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Topic: FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain (Read 6703 times) previous topic - next topic
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FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Hi everyone,

Been lurking around here for the past month or so trying to understand as much as possible about all of the compression options. I think I have decent base, I'm still pretty unsure of the details so I'd appreciate some your collective feedback on whether the steps below make sense for obtaining the following:

1) FLAC files (--best) with album-level replay gain values that will be played through home stereo system.
2) OGG files (-q3 or -q4) for use on ipaq pocketpc and on laptop when travelling

I'm using the following software, but I remain a little confused about their respective limitations (more on that later).

- EAC - 0.95pb5 (configured as per tutorial in forum FAQ)
- Flac-1.1.0 (front-end)
- vorbisgain-1.0.1 (from link in OGG forum's "recommended encoders & settings thread")
- oggenc2.3-aoTuVb2 (from link in OGG forum's "recommended encoders & settings thread")
- mareo-1.5.1

Initially, I got mareo configured, added --replay-gain to the appropriate flac action line and uncommented the ogg action line for portable players.  I did a couple of cds this way and everything went well -- tagging worked etc.

However, with some more reading I realized that the exctract -> flac -> ogg approach employed by mareo may not be giving proper album-level replay gain values since Flac Frontend has the option of batch-encoding an album's worth of wavs with the "treat as one album" option.  Mareo, by virtue of the fact that it does each wav in isolation of the others, may not be able to do the "treat as one album option".

At the same time, I realized that while I want accurate album-level replay gain for the flac files, the ogg files should have their volume normalized as group.  At this point, I got stuck.

I read in one post (of course, I can't find it now), that this approach would be reasonable. The cited software is what I would use given my current understanding.

1) Extract .wav with EAC
2) Encode to flac with Flac Front-End (replay-gain, treat as album, create tags)
3) Use Multi-Front and recommended oggenc to create ogg files @ -q4
4) Repeat for all CDs
4) Use Multi-Front and vorbisgain to normalize all oggs to one volume (not sure how to do this sinc the wikki down)

Admittedly, this is a lot more labour intensive    than the mareo approach and if I'm going to the trouble, I'd like some confirmation on whether it's the right approach, from a purely procedural point of view, and that the benefits > time costs.

Any input from the multitude of knowledgable folks here is welcome and please get the wikki back online.   

Thanks everyone!

N

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #1 –
You are correct that mareo will not use album gain, but you can still use mareo, and then replaygain the files as one (or 2) batch operations which is still less labour intensive than your latter approach.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #2 –
Quote
You are correct that mareo will not use album gain, but you can still use mareo, and then replaygain the files as one (or 2) batch operations which is still less labour intensive than your latter approach.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=224293"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks dreamliner77, but I'm going to have to ask you to be a little more explicit.

Am I correct in assuming that you're suggesting I do the following:

1) Use MAREO to create the flacs and oggs immediately upon ripping, but DO NOT replay gain at this stage.
2) Load the flacs into Flac Front-End and re-encode with replay gain and "treat as album" ON.
3) Use Multi-Front to VorbisGain the oggs (again, not sure how to do this).

I expect I've misunderstood something and I'm happy to read any material that might shed some light.

Thanks again!

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #3 –
Did a little more hunting and from what I can tell, Vorbisgain just adds tags. As such, I guess one would create the Oggs and then vorbis gain them.

That clears one thing up.

However, the question of using MAREO and then replay-gaining at the album level, as Dreamliner suggested, is still puzzling.

N

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #4 –
Why not just load up all of your files in foobar after they are encoded, select all, right click, and add replaygain information?  I just change the replaygain setting in foobar to %artist% - %album% so it knows what files go to what album.  It adds both track and album gain.  That way you can take replaygain responsibilities away from the encoder and just run all the files in a batch as a final step.

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #5 –
Quote
Why not just load up all of your files in foobar after they are encoded, select all, right click, and add replaygain information?  I just change the replaygain setting in foobar to %artist% - %album% so it knows what files go to what album.  It adds both track and album gain.  That way you can take replaygain responsibilities away from the encoder and just run all the files in a batch as a final step.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=224395"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Another vote for the fb2k approach.
Having a very straight/simple EAC configuration and doing replaygaining/transcoding later via foobar2000 will most likely save you some hassle once you get used to do those manual post-ripping steps.
"To understand me, you'll have to swallow a world." Or maybe your words.

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #6 –
Thanks Dewey and Viva Love. If foobar can do that, it would definitely be easier to go that route.  However, I don't know if I need an add-on to  foobar to make it do this transcoding? If not, is there a guide you could point me to?

thanks!

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #7 –
The diskwriter in foobar will do the transcoding for you. All you need to do is point it in the direction of your ogg binary, and you're set.

Oh, and make sure you have it set to use replaygain gain values when writing to disk, so it will normalize your ogg files for you.

Here are your quick steps.

1) Rip, encode to flac, use tags as given by EAC/cddb
2) Open all files in fb2k, check tags, make sure everything is part of an album
3) Select all files, right-click -> add replay-gain
4) Select all files, right-click -> run conversion

You'll need to edit the naming convention to suit where you want the files to end up.

Quote
Thanks Dewey and Viva Love. If foobar can do that, it would definitely be easier to go that route.  However, I don't know if I need an add-on to  foobar to make it do this transcoding? If not, is there a guide you could point me to?

thanks!
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=225237"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Guinness for strength!

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #8 –
Thanks leland! I guess i would use: %artist% - %album%, mentioned above to allow replay-gain to deduce which flacs form albums? Or would I replay-gain the flacs at the time of ripping and only do the oggs with Foobar?

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #9 –
Quote
Why not just load up all of your files in foobar after they are encoded, select all, right click, and add replaygain information?  I just change the replaygain setting in foobar to %artist% - %album% so it knows what files go to what album.  It adds both track and album gain.  That way you can take replaygain responsibilities away from the encoder and just run all the files in a batch as a final step.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=224395"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I have a problem in that I transcoded many artist\album\mp3s to ogg using fb2k and listen to them on my pda (using pockettunes) and the levels are all over the place.

How can I select all oggs in my directory and replaygain them to be the same level even across artist\album.  I am having difficulty figuring out the best way to do this in fb2k.

Anyone's help is much appreciated.

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #10 –
I have a problem in that I transcoded many artist\album\mp3s to ogg using fb2k and listen to them on my pda (using pockettunes) and the levels are all over the place.

How can I select all oggs in my directory and replaygain them to be the same level even across artist\album.  I am having difficulty figuring out the best way to do this in fb2k.

Anyone's help is much appreciated.


--
Set replaygain in Foobar to use track gain and THEN run the conversion to ogg.
FLAC -8 | MP3 V2

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #11 –
Quote
Set replaygain in Foobar to use track gain and THEN run the conversion to ogg.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233877"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


He'll have to calculate ReplayGain for all the files first, if he hasn't done so already. Select them all, right click, ReplayGain, Scan per-file track gain.

Also, remember to enable ReplayGain in the diskwriter. Right click, convert, settings, enable ReplayGain.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
David.

EDIT: Ah, I see the original poster was trying to ReplayGain his oggs, which probably won't work when they're copied to his PDA. Sorry Launfal - your answer was probably all he needed!

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #12 –
Quote
How can I select all oggs in my directory and replaygain them to be the same level even across artist\album.  I am having difficulty figuring out the best way to do this in fb2k.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233786"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Drag and drop your directory into foobar.

->If your files are correctly tagged: Select all and replaygain>scan selection as multiple albums.

-->If your files are not correctly tagged: Select all and replaygain>scan selection as track.

I would reccomend you in any case the first approach. It will tag your files with album gain and track gain. You can switch then between the two in foobar (playback all songs at the same level or playback all songs in same album at the same level).

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #13 –
Quote
I have a problem in that I transcoded many artist\album\mp3s to ogg using fb2k and listen to them on my pda (using pockettunes) and the levels are all over the place.

How can I select all oggs in my directory and replaygain them to be the same level even across artist\album.  I am having difficulty figuring out the best way to do this in fb2k.

Anyone's help is much appreciated.


--
Set replaygain in Foobar to use track gain and THEN run the conversion to ogg.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233877"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Is this the setting in preferences\playback that needs to be set even though I am using diskwriter? 

Also, can I just add all files to 1 playlist, then select all, then right click and run replaygain? 

If I run replaygain scan selection as album, will it also write the trackgain settings as well as the albumgain settings, so I can choose later as to how I want it to play back? 

Last question, what does scan selection as multiple albums do differently than scan selection as album?

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #14 –
you can add as many files to your playlist, select them, and then replaygain(scan selection as multiple albums)  them all at once, as you want - as long as all files have proper album-tags. If they do not have proper album-tags, then you need to mark every single album seperately and then "scan selection as album".

The funny thing about foobar2000 is that its not its playback-capabilities which make it stand out, but instead that its maybe the best replaygain/tag/transcoding all-in-one tool currently available for free - i know of no other tool which makes mass-tagging/mass-replaygaining/mass-transcoding so fast and flexible as fb2k(of course its playback-capabilities are a nice addon too ;)

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #15 –
Is this the setting in preferences\playback that needs to be set even though I am using diskwriter? 

-- Yes.  AFAIK, both diskwriter and CD writer use this setting.

Also, can I just add all files to 1 playlist, then select all, then right click and run replaygain? 

-- Sure can.  Although I would replaygain them as tracks if they're from different albums.

If I run replaygain scan selection as album, will it also write the trackgain settings as well as the albumgain settings, so I can choose later as to how I want it to play back? 

-- Exactly

Last question, what does scan selection as multiple albums do differently than scan selection as album?

-- Nothing.  It just saves the trouble of highlighting individual albums seperately to apply the album gain when in a big playlist.  All files with the same album tag are scanned together.
FLAC -8 | MP3 V2

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #16 –
"scan selection as album":
"dumb" albumgain scan... it will treat whatever files you selected as one album

"scan selection as multiple albums":
will use the album-tag to split all selected files into seperate albums (and apply albumgain to each of them)

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.
 

FLAC, VORBIS, Album-level ReplayGain

Reply #17 –
Thanks everyone,

I'll try over the next couple days and set what else comes up.

Appreciated your feedback