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Topic: DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible? (Read 14542 times) previous topic - next topic
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DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Hi all,

I have some DTS-WAV(From a DTS CD)  files I'd like to convert to DTS-FLAC, but foobar2000 thinks it's a normal FLAC file.

Is there a way to send the decoded FLAC stream to foo_input_dts?

I even tried naming the files .flac.dts and .dts.flac to no avail.

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #1 –
No. Decode it to wav. You don't gain much (anything?) by using FLAC on DTS anyway, as it's not PCM and FLAC can't handle it, and it's already compressed anyway.

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: david_dl on
No. Decode it to wav. You don't gain much (anything?) by using FLAC on DTS anyway, as it's not PCM and FLAC can't handle it, and it's already compressed anyway.

Well, a 57MB WAV with DTS went down to 51MB FLAC... only 6MB on a 200GB partition

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #3 –
Converting DTS to FLAC won't make a lot of difference. DTS is already a lossy codec (I think it uses a techinque similar to AD-PCM) - for example, a generic DTS-WAV (16-bit, 44100Hz - 1411kbps) when uncompressed is 4233kbps, as it is actually 6 x 16 x 44100 (not 2 x 16 x 44100).

So FLAC (I tried a DTS-WAV with WavPack - similar size) actually is encoding a 4233kbps 6 channel WAV, and so the compression ratio is actually very high.

If you want a smaller multichannel file, then encode into a lossy format such as Ogg Vorbis or AAC, as there is little (if any) size benefit from having a lossless version (although compatibilty may be better).

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #4 –
The thing is that I want to keep the signal DTS. The DTS compressed signal is in an uncompressed 16-bit 44.1kHz WAV file. When I encode the WAV to FLAC, the file size goes down by 10%. But since I don't have a bit-perfect card, the DTS stream in the FLAC could only be decoded by foo_input_DTS, which is only working with DTS streams from WAV files.

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #5 –
So you're feeding compressed DTS into the FLAC encoder?

If so, why not try 7z or RAR?  I suspect a dedicated file compressor would work better then FLAC since the input isn't actually PCM.

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #6 –
DTS-WAV is just noise/static when you playback as a WAV file in a player that does not understand the "DTS" part of the header as it is compressed audio that requires a DTS decoder to decode. I think, if I understand correctly, that you wish to compress the DTS-WAV file (as a 2-channel 44.1kHz 16-bit LPCM file - so compressed "noise") into FLAC, and then playback direct with the audio decoded using foo_input_dts?

That would require two decoding processes to occure - the first to decode the FLAC into a stereo WAV, and the second to decode the stereo WAV (DTS-WAV) into audible 6 channel LPCM. AFAIO, that is not possible to do - would be interesting it it were?

If you decompress it into a 6 channel WAV you still get a failry decent file size, although not as much as the DTS-WAV. I tried it on a 38.1MB DTS-WAV. This decompressed is 114.0MB, and compressed into FLAC -8 (FLAC 1.1.4 - had to enable "--channel-map=none" as it was not WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE) it is 40.0MB.

So there is a 1.9MB (about 5%) loss is size, however it is a playable 6 channel FLAC file. I don't know whether the channel mappings were correct - probably not, but they could be reordered.

DTS is generally preferred over Dolby Digital for being "truer" to the original as it is not as compressed. There, however, very little difference between the two - perhaps the bass is tweaked slightly on one or the other (and DD is naturally quieter) - but in the long run they are similar. So (I will get to the point now ), compressing the audio into a lossy format at a high bitrate (such as Vorbis, AAC, WavPack lossy) should make no/very little perceivable difference providing they are transparent. If HDD space is a issue, then that is what I recommend (although you said you have a 200GB HDD ). Otherwise, why compress into FLAC to save 10% of the file size?

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #7 –
Quote
DTS-WAV is just noise/static when you playback as a WAV file in a player that does not understand the "DTS" part of the header as it is compressed audio that requires a DTS decoder to decode. I think, if I understand correctly, that you wish to compress the DTS-WAV file (as a 2-channel 44.1kHz 16-bit LPCM file - so compressed "noise") into FLAC, and then playback direct with the audio decoded using foo_input_dts?

Yep!

Quote
That would require two decoding processes to occure - the first to decode the FLAC into a stereo WAV, and the second to decode the stereo WAV (DTS-WAV) into audible 6 channel LPCM. AFAIO, that is not possible to do - would be interesting it it were?
It could be interesting I think, even if the space saving is small. 10% of 600MB is 60MB.

Quote
Otherwise, why compress into FLAC to save 10% of the file size?

Embedded cuesheet. Makes less files and folders.

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #8 –
Arite, your post really explained me a lot on how dts-wav files work. Thanks for your time!

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Arite on
DTS-WAV is just noise/static when you playback as a WAV file in a player that does not understand the "DTS" part of the header as it is compressed audio that requires a DTS decoder to decode. I think, if I understand correctly, that you wish to compress the DTS-WAV file (as a 2-channel 44.1kHz 16-bit LPCM file - so compressed "noise") into FLAC, and then playback direct with the audio decoded using foo_input_dts?

That would require two decoding processes to occure - the first to decode the FLAC into a stereo WAV, and the second to decode the stereo WAV (DTS-WAV) into audible 6 channel LPCM. AFAIO, that is not possible to do - would be interesting it it were?

...

I'm confusing why after "flac.exe --channels 6 some-track.dts.wav", "metaflac.exe --show-channels some-track.dts.flac" still told me it's 2 channels.
And I Googled here, Thanks for the detail explanation!

Quote from: DragonMaster on
...
Quote
Otherwise, why compress into FLAC to save 10% of the file size?

Embedded cuesheet. Makes less files and folders.

Yep, Embedded CueSheet, Embedded Cover, and even Embedded EAC Log, flac can store tags, but wav or dts can't do that.
I don't like a separate CueSheet file to store playlist information.

囧rz... 音乐的力量

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #10 –
lovetide: I don't know why you are bumping this 3 year old thread but things have changed significantly since then.

See the changelog of foo_input_dts

elevatorladylevitateme

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #11 –
Quote
Otherwise, why compress into FLAC to save 10% of the file size?
Quote
Yep, Embedded CueSheet, Embedded Cover, and even Embedded EAC Log, flac can store tags, but wav or dts can't do that.
I don't like a separate CueSheet file to store playlist information.


Lossy -> Lossless conversion. Capital audio crime punishable by 30 lashes with your speaker cable.

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #12 –
Saving the raw DTS stream in a FLAC file is not a capital crime. WAV is a lossless format too. But encoding the decoded DTS data in a FLAC, yes that's a crime. 

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: shakey_snake on
lovetide: I don't know why you are bumping this 3 year old thread but things have changed significantly since then.

See the changelog of foo_input_dts

Thanks for the link!



Quote from: Sandrine on
...
Lossy -> Lossless conversion. Capital audio crime punishable by 30 lashes with your speaker cable.

Quote from: herojoker on
Saving the raw DTS stream in a FLAC file is not a capital crime. WAV is a lossless format too. But encoding the decoded DTS data in a FLAC, yes that's a crime. 

Hi guys, the only reason I convert DTS-WAV to FLAC is just like what DragonMaster said: Makes less files and folders. There's nothing wrong here.

Suppose you have the following file/folder structure:
Code: [Select]
some-artist\some-album-folder\some-album.dts.wav
some-artist\some-album-folder\some-album.dts.wav.cue
some-artist\some-album-folder\some-album.dts.wav.log
some-artist\some-album-folder\covers\cd.jpg
some-artist\some-album-folder\covers\back.jpg
some-artist\some-album-folder\covers\cover.jpg

I don't know if .WAV or .DTS can store metadata into it, but I know .FLAC can do it, so I <Wrap/Embed> all these files into ONE flac file, now you can have a compact file/folder structure:
Code: [Select]
some-artist\some-album.dts.flac


It's more like you store multiple .JPG lossy images and some additional editing informations into 1 .PSD file. If .WAV or .DTS CAN store metadata into it, I will NOT wrap it into flac of course.
囧rz... 音乐的力量

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #14 –
I agree- I have wrapped my .wav DTS files (over 1tb) into .flac and saved around 10% file size and it works great.  I used Tag & Rename to setup all my tags - also works great.

My only issue now (read my post) is my setup will not allow me to mix 2 ch and 5.1 ch tracks without changing my output device - need a way to detect and execute an Autoit script which can make the output device change - anyone?

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #15 –
Or you can use the Channel Mixer component to upmix your stereo tracks to 5.1, even only just stereo with the other channels silent.
 

DTS decode with foo_input_dts from FLAC, possible?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: kode54 on
Or you can use the Channel Mixer component to upmix your stereo tracks to 5.1, even only just stereo with the other channels silent.


The problem with that is that it does not come close to doing a surround mix like the Neural THX  that my SC-27 receiver does.  All I need is for you or Peter to find out why the KS output looses the center channel on 5.1 content and then it would be fixed once and for all.

That or build in a facility to auto-switch the output device based on channels.