Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

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Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #25 – 2012-07-23 19:04:24

Quote from: softrunner on 2012-07-23 17:55:49

Quote
can you nail down a freeformat@640?

If you mean "lame.exe --freeformat -b 640 *.wav", I cannot find how to decode it.

fb2k cannot play it. I am not on my home computer right now, but ... tried lame.exe --decode and then comparing the WAV's? Though, according to http://mp3decoders.mp3-tech.org/freeformat.html , older Lame couldn't decode the highest-bitrate freeformats, but MAD can. http://www.underbit.com/products/mad/

Quote from: softrunner on 2012-07-23 17:55:49

Anyway, it must be useless.

Absolutely, except possibly for this particular purpose.

Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #26 – 2012-07-23 22:40:20

Quote

Opusdec will decode at 44.1kHz, if the opus file was sourced from a 44.1kHz WAV. Maybe that's what softrunner meant.

Exactly. Surprisingly, foobar2000 decodes at 48kHz.

Quote

... tried lame.exe --decode and then comparing the WAV's?

It looks like it works:

d:\@Portable@\Audio\@Encoders@> lame.exe --decode test_freeformat_640.mp3
Input file is freeformat.
hip: bitstream problem, resyncing skipping 2088 bytes...
input: test_freeformat_640.mp3 (44.1 kHz, 2 channels, MPEG-1 Layer III)
output: test_freeformat_640.wav (16 bit, Microsoft WAVE)
skipping initial 1105 samples (encoder+decoder delay)
skipping final 1015 samples (encoder padding-decoder delay)
Frame# 308/308 168 kbps MS

I'll try it later.
-----------------
To all. You may not believe me, but I've passed ABX test of Vorbis Q10 (619 kbps)

foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.1.14 beta 1
2012/07/24 00:58:35

File A: S:\320 GB HDD\Аудио-тесты\NEW\Converter\input\test.flac
File B: S:\320 GB HDD\Аудио-тесты\NEW\Converter\output\test (Vorbis q10,0).ogg

00:58:35 : Test started.
01:02:12 : 01/01 50.0%
01:04:00 : 01/02 75.0%
01:04:31 : 02/03 50.0%
01:05:51 : 03/04 31.3%
01:07:24 : 04/05 18.8%
01:08:09 : 05/06 10.9%
01:08:36 : 06/07 6.3%
01:08:59 : 07/08 3.5%
01:09:12 : 08/09 2.0%
01:10:02 : 09/10 1.1%
01:10:58 : 10/11 0.6%
01:11:39 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 10/11 (0.6%)

The difference in signals is that in the original sample the background flow of noise is not interrupted, but in Vorbis it is got interrupted somehow, other signals overlap it, so that I am loosing it (cannot hear it constantly).

Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #27 – 2012-07-24 21:14:14

Quote

can you nail down a freeformat@640?

I've met some difficulties with it. I know that the difference is there (original sounds sharper), but I can't get enought percent in abx test for posting it (as I remember, I had 9 of 10 but then made some mistakes). For me it is painfull to search this difference, so I'd better focus on testing Opus.
In Opus tests I got stuck at 200+ kbps (300+ real bitrate), but on portable player I recognize at least 224 kbps (converted in vorbis q10), so have to try it more.

Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #28 – 2012-07-25 02:19:43

I wonder how a hybrid format would perform on this. Do you mind trying wavpack -b256hx4 or even -b352hx4

Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #29 – 2012-07-25 02:23:11

LossyWAV, too.

Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #30 – 2012-07-25 12:47:33

lossyWAV (standard) yields a bitrate of 907kbit/s compared to FLAC 1013kbit/s [attached]....

Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #31 – 2012-07-25 13:22:32

I'm curious, what sound card do you have, softrunner? I remember back in the old days my Sound Blaster Audigy, that was also AC'97 compatible, mutilated the output enough to make lossy codecs much easier to ABX.

Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #32 – 2012-07-27 01:57:26

Quote

I wonder how a hybrid format would perform on this. Do you mind trying wavpack -b256hx4 or even -b352hx4

Quote

lossyWAV (standard) yields a bitrate of 907kbit/s compared to FLAC 1013kbit/s [attached]....

Can't pass it. For me they sound like lossless.
By the way I have ABXed Musepack q10 to be sure I have not lost my sensitivity due to listening the same sample that much.

Musepack Q10 (420 kbps)

foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.1.14 beta 1
2012/07/27 04:02:32

File A: D:\@Portable@\Audio\LossyAudioTester\input\test.flac
File B: D:\@Portable@\Audio\LossyAudioTester\output\test (Musepack q10.0).mpc

04:02:32 : Test started.
04:16:17 : Trial reset.
04:17:35 : 01/01 50.0%
04:18:35 : 02/02 25.0%
04:20:18 : 02/03 50.0%
04:20:58 : 03/04 31.3%
04:21:56 : 04/05 18.8%
04:22:43 : 05/06 10.9%
04:23:38 : 06/07 6.3%
04:24:37 : 07/08 3.5%
04:26:31 : 08/09 2.0%
04:26:58 : 09/10 1.1%
04:29:16 : 10/11 0.6%
04:29:21 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 10/11 (0.6%)

(it sounds smoothed on the background in the right channel)

Quote

I'm curious, what sound card do you have, softrunner?

It is just standard AC97 (ALC850).

Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #33 – 2012-12-29 01:55:16

Opus 256 kbps (326 kbps) (git version from 10.11.2012)

foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.1.16
2012/11/19 04:32:08

File A: D:\@Portable@\Audio\LossyAudioTester\output\FighterBeatLoop\FighterBeatLoop.flac
File B: D:\@Portable@\Audio\LossyAudioTester\output\FighterBeatLoop\FighterBeatLoop (Opus 256 kbps).opus

04:32:08 : Test started.
04:32:28 : 01/01 50.0%
04:32:53 : 02/02 25.0%
04:33:18 : 03/03 12.5%
04:35:05 : 03/04 31.3%
04:36:00 : 04/05 18.8%
04:37:36 : 05/06 10.9%
04:37:53 : 05/07 22.7%
04:38:14 : 06/08 14.5%
04:38:51 : 06/09 25.4%
04:39:56 : 07/10 17.2%
04:42:56 : 08/11 11.3%
04:45:31 : 09/12 7.3%
04:46:25 : 10/13 4.6%
04:47:15 : 11/14 2.9%
04:48:35 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 11/14 (2.9%)

Encoded sample sounds slightly poorer then the original one, with less amplitude of a saw-like sound.

Re: Fighter Beat looped (killer sample)

Reply #34 – 2018-04-01 11:42:15

Sorry to bump this, but this statement (kills all lossy codecs) looked too interesting.
Is anyone able to reproduce this now in 2018 with Opus, or any other lossy codecs?
I tested this sample with Opus (version: opus-tools 0.1.10 using libopus 1.2.1, parameters: "--padding 0 --bitrate 185") and Musepack (mppenc 1.30.0, default settings), resulting file size was 235151 for Opus and 234736 bytes for MPC, in neither case could I hear any differences, and it looks like Musepack was not even updated since 2009, and people were able to hear the difference even at MPC max quality settings, so does that mean I am just deaf and should give it up? Or is it okay no not hear this if I am 27 years old?

I also tried Opus --bitrate 128, it seems it's at the edge of my ability, it could be that the rhythmic scratching sound is made less sharp, but I am not completely sure I hear it or it might be guessing, in ABX testing training mode I got 7/7 (it took about 10 minutes of careful listening with too much loudness) and then I failed 8th try. I am not sure I am able to 100% correctly pass it to post a worthy log, and it's too painful.
The difference becomes really obvious with Opus --bitrate 64 (and the actual average bitrate is 82 then). So the transition for me must be somewhere in between.