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Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

I experience strange sound glitches when using DirectSound plugin in Vista. I tried also ASIO with ASIO4ALL, but the result is the same. The only one which seems to produce a clear sound is KernelStreaming plugin. My sound is internal Realtek AC97 (on a NF4 MB), the drivers are the latest from the official site.
Does anyone know what can be the problem? In WMP the sound seems to be fine.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #1
Microsoft decided to drop hardware accelerated DirectSound in Vista. =(
There was some hope(someone could make an Open AL output component), but that wasn't allowed by the SDK license.

It looks dark for us with Vista and foobar2000.
Windows 10 Pro x64 // foobar2000 1.3.10

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #2
Have you tried resetting Foobar2000 to defaults to see whether the same occurs?
Maybe a DSP or output config is causing it?

BTW what do you mean by glitches? Skips and stutters?
Maybe your direct sound buffer is too low (If that works at all in vista)

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #3
Here, read.

http://preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx

If someone have Vista and an X-Fi card, can you check if ALchemy works with foobar2000?
Windows 10 Pro x64 // foobar2000 1.3.10

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #4
Yes, I tried resetting everything to default. The same.
No DSP's are active.
Under glitches I mean stuttering and clicks. And they seem to be more noticeable when the music becomes harder (louder).

Have you tried resetting Foobar2000 to defaults to see whether the same occurs?
Maybe a DSP or output config is causing it?

BTW what do you mean by glitches? Skips and stutters?
Maybe your direct sound buffer is too low (If that works at all in vista)

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #5
Here, read.

http://preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx

If someone have Vista and an X-Fi card, can you check if ALchemy works with foobar2000?

I think alchemy is useless for foobar because foobar is not using DS3D.
and I actually tried, it doesn't even load the openal dll while playing (probably it will if it detect something related to DS3D, don't know though, I don't play games  )
so the pipeline is just FB2K -> DSOUND (creative) -> DSOUND (vista), wasting system resource for the creative's dll.

completely regret have bought X-Fi, just couple of months ago... damn...

btw drolevar, I also have glitches, not sure it's vista DSOUND's fault or creative's driver problem... most likely the latter.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #6
ALchemy is only for games and is only utilised when the games call the DLLs.

IIRC I had stutters on Vista during intensive hard drive IO.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #7
It's probably Vista differences. I've got Realtek AC97 as I said.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #8
Here, read.

http://preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx

If someone have Vista and an X-Fi card, can you check if ALchemy works with foobar2000?


It does (I have personally tested this), but remember OpenAL in its current state only supports 8 bit and 16 bit output (so Foobar can't be set to 24 bit or 32 bit output, which sucks for us that have some 24 bit material).  In addition ALchemy in its current state requires one to be in gaming mode for it to work.  So while ALchemy does work with Foobar, it's hardly an optimal solution to the problem. 

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #9
but remember OpenAL in its current state only supports 8 bit and 16 bit output (so Foobar can't be set to 24 bit or 32 bit output, which sucks for us that have some 24 bit material)

this is not true I think, at least for X-FI.
it supports openal 1.1, and I've successfully tried to play up to 7.1 with 32 bit output with openal interface.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #10

but remember OpenAL in its current state only supports 8 bit and 16 bit output (so Foobar can't be set to 24 bit or 32 bit output, which sucks for us that have some 24 bit material)

this is not true I think, at least for X-FI.
it supports openal 1.1, and I've successfully tried to play up to 7.1 with 32 bit output with openal interface.



I have a similar problem.  I have a new hp x86 laptop running vista home premium containing the conexant high definition audio venice 5045 chipset.  I connect my laptop to my home stereo receiver via the laptop's built in s/pdif port.  I want to adjust the s/pdif's port's sample rate under vista to 44 khz and the bit depth to 24 bit, but those options do not even appear under audio properties for the s/pdif port.  I have installed and uninstalled several different drivers, and I spent a ton of time on the web trying to figure out a work around with no success.  I even started this thread where I got a response from hp stating that they were suposedly aware of the problem and releasing a new driver.  I later contacted hp again, and this time they said that no such new driver was being released.  Anyone have any idea how to access these settings under vista, or another way to adjust the output to my desired sample rate and bit depth?

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #11
you mean this? pic
I thought it's always there

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #12
you mean this? pic
I thought it's always there



Exactly!  On my system there is no pull down and it is locked at 2 channel 48khz 16 bit depth and when I go to the drop down menu nothing else is available.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #13
hm.. i don't think you can change it then, because it's provided by the driver.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #14
hm.. i don't think you can change it then, because it's provided by the driver.


Ya, it is weird because the internal speaker settings can be changed, although only selectable on 2 channel and 16 and 24 bit depths and 192 and 48 khz sample rates (no 44 khz?).  The driver apparently limits the settings for the s/pdif output even though the hardware is capeable of much more.  Very frustrating!  Hopefully at some point someone will release a vista driver for this chipset that unlocks these capabilities.

I have a fairly complicated setup which also includes a emu 0404 external usb sound card which is not even connected to my computer and is being used simply as a d/a converter so that I can pump computer digitally outputed audio to speakers in other zones of my house that are connected to my receiver analog.  I am also awaiting vista drivers for this card,  and when they are released I may decide to run my main zone though the emu also instead of the computer's built in conexant chipset so that I can get my audio at my desired sample rate and bit depth and avoid having to resample.  I also have a sondingo wireless external sound card which will do 24 bit, but unfortunately resamples everything to 48 khz.  Not sure what I will wind up doing because I am not even sure it will make much of a difference in terms of audio quality lost during resampling under my current setup.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #15
For me, a realtek HD 883 with ICH7 south bridge. I don't have any problem with sound. Well with brand new OS and driver, it's just lucky or unlucky.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #16

but remember OpenAL in its current state only supports 8 bit and 16 bit output (so Foobar can't be set to 24 bit or 32 bit output, which sucks for us that have some 24 bit material)

this is not true I think, at least for X-FI.
it supports openal 1.1, and I've successfully tried to play up to 7.1 with 32 bit output with openal interface.


From the OpenAL 1.1 specifications:

Quote
Valid formats are AL_FORMAT_MONO8, AL_FORMAT_MONO16, AL_FORMAT_STEREO8, and AL_FORMAT_STEREO16


As you can see OpenAL only supports four formats at the moment, 8/16 bit mono/stereo material (I think a Creative extension adds multichannel support but definitely not 24/32 bit support).  If you don't believe me you can test this yourself, open up Foobar loaded with ALchemy and set the output to either 24/32 bit.  Then try to play a song, you'll hear nothing.  Then switch the output in Foobar to 8/16 bit and play a song.  You'll now hear the music.  I've tried this personally and can verify the results.

And of course linkage/references:
http://www.openal.org/openal_webstf/specs/...ecification.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAL

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #17
tried already, with alchemy I still can hear music, with 24/32.
also, you are right with the specification (I didn't read it through), but for X-Fi (not sure other), it definitely support 32 bit OAL output.

if you are using X-Fi too, use an hex editor to open CT_OAL.DLL, you'll found the strings:

AL_FORMAT_MONO8
AL_FORMAT_MONO16
AL_FORMAT_MONO32
AL_FORMAT_STEREO8
AL_FORMAT_STEREO16
AL_FORMAT_STEREO32
AL_FORMAT_QUAD8
AL_FORMAT_QUAD16
AL_FORMAT_QUAD32
AL_FORMAT_51CHN8
AL_FORMAT_51CHN16
AL_FORMAT_51CHN32
AL_FORMAT_71CHN8
AL_FORMAT_71CHN16
AL_FORMAT_71CHN32

I have personally written an output component for fb2k with OAL output, it plays for any bitdepth supported by fb2k.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #18
tried already, with alchemy I still can hear music, with 24/32.
also, you are right with the specification (I didn't read it through), but for X-Fi (not sure other), it definitely support 32 bit OAL output.

if you are using X-Fi too, use an hex editor to open CT_OAL.DLL, you'll found the strings:

AL_FORMAT_MONO8
AL_FORMAT_MONO16
AL_FORMAT_MONO32
AL_FORMAT_STEREO8
AL_FORMAT_STEREO16
AL_FORMAT_STEREO32
AL_FORMAT_QUAD8
AL_FORMAT_QUAD16
AL_FORMAT_QUAD32
AL_FORMAT_51CHN8
AL_FORMAT_51CHN16
AL_FORMAT_51CHN32
AL_FORMAT_71CHN8
AL_FORMAT_71CHN16
AL_FORMAT_71CHN32

I have personally written an output component for fb2k with OAL output, it plays for any bitdepth supported by fb2k.


Well it doesn't work for me, and when I used the ALchemy forums asking why this is so, here is the response I got from a Creative dev:

Quote
Hi,

That's correct - OpenAL only supports 8bit and 16bit audio at the moment.  OpenAL's primary market is games, which currently do not use higher quality sound assets.  If that changes, we'll probably add an appropriate extension to OpenAL to support those formats.

There isn't much benefit to using ALchemy for media players, and in this particular case you are actually losing out on features!    ALchemy is designed for games to it focuses on 3D Audio and EAX.

Dan


You are in gaming mode right?

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #19
Microsoft decided to drop hardware accelerated DirectSound in Vista. =(
There was some hope(someone could make an Open AL output component), but that wasn't allowed by the SDK license.

It looks dark for us with Vista and foobar2000.


I don't think foobar uses DS3D or whatever it was MS removed, so I don't see why it would impact foobar.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #20
I sometimes got audio stutter when a lot of operations were going on in Vista as well. Onboard AC97 with drivers from the Realtek site, running in 5.1 mode, Vista X64.

... I don't recall if it happened in DS or KS mode though.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #21
@willardjuice,

firstly, I'm in entertainment mode (I never use game mode).

secondly, as normal audio players don't require DS3D, so it's no point to use alchemy.

thirdly, I don't believe what creative said, if what the guy told you is true, why does it bother to have those AL_FORMAT_XXX32 in the CT_OAL.DLL? and do you still believe them while you are having shit driver for vista? my primary reason to buy the card was because of the hardware decoding of AC3/DTS and DVD-A, now it's pretty much useless.

the advantage to use OAL to play music is (my opinion) that no need to use the emulated DS (vista), directly to hardware (asio only supports 2 channels in entertainment mode, and KS is buggy, so OAL is the only option other than DS).

I can confirm (again, x-fi) supports it the 32bit output because while I'm playing it with my component, I try to change the sample rate and bit depth in the audio properties dialog in control panel, it has no effects to my current playing music.

there's one occasion the guy may be true, which is that the OAL interface actually converts the 32 bit to 16 bit before it plays, but let's hope it doesn't.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #22
Acropolis, would it be possible if I could try your OpenAL component? I guess it breaks all foobar2000's licenses and whatnot, I don't mind. As long as it works. =)
Btw. What are the requirements for it? I have an Audigy 2 ZS.

Thanks.
Windows 10 Pro x64 // foobar2000 1.3.10

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #23
firstly, I'm in entertainment mode (I never use game mode).


ALchemy doesn't load in any mode except for gaming mode.  32 bit output works for you because ALchemy reverts back to DirectSound in entertainment/creation mode (you aren't actually using OpenAL).  I have quickly looked through Creative's extensions for OpenAL, and I don't see any extension that adds 24 or 32 bit support (they do have an extension that adds multichannel).  Perhaps their documentation is not up to date, but I can confirm that ALchemy only works with 8 and 16 bit material.

I don't see why Dan would lie.  He works with both OpenAL and ALchemy (he would know better than anyone).  What's Creative's motive to hide 24 and 32 bit output support?  Wouldn't they want to advertise that support?  Perhaps it shows up in the driver because that's a feature they want to persue in the future (or currently working on right now).

Either way multichannel and new bit depth types are on the OpenAL wish-list/to-do list, so I would imagine that OpenAL 1.2 (or whatever the next OpenAL will be called) will have this support out of the box (then we don't have to wonder if it's supported through one of Creative's extensions).  Though I don't have the slightest idea when OpenAL 1.2 will debut.

Vista + Foobar2000 + DirectSound = Sound Glitches

Reply #24
since I don't use game mode and obviously alchemy is useless for audio player (as OAL), let's assume alchmey only works in game mode.

1. alchemly only is to translate DS3D to OAL, no matter working for audio player or not, it's still using DS because audio player doesn't use DS3D.

2. I will not say alchemy support 32bit for OAL, because it is a creative product, they can write the code so that 32 bit will not play in alchemy translate OAL (you are saying OAL doesn't support 32 bit based on alchemy observation).

3. I'm saying it supports is in a way that directly calling OAL DLL (of x-fi driver).

 
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