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Topic: [USELESS] MPC & Vorbis Teaming Together ? (Read 2678 times) previous topic - next topic
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[USELESS] MPC & Vorbis Teaming Together ?

Hi Frank,

There have been lot of rumours & enthousiasm around your new PC & the possibility of MPC's rebirth, I have never been a real MPCZealot personnaly as I came to audio after Vorbis V1.00 was released & it happens that it was an all bitrate "Jack Of All Trade" solution which I was very satisfied with ... compared to MP3/Lame ...

At the beginning, when I first compared audio codecs, I fall to the personnal conclusion that there were MP3 Lame & MPC (Old Generation, generally accepted transparency around 192Kbps) in one hand Vs  MP4 Nero & Ogg Vorbis (New Generation, generally accepted transparency around 160Kbps) ...

But with time I realized that this seperation wasn't so true as speaking with MPCZealot & LameZealot ... I realized that the Vorbis Community had much more to share with the  MPC Community then with the MP3 Community ... that even with the paradox I noted of  LameZealot being very easy to convert to Vorbis while MPCZealots are very attached to their "perfect lossy" (?) codec ...

In fact I don't even know if MP3/LameZealots really exists ... each time I speak with that kind of users I realize their lack of knowledge ... most often when they realize Vorbis is supported by IRiver ... they switch in a second ...

That has lead me to the conclusion that if I had came to audio before Vorbis 1.00 came out ... I would most likely be a MPCZealot myself ...

I am a VorbisZealot but most of my audio net friend are MPC users ... I am lost in communities of MPC users witch tell me: "eh I use MPC Q5 for music ... but I use Vorbis for portable, for video, for preview" ... & the same people tell me "sure if vorbis would integrate MPC psymodel I would switch to Vorbis ..."

I dunno much about psycho-achoustic ... & how MPC could help Vorbis ... but this situation leads to weakening Vorbis ... when Vorbis could & should be the best for all use ... I know that with the MPC community buying you a new PC ... they wait for a new MPC update & not really a MPC/Vorbis hybrid ...

but I think that if you develop a new V8 MPC stream & then stop MPC development again ... it doesn't really make sense ... & the MPC situation vs Vorbis will be the same in one year ... MPC will be dying again after a short revival & Vorbis will not be  very tuned at high bitrate as Monty will most likely focus on lowering battery life greedyness ...

I know that I am an ogg enthousiast & that in fact I would like to see everyone one working together on Vorbis in order to deliver the best audio codec possible ...

I already asked Gabriel why Lame developpers don't work on Vorbis creating something like L.I.V.E for (Live Is a Vorbis Enc) & I think I understund reading between the lines that this will most likely never gonna happen as it would mean starting developping their own rival ... so they would prefer develop Faac over Vorbis  arguing that aac has better mpeg standard ...

Garf has turned to aac ... which is damn sad ... & Rjamorim will most likely show in his next aac listening that aac "is" mpc high-bitrate successor ...

I realized that Lame was more a freeware than a really open-sourced project ... & that with time ... we will most likely see a lame aac project (certainly based on faac) ... which will misslead again many people by thinking mp3 & mp4 is free ... which it is not ... lame-faac (& xvid) are freeware & not much then that ... it is sad to see that the developpers/end users are unable to understand that open source is better than freeware ... but that's the way it is ...

so with this post I wanted to ask you ... assuming lame is behind faac ... what is your opinion on aac vs vorbis ? will you help vorbis by working on mixing mpc with vorbis ? or will you develop a new MPC version & then disapear again which will only make aac stonger ?

I know working with Xiph is not easy ... as these guys are not very good in relashionship ... I know the choice may seem obsolete for you ... but this choice is IMVHO very important for the near audio codecs future ...

The MPC community & The Vorbis community share much together:
1: Dislike MP3 (& often big compagnies)
2: Coding for Free/Coding for Fun
3: High Audio Knowledge, Standard
4: Favor command line encoder for use with EAC

The only main differences are:
1: Generally MPCZealot only rip high bitrate Audio not low bitrate Video
2: Generally VorbisZealot are more recent then MPCZealot

The differences are thin ...

I don't know your feeling about the actual state of Linux/open-source, do you feel near this way of thinking or not ?

personnally I think that Monty & Co are the multimedia right hand of Linus Torvald & Co... if this guys hang on ... with time ... they "might" or "might not" introduce a revolution in the multimedia area ... as Linux did in the OS area ...

I would REALLY ... but I mean REALLY appreciate that you made clear choice for you community ... & that if you don't wanna develop MPC anymore ... you point your fan either to aac or to vorbis ... & if you choice vorbis ... transmit the MPC experience gift to Xiph before you vanish for ever ...

I know that you can answer that everyone is free & that you will not chose for them ... but before you answer this ... plz wonder how bad such an anwser will be for vorbis ... if you can help the open-source community improving their free codec ...
... This is now or never ...

Wishing you the best for you future project,
XiphZealot.
 

[USELESS] MPC & Vorbis Teaming Together ?

Reply #1 –
You could keep your "Zealot ratio" down a bit. Seems that every other word is "MPCZealot", "VorbisZealot" or "LameZealot"... 

Can't people just be users, maybe using several formats where best suited, and not be zealots?

I doubt Klemm is really interested in answering this, he can PM you if he wants, but this is another potential flamewar thread -> closed.

Quote
lame-faac (& xvid) are freeware & not much then that

BS.. Lame and FAAC are open source projects, and you can easily get your code in to the official projects (depending on the code), infact much easier than to the Ogg Vorbis project as we have seen...
Juha Laaksonheimo