have you run the kX drivers,  and tried this at 44.1Khz?

I tried re-recording my 10-20Khz sweep file I made in Cool Edit,  at 48Khz sample rate,  and it sounded completely clean,  and looked pure when I played it into a spectrogram program.  Big difference from 44.1Khz.  I'm a little nervous about loading the kX drivers,  my system is shakey enough as is without any more driver installing and removing..  We'll see. 

So,  looks like 96Khz isn't required,  though what little that still has to be there even though I'm not hearing it,  would be that much smaller.

How high can you hear?

Reply #55 –
Quote
Originally posted by JonPike
do you think the kX drivers cause an Audigy to filter the aliasing differently?  I'm not sure what the internal archetecture is like..  I guess it's possible (probable?) for the antialiasing filter to be a software DSP routine, rather than a physical filter.    Have you run the kX drivers,  and tried this at 44.1Khz?

The kX drivers output sounds using rear speaker line, which uses I2S codec. I assume it doesn't have to resample, because the front speaker lineout with AC97 codec sounds so much worse.
I use kX drivers myself, and am very happy with them. And to answer your guestion, yes, this sweep is very clean even with 44.1kHz sampling rate.

Quote
I tried re-recording my 10-20Khz sweep file I made in Cool Edit,  at 48Khz sample rate,  and it sounded completely clean,  and looked pure when I played it into a spectrogram program.  Big difference from 44.1Khz.  I'm a little nervous about loading the kX drivers,  my system is shakey enough as is without any more driver installing and removing..  We'll see.   

If you don't play games and need EAX effects, I highly recommend using kX drivers. They are updated lot more frequently than Creative's drivers and they are already less buggy.
Get them from http://www.kxproject.com/

How high can you hear?

Reply #56 –
Quote
Originally posted by Case

The kX drivers output sounds using rear speaker line, which uses I2S codec. I assume it doesn't have to resample, because the front speaker lineout with AC97 codec sounds so much worse.
I use kX drivers myself, and am very happy with them. And to answer your guestion, yes, this sweep is very clean even with 44.1kHz sampling rate.


Interesting..  the more I thought about it,  the more likely it seemed that "it's all software",  and looking at the card shows there is very little analog circutry there.    I wonder if the kX guys are writing in the codecs yet,  or just talking to the pre existing ones..  I assume you mean the problem is still there using the AC97 output?  Or is their's better?

Quote
If you don't play games and need EAX effects, I highly recommend using kX drivers. They are updated lot more frequently than Creative's drivers and they are already less buggy.
Get them from http://www.kxproject.com/


That's the problem..  I still play some games on occasion, and so need my "normal" PC soundcard capabilities..  though I'm starting to dabble in music on the computer.  Seems it's hard to have something that will do both well...
in drivers or in hardware!

Someday..

How high can you hear?

Reply #57 –
The Terratec DMX 6fire supports A3D, EAX, Dolby Digital, DTS, and doesn't resample !

How high can you hear?

Reply #58 –
Quote
Originally posted by JonPike

Interesting..  the more I thought about it,  the more likely it seemed that "it's all software",  and looking at the card shows there is very little analog circutry there.    I wonder if the kX guys are writing in the codecs yet,  or just talking to the pre existing ones..  I assume you mean the problem is still there using the AC97 output?  Or is their's better?

Maybe you're right. I should read their documents to be sure though, but it seems AC97 is better too with their drivers. The aliasing problem is not present anymore. Maybe they mix better to 48kHz.

Quote
That's the problem..   I still play some games on occasion, and so need my "normal" PC soundcard capabilities..  though I'm starting to dabble in music on the computer.   Seems it's hard to have something that will do both well...
in drivers or in hardware!

I too play sometimes, but I don't mind loosing EAX effects that much. Everything else seems to work well. Besides, the features are added quite often. Maybe the EAX gets support soon.

How high can you hear?

Reply #59 –
Quote
Originally posted by Case

I too play sometimes, but I don't mind loosing EAX effects that much. Everything else seems to work well. Besides, the features are added quite often. Maybe the EAX gets support soon.


Does this mean they work OK with games that don't use EAX or other 3d sound?

Most of what I play dosen't,  so I'd try them in a minute.. 

How's the ease of removal and reinstalling?

TNX

BTW, to a moderator,  I'd like to request again to have my vote for 14Khz removed and put in the next range up..  my pride as the possibly oldest fart here demands it!!  ;-)

Jon
 

How high can you hear?

Reply #60 –
Quote
Originally posted by JonPike

Does this mean they work OK with games that don't use EAX or other 3d sound?

Yes, you can play any game, but EAX will be disabled. Current drivers emulate Direct3D through Direct2D which is fully supported.

Quote
How's the ease of removal and reinstalling?

It's recommended to uninstall Creative's drivers before using kX, but I can say from personal experience that they work even without doing so. The latest versions have nice easy to use setup program that takes care of installation. Uninstalling is very easy too, there will be icon in start menu for that.