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Support for 64bit wav

Hi.. I've just upgraded from Steinberg cubase 9.5 to cubase 10... One of the new features is 64bit wav!! Now I can't hear the slightest change... But I did a test project and it hasn't caused any downsides either... Unsure I'll continue using it as I don't see any benefits to be honest!
The mix engine 64bit processing does seem to make a difference when using 64bit plugins (less CPU usage)
But using 64bit wav just seems overkill

When I came to archive this project I went to wavpack as I normally would and wavpack doesn't support 64bit audio... Is it on the cards?? Would be useful for future maybe!

Thanks!
Garry

Re: Support for 64bit wav

Reply #1
> But I did a test project and it hasn't caused any downsides either

How about 2x the disk footprint for no redeeming benefit?

Re: Support for 64bit wav

Reply #2
> But I did a test project and it hasn't caused any downsides either

How about 2x the disk footprint for no redeeming benefit?
Yep indeed!!
I really can't see/hear any benefits, and as you said just the space usage.

As far as I can make out, 64bit float wav would only be of use for true 32bit audio interfaces
Most audio interfaces are now 24bit..
(32bit is actually 24 bit, and 64bit would be 48bit)

My interfaces are 24bit so indeed recording at 64bit is just a waste of space... But interesting none the less and maybe for future proofing wavpack this 64bit wav should be supported.

There are a few true 32bit interfaces (the mytek Brooklyn for example is one) which would benefit from 64bit float (as in reallity 32bit float is 24bit and 64bit float is 48bit)

Anyway just a thought for any future wavpack releases!

Cheers
Garry

Re: Support for 64bit wav

Reply #3
Quote
As far as I can make out, 64bit float wav would only be of use for true 32bit audio interfaces
Most audio interfaces are now 24bit..
(32bit is actually 24 bit, and 64bit would be 48bit)

Interfaces that take 24 or 32 bit samples certainly exist, but none can actually use 24 bits making this irrelevant. No sense fretting about data your D/A discards anyway.

Re: Support for 64bit wav

Reply #4
It is not about sound, it is about the file itself, currently WAV uses 32 bit fields, which limits the size of the file and therefore the length of the music you can record. 64 bit files can be way bigger and you can record instead of just six and half hours of two channels with 16 bit and 44.1 kHz you can record over 3 million years.

Re: Support for 64bit wav

Reply #5
It is not about sound, it is about the file itself, currently WAV uses 32 bit fields, which limits the size of the file and therefore the length of the music you can record. 64 bit files can be way bigger and you can record instead of just six and half hours of two channels with 16 bit and 44.1 kHz you can record over 3 million years.

This thread is discussing fp64 samples in wav, not the wav64 format.

Re: Support for 64bit wav

Reply #6
OT: 64 bit float actually has a 53 bit mantissa, not 48.

Re: Support for 64bit wav

Reply #7
I have thought a little about putting in 64-bit support (I assume float64 only), but it's really low in my priority and I will be too busy to do anything that significant for the foreseeable future, so I kinda doubt it. There are some architectural issues (like that fact that WavPack currently processes audio in 32-bit wide buffers), and there's the issue that real 64-bit float audio data (in other words, audio that's been processed so that all the mantissa bits are used, as opposed to data that's really just something smaller stored in a 64-bit float) is not going to compress very well at all. So, if you can typically get 32% compression on 32-bit floats, I would expect only about 16% on real 64-bit floats.

Of course, one of the nice things about WavPack float compression is if it detects that, for instance, the audio is really only 16-bit, then it compresses it to the equivalent amount, and this would be even more useful if you were storing in 64-bit floats.

If this becomes popular and people start clamoring for it, I would certainly reconsider, but so far this is the first clamor.  :)

 

Re: Support for 64bit wav

Reply #8
I have thought a little about putting in 64-bit support (I assume float64 only), but it's really low in my priority and I will be too busy to do anything that significant for the foreseeable future, so I kinda doubt it. There are some architectural issues (like that fact that WavPack currently processes audio in 32-bit wide buffers), and there's the issue that real 64-bit float audio data (in other words, audio that's been processed so that all the mantissa bits are used, as opposed to data that's really just something smaller stored in a 64-bit float) is not going to compress very well at all. So, if you can typically get 32% compression on 32-bit floats, I would expect only about 16% on real 64-bit floats.

Of course, one of the nice things about WavPack float compression is if it detects that, for instance, the audio is really only 16-bit, then it compresses it to the equivalent amount, and this would be even more useful if you were storing in 64-bit floats.

If this becomes popular and people start clamoring for it, I would certainly reconsider, but so far this is the first clamor.  :)

Hey! Thanks I won't even be using 64fp myself, was just a test and until there is a real advantage to using it I'll be sticking with 32... But just thought it may benefit others and make wavpack a bit more future proof....
Certainly no need for it, thanks again for your amazing compression!!! I have about 11tb of multitrack wav projects archived away, I'd need a second Nas box if it wasn't for wavpack!

 
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