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high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #1
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/ars...t-in-las-vegas/
Nice! I'll start popping the corn!

Quote
Realistically, we also know that this test won’t sway anyone—if for no other reason than that audiophiles tend to discount the results of blind listening tests (especially A/B/X tests like we’re planning on conducting).
Exactly, but I'm sure they're just working out the kinds in their new, scientifically rigorous, stress-free listening tests.

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #2
Quote
it became pretty obvious that the folks who believed in this kind of thing really believed in it


And that's why dealing with such audiophool nonsense is a waste of time. You cannot reason with someone who actively does not want to be reasoned with.
They will always make excuses if the test results don't fit their prejudiced opinion.
"I hear it when I see it."

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #3
I'm mostly just disappointed that Ars Technica thought it was worth discussing at all.

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #4
If you show one person that he/she can't hear the difference then that is all that you have accomplished - one less person in the world that believes that the difference is audible. The rest of the world will go on believing whatever they believe.

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #5
Besides proving that one person can't hear the difference there's also the opportunity to make some money. That's why I challenge my audiophoolish friends to bets, giving them better than 1:1 odds in their favor. This way not only do you show them up that these silly myths are nothing but snake oil and are just plain baloney, you also make a profit.

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #6
What will happen when they publish a positive result?
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?


high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #8
Whenever I read about people/groups like JREF running ABX tests I always worry about them failing to account for things like:

- DAC latency differences

- impedance issues with wiring which cause minor frequency response skewing

- precise level matching using instrumentation
 


high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #9
It's an ethernet cable. Failing astonishing incompetence, volume matching shouldn't be a problem!

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #10
What will happen when they publish a positive result?

It will throw doubt on the assertion that you have to peek at it for 6 months under low stress conditions to properly "hear" it.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #11
As it takes complete ignorance of Ethernet to even give any credence to cables surrounding different, I have very little faith in the quality of the cables made by manufacturers that make such claims. It seems sensible to buy network cables from a company that actually understands network cables.

I would love to see these audiophool products tested as network cables, as in the tests done here: Is Your Cat 6 Cable a Dog?  http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-...-cat6-a-dog.htm

Yes, I know: the tests and article are from a cable company. It is one that is low on audiophoolery, though.

Next up: Does a CD sound different if it is delivered by different couriers? 
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #12
Just to report things i did read lately about this stuff.
Seems like the golden ear brigade agrees on that the ethernet cable is always clearly disturbing the sound of any audio gear nearby. Of course no one knows yet what to measure but it must be some packet noise or alike more than -160dB down.
I even learned that the 8kHz packet noise Archimago measured at his blog with USB proves exactly this because ethernet uses also packets!
If you want to learn from the thread i have this revolutionary knowledge from just look at the usual place
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #13
Just to report things i did read lately about this stuff.
Seems like the golden ear brigade agrees on that the ethernet cable is always clearly disturbing the sound of any audio gear nearby. Of course no one knows yet what to measure but it must be some packet noise or alike more than -160dB down.
I even learned that the 8kHz packet noise Archimago measured at his blog with USB proves exactly this because ethernet uses also packets!
If you want to learn from the thread i have this revolutionary knowledge from just look at the usual place


Ah, of course!  So, it's not minute perturbances in the mistimed FedEx IP packet deliveries after all!  Have they tried ferrite chokes, or would that just throw everything out of whack?

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #14
I would love to see these audiophool products tested as network cables, as in the tests done here: Is Your Cat 6 Cable a Dog?  http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-...-cat6-a-dog.htm


Thanks for the link, I may give them a try for data cables. Been kind of frustrated over network problems at work, both from "Category 6" patch cables as well as cables running through the walls and ceiling into some of the offices. Couple of times I've tried re-terminating but to no avail.

Yes in this instance, maybe better cables would make a very big audible improvement: Fewer people calling me to complain about dropped server connections!! Ahh the sound of no-complaints, such a sense of ease and lightness. 

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #15
Just to report things i did read lately about this stuff.
Seems like the golden ear brigade agrees on that the ethernet cable is always clearly disturbing the sound of any audio gear nearby. Of course no one knows yet what to measure but it must be some packet noise or alike more than -160dB down.
I even learned that the 8kHz packet noise Archimago measured at his blog with USB proves exactly this because ethernet uses also packets!
If you want to learn from the thread i have this revolutionary knowledge from just look at the usual place


Actually it's worse than that! This is the sort of reason I can't hang out on audiophile sites anymore:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=general&m=702019


high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #16
I would love to see these audiophool products tested as network cables, as in the tests done here: Is Your Cat 6 Cable a Dog?  http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-...-cat6-a-dog.htm


Thanks for the link, I may give them a try for data cables. Been kind of frustrated over network problems at work, both from "Category 6" patch cables as well as cables running through the walls and ceiling into some of the offices. Couple of times I've tried re-terminating but to no avail.

Yes in this instance, maybe better cables would make a very big audible improvement: Fewer people calling me to complain about dropped server connections!! Ahh the sound of no-complaints, such a sense of ease and lightness. 


I have actually bought audio cables from that company: It was a case of putting my money where my mouth was, as I had so often included links to their articles in my posts on various forums. Well-made cables with choice of materials based on stated electrical specifications, not on faith or pseudo-science. If this reads like an ad, then the usual disclaimer applies (no financial interest, no benefits received, just a happy browser/customer) but I do acknowledge that it is possible that I just fell for a different marketing technique.

As to the data cables, I'm now ashamed to say that, back in those days of employment, I did actually use cheap stuff for flyleads, simply throwing it away if there was a problem. Maybe that was a big mistake, but it is decades too late to change now. The undeniably audible results you mention are, indeed, much to be desired! Much less fatigue!
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #17
Just to report things i did read lately about this stuff.
Seems like the golden ear brigade agrees on that the ethernet cable is always clearly disturbing the sound of any audio gear nearby. Of course no one knows yet what to measure but it must be some packet noise or alike more than -160dB down.
I even learned that the 8kHz packet noise Archimago measured at his blog with USB proves exactly this because ethernet uses also packets!
If you want to learn from the thread i have this revolutionary knowledge from just look at the usual place


I have a number of USB DACs where SNR measurements detect 8 KHz packet noise.

Interestingly enough some of them can be "cured" by optimizing the connection from the analog output of the DAC to the rest of the system.



high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #20
Archimago finds the test protocol disappointing

bottom of this post:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/08/meas...ption.html#more


I agree with all of his points.  The test should simulate a plausible "audiophile" system.



I agreed too. The Randi group has never really grasped the particulars of what a 'convincing' audio debunking would entail.  And it's not like people who*do* know, haven't offered to guide them...as far back as the 'Pear Cable'  fracas.


So: another trainwreck for the clown show to honk their clown horns at.

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #21
Next up: Does a CD sound different if it is delivered by different couriers? 


Yeah, if the guy will stay in your parkway for hours burning tires while you play it.
High Voltage socket-nose-avatar

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #22
Archimago finds the test protocol disappointing

bottom of this post:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/08/meas...ption.html#more


I agree with all of his points.  The test should simulate a plausible "audiophile" system.



I agreed too. The Randi group has never really grasped the particulars of what a 'convincing' audio debunking would entail.  And it's not like people who*do* know, haven't offered to guide them...as far back as the 'Pear Cable'  fracas.


So: another trainwreck for the clown show to honk their clown horns at.


I object to Grado headphones on general principle.  Take a look at this, the higher-end version of RS2e:


http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoRS1eFlatPads.pdf

Of course, it's possible that the cheaper ones sound better.

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #23
Just to report things i did read lately about this stuff.
Seems like the golden ear brigade agrees on that the ethernet cable is always clearly disturbing the sound of any audio gear nearby. Of course no one knows yet what to measure but it must be some packet noise or alike more than -160dB down.
I even learned that the 8kHz packet noise Archimago measured at his blog with USB proves exactly this because ethernet uses also packets!
If you want to learn from the thread i have this revolutionary knowledge from just look at the usual place


I have a number of USB DACs where SNR measurements detect 8 KHz packet noise.

Interestingly enough some of them can be "cured" by optimizing the connection from the analog output of the DAC to the rest of the system.


Those don't sound like very good DAC's.  What kind of noise floor are we talking about?

Do you mean a cable "upgrade?"

high-profile ABX test of ethernet cables

Reply #24
Just to report things i did read lately about this stuff.
Seems like the golden ear brigade agrees on that the ethernet cable is always clearly disturbing the sound of any audio gear nearby. Of course no one knows yet what to measure but it must be some packet noise or alike more than -160dB down.
I even learned that the 8kHz packet noise Archimago measured at his blog with USB proves exactly this because ethernet uses also packets!
If you want to learn from the thread i have this revolutionary knowledge from just look at the usual place


I have a number of USB DACs where SNR measurements detect 8 KHz packet noise.

Interestingly enough some of them can be "cured" by optimizing the connection from the analog output of the DAC to the rest of the system.


Those don't sound like very good DAC's.  What kind of noise floor are we talking about?


Well over 100 dB below FS.

Quote
Do you mean a cable "upgrade?"


The DACs I'm talking about have RCA jack unbalanced outputs. My test equipment has TRS or XLR balanced inputs.  There are a number of different ways to make an unbalanced to balanced adapter, and some work better than others in terms of rejecting the usual hash that seems to surround USB converters.

 
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