Backup Device

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Reply #25 – 2004-08-16 21:37:52

I use an offline HD.
About once a month, I plug it in, backup all the data again. Sometimes I completely delete it first from the backup. Anyway, I always browse through it from some time just after the backup in order to ensure that it works.
I don't see any egg problem. If the drive gets broken, I buy another one, and backup again. I can see if it gets broken every month. I wouldn't check DVD or CDR as often as that.
Considering how my CDRs behaved, I would have lost at least 30 % of what I've got if I did backup it on them. The CDRs failed no more than one year from each other, depending on the locations. In many cases, I would have lost both the files and the recovery files in all locations, unless I get them all back at home every three monthes in order to check them all.

In my opinion, the point is not what media, the point is how you handle your backup. ANY media will fail you if you store it somewhere and forget about it (exept maybe vinyl records). If you care about your data, check the backups regularly. For example, in the supermarkets for which I work, a full backup of the server is done every day and stored off line. All that people has to do, every day, is putting the DDS tape of the day in the player, and store the one inside the drive (from the day before) in its case.

Backup Device

Reply #26 – 2004-08-16 21:44:52

I built a seperate server for all my data and store everything on a RAID 5 array - that way if I have an HD failure I can just replace the dodgy drive and rebuild whilst losing nothing. But for belt and braces I back up everything vital every few months on a set of DAT DDS 2 tapes - takes about 20 but I just let it run in the background and swap tapes when I notice they have popped out. All this stuff can be bought cheap on eBay and is well worth doing for peace of mind

Backup Device

Reply #27 – 2004-08-16 23:18:15

I have also spent some time worrying about this problem, most solutions ignore the problems created by atmospheric detonations of neutron bombs too. I have started building a clustering mirrored server solution in a hardened bunker 40 miles from my home. I had some challenges with running the replication over this distance because of latency however these have been solved now (ESCOM is no longer part of the soltution). If you need help plotting blast zones, or calculating EMP intensities then PM me.

Love,
Fairy

Backup Device

Reply #28 – 2004-08-17 19:09:36

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There's a thread around here someplace where we discussed archiving to CD/DVD with PAR information.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233947"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It's a good idea, but make sure to use PAR2's instead of the original PAR format. PAR2's will work with partial files, original PAR only worked with whole files. Use a pretty small blocksize too, I'd say. In fact, if you make the blocksize equal to the sector size on the CD, that might work out really well.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233987"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm a little confused. Having investigated QuickPAR I must say that it is one of the more confusing UIs I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with. When you say "blocksize," do you mean the block size that you set on the "Options" page next to the "Exact" radio button? (BTW, blocksize for all DVD media is 2,048 bytes)

If so, how does that relate to the "Block allocation" block size? I can tell you one thing, if you make the "Block allocation" block size as small as you can (no where near 2,048 bytes) the "Compute time" becomes staggering.

On two 5 GB album-wavs, I set one for a block size of 2MB and it took about 1.5 minutes to compute. The other I set for a block size of 150KB and it took about 10 minutes. (P4-3.2, 1GB) All with 10% redundancy.

Any pointers?

Backup Device

Reply #29 – 2004-08-17 20:25:01

@rfarris: I'd suggest checking out the QuickPar forum for storing on DVDR/CDR.

Backup Device

Reply #30 – 2004-08-17 21:53:11

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Yes you will see a lot bad stories about CD-R, DVD-R etc. because of the amount of cheap media, cheap burners & excessive recording speeds plus that it’s rather fragile design compared to a hard disk drives which have thick steal protecting them.

If using CD-R I would follow these steps for something I don’t want to lose,

-Use quality media
-Burn at low speeds (8x)
-Check for errors after burn
-Store in a safe place (avoid Sunlight/Humidity/Water/Scratches/Extreme temperatures) - This is a hard disks advantage!
-Check for errors every 6 - 12 months

I agree with westgrov. The mean time between failures is far too high for a hard drive to consider it a 'backup' media. Taiyo Yuden CD-R is great media. Search the internet for reviews. Sony is great media too, surprise, it is mostly relabeled Taiyo Yuden.

Backup Device

Reply #31 – 2004-08-17 22:40:33

I use hard drives plus CD-RW and/or DVD+RW to backup my data, which includes both personal and business data.

I have two PCs on my network, one handheld device (PDA) and a removable 60GB drive in my car. The PCs each have 40GB internals, and the PDA uses Memory Sticks up to 512MB in capacity. I back up the PDA to this PC (my primary client machine), then that data and all other data on this PC's hard drive get backed up to a shared external 250GB hard drive that is connected via Firewire to my server. The server's internal HD is backed up the same way to the external drive.

Then all critical data (anything irreplaceable) on any network drive gets burned to either CD-RW or DVD+RW, depending on data volume. I keep two such off-network backup sets stored in two different locations. The optical discs themselves are replaced with new ones every six months.

My music is kept on two hard drives (the 60GB in my car and the external 250GB network drive). Therefore my music collection exists in three places at all times: the original CDs and both hard drives. Any rare or irreplaceable music and/or video files are backed up to optical disc as well, though, just to be safe.

In the case of data corruption or losing an internal HD, I can do quick recoveries from the external HD. In the case of losing the external, I can recover data from one of the optical disc backups.

So, in all, data is kept on a minimum of three backup sets, and more for some data (like what's on the PDA, which is backed up in four places: this PC, the external HD and two optical discs). Incremental backups are fully automated and done nightly. Burning the opticals is done weekly by hand. Standard backup activities require 5 to 10 minutes of my direct involvement each week. The rest takes care of itself (but I still do periodic integrity checks, though).

Edit: My obsession with data integrity comes from working for 13 years in IT operations management.

Backup Device

Reply #32 – 2004-08-18 01:51:43

I also use external hdds. It's very easy to use and synchronize (just copying) and I truly wanted to forget those long filenames and various ISO problems.

I wasted many hours burning cdrs, and when you have 100 CDRs, then you need to make an index to find which one has the information you want.

You can have those cdrs in a single hdd and if you're worried, make a copy on another hdd, it's so damn easy.

Backup Device

Reply #33 – 2004-08-18 09:53:33

Arf!!!

This morning I wanted to see something I recorded on a CD a while ago, just out of curiosity. I took for granted it was going to be readable. How wrong I was!! argh

This is a Verbatim DataLifePlus (MetalAzo dye, or so they call it) written at 4x (max speed of my old sony crx-100e) in february 2002. Stored all this time in my room, so no sun, no humidity, no heat, anything.

arfg!!! and I thought this was top-quality media!! It's disintegrating like any crappy cdr else, it just lasted longer....

I won't ever trust optical media anymore. HDs with external enclosures for me from now on.

Backup Device

Reply #34 – 2004-08-19 12:05:26

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I also use external hdds. It's very easy to use and synchronize (just copying) and I truly wanted to forget those long filenames and various ISO problems.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235221"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I second this. Many of my MPC files and html pages have too long filenames to be burned on CDR.

Backup Device

Reply #35 – 2004-08-19 12:36:53

Lucas, did you check the CD for errors after burning? can you use a tool such as Nero InfoTool to check who the CD is made by?

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I second this. Many of my MPC files and html pages have too long filenames to be burned on CDR.

Use UDF file system ; ) .

Backup Device

Reply #36 – 2004-08-19 13:27:35

Well, I didn't check for errors, but I watched the content from the disc after I burned it. I can't seem to be able to use any ATIP reader to see the information, I don't know why in my computer I've never been able to see it, no matter what program I use (I just tried nero infotool, nero cdspeed, cdr identifier and cdr atip reader and neither worked...)

Backup Device

Reply #37 – 2004-08-19 14:01:42

I use IDE HD for storage. Because hard drives are cheap, reliable and monitor-able with SMART. Optical storage has quite a random life duration/reliability.
As soon as I will have a Linux-proof computer, I will use software RAID 5. RAID 5 uses more than 3 drives, if one drive fails, no data is lost.

Backup Device

Reply #38 – 2004-08-19 15:59:23

Optical storage has a much longer shelf life provided you use good media. Taiyo Yuden is well known for its high quality. Some internet research on backup media and methods would be a good idea. Tape, DVD, and CD-R are generally accepted in the IT community. www.tomshardware.com is a good site.

I have worked around long filename issues in the past by using WinRAR or 7zip. I didn't get a much smaller file, but it did a great job of preserving the filenames.

Edit: Added link

Tom's Hardware storage article

Backup Device

Reply #39 – 2004-08-19 18:27:17

I archive music on Verbatim DVD-Rs, compressed using Apple Lossless.

I have never had any problems with long file names, neither on DVDs nor CDs, but that's probably because I don't use Windows. I usually use either UDF or hybrids of ISO, UDF and HFS.

Backup Device

Reply #40 – 2004-08-19 18:27:35

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@rfarris: I'd suggest checking out the QuickPar forum for storing on DVDR/CDR.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235154"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Atici, thank you. That was exactly the pointer I needed.

For search purposes: Anyone who would like to use QuickPar or some other PAR2 (par2cmdline, say) parity generator to add redundancy to CD/DVD archives of media files should check out the QuickPar forum which includes tutorials and other helpful information for beginners.

-- Rick

Backup Device

Reply #41 – 2004-08-20 11:57:20

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I can't seem to be able to use any ATIP reader to see the information, I don't know why in my computer I've never been able to see it, no matter what program I use[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235515"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Some drives can't read the ATIP after the CD is burned. Read it on blank CDRs.

Backup Device

Reply #42 – 2004-08-20 12:54:02

Got a 120GB HDD hooked up for my Audio Needs. FLAC is my preffered method. If I dig the whole CD, like Miles Davis or The Doors or something, I'll archive it in a lossless codec. But, if I am only after two or three songs (majority of my CDs), I usually just rip with OGG Vorbis. Very few of my CDs are worthy of a full tracklisting lossless backup.

Backup Device

Reply #43 – 2004-08-21 03:38:58

Ok, heres my take on this. I would invest some money and purchase and external harddrive. Keep all the packaging that comes with it. Fill the harddrive up. Package it backup in the box. Put it in a closet. Come back every couple of weeks and use (spin the harddrive).

I also consider Raid.