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Topic: New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor (Read 11727 times) previous topic - next topic
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New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #25 –
I'm not really eager to test the Real AAC codec.

First, because it seems to be just CodingTechnologies, which would make is somewhat similar to Winamp (I think).

Second, because it outputs broken streams (Real Container).

Third, because I'm admittedly a coward and have no courage to try to install ANY Real software on my PC. I'd better leave that task for a real hardcore guy that has no love for his computer.


(I'm sorry, Karl or any other RN guy reading this, but I have never had a painless experience with Real Player / One / Producer. My latest issue with your software is reported here).

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #26 –
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with the different quality levels different codecs can provide (wether its mp3 or aac) i can also imagine that a codec at 192kbps provides the same quality as a better codec at 128kbps on average

That's true, but as Roberto says :
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Real AAC == Coding Technologies == FhG consumer ~= Dolby consumer == Winamp

and with Apple == Dolby, Real's encoder, licensed from Coding Technologies, should be in pretty good company  Also see my post in the "AAC test" thread about how these implementations are not entirely identical.
Sr. Codec Engineer (video) | RealNetworks Codec Group | helixcommunity.org 
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,  grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #27 –
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Apple == Dolby

Apple is not really the same as Dolby. True, they started from the Dolby consumer sources, but did very heavy tuning inside Apple. The Apple's main AAC developer is actually a member of this board.

Anyway, I agree with Karl, unless Real is using reference sources (and they aren't), 192kbps ought to sound better than 128.

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #28 –
karl,
of course i didnt mean that reals aac codec sounds any worse than the one from apple

all i wanted to say is that the plain statement "192 is better than 128" doesnt have to be necessarily correct
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #29 –
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Second, because it outputs broken streams (Real Container).

Yes, agree. This will change for Gold. Most likely to ADTS .aac. I will find out why this is considered the current plan, and not MP4.

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Third, because I'm admittedly a coward and have no courage to try to install ANY Real software on my PC. I'd better leave that task for a real hardcore guy that has no love for his computer.

I have installed versions of RealPlayer and RealOne for many years, on 20+ computers at least, and have never had anything like that happen, ever, even with early pre-Alpha versions. For instance, you should not need to reboot. That's an indication something is not working right.

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RealOne and RealPlayer10 beta are two flaming pieces of garbage that refuse to install on my PC. Surprisingly, the installation process...

Your experience is most unfortunate, and I would like to make sure whatever the problem is, gets fixed.  Did you try RealOne and RealPlayer 10, or did you just pre-determine RealPlaye 10 to be as bad?

Also, have you ever installed a Real "codec pack" on your system? Those will mess with the registry, and potentially confuse the installer. Still, the installer should still clearly work, and I would just like to know, so I can file a reproducible bug report. No matter, I will still file a bug report, because this needs to be investigated. Thanks for reporting this problem.
Sr. Codec Engineer (video) | RealNetworks Codec Group | helixcommunity.org 
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,  grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #30 –
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Your experience is most unfortunate, and I would like to make sure whatever the problem is, gets fixed.  Did you try RealOne and RealPlayer 10, or did you just pre-determine RealPlaye 10 to be as bad?

Sorry for the strong wording, but it was almost 5AM, I was tired of testing bitrates over and over again for my test and frustrated with restarting my computer time and time again.

I tried RealOne Enterprise Desktop, RealOne standard and Real Player 10 beta. In between each install I tried uninstalling the software. The uninstaller never worked (complained about missing files), so I deleted the folders and removed the RealNetworks registry keys from HKLM and HKCU.

Also, I installed them with the minimum amount of apps running in my system.

Installating went on peacefully and never output any error message.

In every case I installed, restarted and double-clicked the .exe. Nothing happened, and the program wasn't frozen because I checked the task manager and it wasn't there. It must have crashed for some reason. There were no error messages whatsoever.

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Also, have you ever installed a Real "codec pack" on your system? Those will mess with the registry, and potentially confuse the installer.


Nope, I never installed.

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No matter, I will still file a bug report, because this needs to be investigated. Thanks for reporting this problem.


I thank-you for your help

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #31 –
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I am setting myself up as flamebait by at all commenting on this issue.. However, I just wanted to mention that we do know about the previously badly behaving RealPlayers, heck we've been using them ourselves. Naturally also from feedback from just about anyone having used them. Please see my "How to make RealPlayer 10 behave nicely thread" over on Doom9. As you can see, it has improved in the right direction, and it does not run +10 MB of always on background services. In any case, constructive feedback in the thread mentioned is welcome, and I will forward to the right people, or even file bug reports.


I appreciate your commentary very much karl, and I have seen the thread over at Doom9. Real's video compression in the last year or two has become extremely impressive relative to what I recall from some time ago, especially with animation.
  However, "badly behaving" is probably the nicest thing I would have to say about Realplayer's installation and uninstall procedure over the years, and I shall leave it at that.

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What I actually wanted to say is that even though we also use AAC in the RealNetworks Music Store, it is 192 kbps rather than 128 kbps, and even though I am more of a video than audio enthusiast, when I do buy a song, I would certainly prefer the highest possible quality.


  This is a good point, and I would agree if it were not for the total incompatibility of the Real Music Stores files with any extant AAC compatible portable. I realize that your companies hands are almost certainly tied on this issue by the content providers themselves, but without the ability to transfer and play my downloaded music files on a portable or another computer, the additional bits do nothing for me, even more so when I must use Real's own player to play the content on the computer I downloaded it to.

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #32 –
I would like to try Real Player 10, but both RP One and 10 crash before they allow me into the program. No error messages, no crash log, they just dont open  . Both would show me the little flash screen, then they just died....oh well, back to Real Player Alternative  .

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #33 –
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I would like to try Real Player 10, but both RP One and 10 crash before they allow me into the program. No error messages, no crash log, they just dont open   . Both would show me the little flash screen, then they just died....oh well, back to Real Player Alternative   .

That is exactly what is happening here. Same versions, same symptoms. Only I don't even get to see the flash screen.

BTW: My system is Win2000 Pro SP4 ptbr, Athlon XP 1500+, 384Mb RAM

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #34 –
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without the ability to transfer and play my downloaded music files on a portable or another computer

Yes, that's perfectly understandable. All music stores encrypt their content, thus restricting it from being freely playable on all computers. With the Real Music Store you can designate 3 computers to play your downloaded songs. You can switch this around too, just delete one computer from your list, then add another.  Store bought content can already be played on some Palm devices and Creative Jukeboxes, full support for others on the way.
Sr. Codec Engineer (video) | RealNetworks Codec Group | helixcommunity.org 
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,  grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #35 –
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Quote
I would like to try Real Player 10, but both RP One and 10 crash before they allow me into the program. No error messages, no crash log, they just dont open   . Both would show me the little flash screen, then they just died....oh well, back to Real Player Alternative   .

That is exactly what is happening here. Same versions, same symptoms. Only I don't even get to see the flash screen.

BTW: My system is Win2000 Pro SP4 ptbr, Athlon XP 1500+, 384Mb RAM

We have a lot in common: Windows 2000 SP4, AMD XP2400, 512mb ram, Shuttle AK31 v3.1 MB - System is 100% stable too, and i'm completely sure of it

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #36 –
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I would like to try Real Player 10, but both RP One and 10 crash before they allow me into the program. No error messages, no crash log, they just dont open   . Both would show me the little flash screen, then they just died....oh well, back to Real Player Alternative   .

Looking into this problem myself.. since bug reports need to be reproducible to be easier to fix.
  • Un-installed RealOne V2 from my secondary computer.
  • Set System Restore point
  • Installed RealAlternative 1.04
  • Ran installer for RealPlayer 10 Beta. No errors, no need to re-boot
  • Try to start RP10. Flash screen. then nothing!
  • Restored system to earlier restore point.
So, in your case, ViPER1313, I am pretty sure the codec pack is to blame. I will add this to the bug report, so we can make our installer work even in the face of this. It should. rjamorim, who never installed a codec pack, must have a different problem.
In either case, I will test the un-installer/cleaner that comes with R1P, r1pclean.exe, but it may not work on the codec pack.
Sr. Codec Engineer (video) | RealNetworks Codec Group | helixcommunity.org 
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,  grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #37 –
This post attempts to answer the original posters question 'New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes Killer?'.

Having used release 10 for about a week now, for my purposes the answer is a conditional no. I use iTunes to manage the music files on my iPod and obviously RealPlayer won't do that.

I have been using release 10 to manage the music files on my minidiscs and much to my surprise I've discovered that RealPlayer 10 is a really nice piece of software and a big improvement on previous versions.

RealPlayer 10 hasn't tried to take over my computer, it installed gracefully and it was easy enough to de-select installation options that I didn't want -- no hidden options or sneaky marketing tricks.

The interface has been subtilely improved and seems to be very robust. RealPlayer imported my 20GB of mp3's quickly and efficiently. It hasn't edited or moved my files and the autoplaylists and library hierarchy are logical and simple to use.

I've never liked previous releases of RealPlayer, and in particular I didn't like the intrusive nature of Real's marketing built into the software. However with this release Real seem to have reached a nice compromise between marketing necessity and user friendliness

I am extremely grateful that Real has given me a much nicer and less intrusive option to Sony's terrible SonicStage application for moving files onto my minidiscs.

Sadly I won't be able to buy music from Real's new music store when it's available outside of the USA because I won't be able to play those files on my iPod. So for me RealPlayer is not a competitor to iTunes, but while I still use minidiscs or listen to streaming audio from the BBC or ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) RealPlayer is a very welcome and useful addition on my PC and is highly recommended if you have a Net-MD minidisc player.

CR

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #38 –
@CarbonRods:
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I've never liked previous releases of RealPlayer, and in particular I didn't like the intrusive nature of Real's marketing built into the software. However with this release Real seem to have reached a nice compromise between marketing necessity and user friendliness

Considering past realplayers, what we hear every day about these, and my own experiences, I am very glad to hear this.

Karl wrote:
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In either case, I will test the un-installer/cleaner that comes with R1P, r1pclean.exe, but it may not work on the codec pack.

So even though r1pclean reports 'Cannot load setu3260.dll' it does appear to clean out the registry enough so that now RealPlayer 10 Beta runs fine, after installing it.

I will post this also in Doom9, where I am sure there are many RealAlternative users as well.
Sr. Codec Engineer (video) | RealNetworks Codec Group | helixcommunity.org 
This information is provided "AS IS" with no warranties,  grants no rights, and reflects my personal opinion.

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #39 –
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Store bought content can already be played on some Palm devices and Creative Jukeboxes, full support for others on the way.


Which currently availible Creative jukeboxes support the .ra AAC files?

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #40 –
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So, in your case, ViPER1313, I am pretty sure the codec pack is to blame. I will add this to the bug report, so we can make our installer work even in the face of this.

Yeah, RP Alternative was the problem. I went out on a limb and uninstalled it, installed RP 10 beta, and it started up first try w/ no reboots. Seems to be a pretty nice player, although a little to big and bloated for my tastes. It would be great if you could make Real One / RP 10 work with RP Alternative installed though. Thanks for all your help.
 

New RealPlayer to be an Apple iTunes competitor

Reply #41 –
You don't need Real Alternative if you have RealPlayer installed. Every program, which work using Real Alternative, should work if you have the plain Real Player installed.