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Topic: EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should (Read 4341 times) previous topic - next topic
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EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Hello all,

I use EAC beta 3 with LAME 3.97b2. When I extract and compress files to MP3 from a CD, I get file that are bigger than what they should be. I use these compression options:

In the "External Compression" tab:

"Use external program for compression" is ticked
"Parameter passing scheme" is set to "User defined..."
In the additional command line I typed: "-V 2 --vbr-new --add-id3v2 --pad-id3v2 --ta "%a" --tt "%t" --tg "%m" --tl "%g" --ty "%y" --tn "%n" %s %d"
In the Bit rate drop down list I chose "192 kBit/s" (not sure if it matters for the command line I use... does it?")
"High quality" is ticked

In the "LAME DLL" tab (not sure if it matters):

Joint Stereo
High Quality
256 kBit/s
Use VBR quality with 0 (High Quality)

Now, according to the table in the "List of recommended LAME settings", a file should weigh about 190 kBit/s.
I extracted and compressed a 28'34'' CD with these settings, and it produced a total of 49.2MB - which is averagely ~235 kBit/s. The CD was a very moisy "full of sounds" one (Weezer), so I guess it should use the highest bit rate possible, but still it exceeded the predicted bitrate range (which I also got from the same table - 170..210 kBit/s). Shouldn't the compression settings limit the maximum file size, no matter how much "info" its audio has?

Thanks...

Sincerely,

Oded

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #1 –
The point of VBR is exactly to use however much is needed and not try to limit anything.

I'm not familiar with EAC so I dont know if a setting is wrong, but VBR certainly wont guarantee that bitrate stays within some range.

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #2 –
it lies in the nature of VBR (variable bitrate) that it distributes the bits according to where they are needed to reach a file that has a constant quality (CBR on the other hand sets a constant bitrate).
that can also mean that it may require a very high bitrate on some sources to reach a specified quality level. or if the source is 'easy' then it may require a very low bitrate, i.e. a lower fileszie.

Quote
so I guess it should use the highest bit rate possible
not realy. you should chose a setting that yiled in transparent results for you.
Nothing but a Heartache - Since I found my Baby ;)

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #3 –
Quote
Hello all,

I use EAC beta 3 with LAME 3.97b2. When I extract and compress files to MP3 from a CD, I get file that are bigger than what they should be. I use these compression options:

In the "External Compression" tab:

"Use external program for compression" is ticked
"Parameter passing scheme" is set to "User defined..."
In the additional command line I typed: "-V 2 --vbr-new --add-id3v2 --pad-id3v2 --ta "%a" --tt "%t" --tg "%m" --tl "%g" --ty "%y" --tn "%n" %s %d"
In the Bit rate drop down list I chose "192 kBit/s" (not sure if it matters for the command line I use... does it?")
"High quality" is ticked

In the "LAME DLL" tab (not sure if it matters):

Joint Stereo
High Quality
256 kBit/s
Use VBR quality with 0 (High Quality)

Now, according to the table in the "List of recommended LAME settings", a file should weigh about 190 kBit/s.
I extracted and compressed a 28'34'' CD with these settings, and it produced a total of 49.2MB - which is averagely ~235 kBit/s. The CD was a very moisy "full of sounds" one (Weezer), so I guess it should use the highest bit rate possible, but still it exceeded the predicted bitrate range (which I also got from the same table - 170..210 kBit/s). Shouldn't the compression settings limit the maximum file size, no matter how much "info" its audio has?

Thanks...

Sincerely,

Oded
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=365983"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I am new to ripping CDs and am also using V2 and your file size seems about the same as what I'm getting - an 11 track basic rock album ended up being 62 MB, for example. I was also wondering if that was above normal.

I was told that the bit rate and LAME DLL tab settings don't matter if you are using 'User Defined' parameters.

Hope this helps, but understand that it's the blind leading the blind. 

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #4 –
Quote
In the Bit rate drop down list I chose "192 kBit/s" (not sure if it matters for the command line I use... does it?")


This drove me nuts until I figured out what I was doing wrong.

Under the EAC --> Compression Options Menu if the parameter passing scheme is set to LAME MP3 Encoder, the drop down menu for bit rate will determine the LOWEST bitrate that will be used. By setting this to 192, EAC is telling LAME to use VBR but not encode any frame lower than 192 (except silence which will still be at 32).

Here is how you fix it. Either:

1) Select User Defined Encoder (as opposed to LAME). Use file extension .mp3. Make sure that the path is still set to lame.exe. (What I reccomend).

2) Lower the bitrate dropdown to 128kpbs or lower, depending on where you want the cut off to be. I trust LAME to make this decision and therefore I select user defined encoder instead.

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #5 –
Quote
Quote
In the Bit rate drop down list I chose "192 kBit/s" (not sure if it matters for the command line I use... does it?")


This drove me nuts until I figured out what I was doing wrong.

Under the EAC --> Compression Options Menu if the parameter passing scheme is set to LAME MP3 Encoder, the drop down menu for bit rate will determine the LOWEST bitrate that will be used. By setting this to 192, EAC is telling LAME to use VBR but not encode any frame lower than 192 (except silence which will still be at 32).

Here is how you fix it. Either:

1) Select User Defined Encoder (as opposed to LAME). Use file extension .mp3. Make sure that the path is still set to lame.exe. (What I reccomend).

2) Lower the bitrate dropdown to 128kpbs or lower, depending on where you want the cut off to be. I trust LAME to make this decision and therefore I select user defined encoder instead.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=366184"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

  Liar

Actually, as long as you've configured EAC and LAME according to the online guide, it changes absolutely nothing to modify the selected options (CRC check, bitrate selection, high/low quality)  It's all the same.
( I just extracted a mono jazz album, and it's 118 kbps - my drop-down says 192 though... )

On a side note, perhaps the author of this thread would be happy with the -V 5 --vbr-new setting : try it!

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #6 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
In the Bit rate drop down list I chose "192 kBit/s" (not sure if it matters for the command line I use... does it?")


This drove me nuts until I figured out what I was doing wrong.

Under the EAC --> Compression Options Menu if the parameter passing scheme is set to LAME MP3 Encoder, the drop down menu for bit rate will determine the LOWEST bitrate that will be used. By setting this to 192, EAC is telling LAME to use VBR but not encode any frame lower than 192 (except silence which will still be at 32).

Here is how you fix it. Either:

1) Select User Defined Encoder (as opposed to LAME). Use file extension .mp3. Make sure that the path is still set to lame.exe. (What I reccomend).
All I know is my experience.
2) Lower the bitrate dropdown to 128kpbs or lower, depending on where you want the cut off to be. I trust LAME to make this decision and therefore I select user defined encoder instead.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=366184"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Liar

Actually, as long as you've configured EAC and LAME according to the online guide, it changes absolutely nothing to modify the selected options (CRC check, bitrate selection, high/low quality)  It's all the same.
( I just extracted a mono jazz album, and it's 118 kbps - my drop-down says 192 though... )

On a side note, perhaps the author of this thread would be happy with the -V 5 --vbr-new setting : try it!
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=366189"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Please research before name calling... even in jest...

I could not find the post that explained this to me in order to link to it, but if you are using "LAME MP3 Encoder" for parameter passing as opposed to "User Defined Encoder" as the guide reccomends, and you set the bitrate dropdown to anything other than 128kbps, EAC will add the -b switch to your command line using the bitrate you selected.

This is a fairly easy setting to overlook... I delibrately had it set wrong when I was newb becasue I found the command lines daunting and wanted EAC to write my ID3 tags... now I follow the guides to the letter.

What is happening to the poster fits this explanation perfectly. The -b n switch when used in conjunction with --vbr or --vbr-new sets the lower limit of the file. According to the poster, 192kbp is selected in the drop down adding -b 192 to his command line. The bitrate on all his files would be higher than the usual range.

Further this is the EXACT PROBLEM that I had.... and my solution worked.

Any EAC experts in the house to say which one of us is right?

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #7 –
Quote
could not find the post that explained this to me in order to link to it, but if you are using "LAME MP3 Encoder" for parameter passing as opposed to "User Defined Encoder" as the guide reccomends, and you set the bitrate dropdown to anything other than 128kbps, EAC will add the -b switch to your command line using the bitrate you selected.

Even if what you say is true, it does not apply here.

Quote
In the "External Compression" tab:

"Use external program for compression" is ticked
"Parameter passing scheme" is set to "User defined..."


@odedyer

Don't expect to hit a certain bitrate if you are using a VBR mode. There are ABR and CBR modes for achieving that.
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #8 –
Thank you very much everyone!!! 
I understand that what I write in the command line is all that matters (when using "User defined..."), and it forces LAME to produce a file in a certain quality (to say a quality that is requested in the command line), and the encoder is smart enough to make the file as big as required - including making small files for "lighter" tracks.
I ripped and compressed a classic CD, and the average bitrate for that was lower than the "predicted bitrate range"... So now I'm reassured...

And I say using this setting is worth it because eventually, after compressing a lot of files, your average bitrate from all the files will be ~190kBit/s, and you will have good sounding files.

But I guess you all know that...

So thanks again
 

EAC-LAME produces files bigger than should

Reply #9 –
Quote
Any EAC experts in the house to say which one of us is right?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=366201"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I fail to see where you and Shade[ST] differ. You are both right.