Hydrogenaudio Forums

Lossless Audio Compression => Lossless / Other Codecs => Topic started by: TBeck on 2007-10-21 22:27:47

Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: TBeck on 2007-10-21 22:27:47
Beta release 1 of TAK 1.0.2 ((T)om's lossless (A)udio (K)ompressor)

It consists of:

- TAK Applications 1.0.2
- TAK Winamp plugin 1.0.5.
- TAK SDK 1.0.4.
- TAK Decoding library 1.0.5.

Download:

Download links removed. TAK 1.0.2 Final (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=58783&view=findpost&p=527886) has been released.

1. TAK Applications 1.0.2

containing the GUI and command line compressor:

2. TAK Winamp plugin 1.0.5

containing the playback plugin for Winamp:

3. TAK SDK 1.0.4

containing the SDK documentation and the decoding library dll for developers:

4. TAK Decoding library 1.0.5

containing only the decoding library dll which is part of the SDK. It's provided for end users using third-party applications utilizing the library, who want to update the library to the current version:


After the beta test phase these archives will be removed.


What's new

What's new in the Applications

New preset configuration:

- Most of the presets have been modified to speed them up and to reduce the decoding requirements. Usually they are more than 50 percent faster while loosing only about 0.3 percent of compression efficiency.
- The fastest preset TURBO (-p0) is now using 8 instead of 16 predictors and compresses (on average) nevertheless better than FLAC -8 (with 12 predictors). The reduced cpu requirements should guarantee that this preset can be decoded on any hardware device capable to playback FLAC -8 (maybe even -5).
- Because of the insertion of the new TURBO preset we now have 6 instead of 5 presets: -p0 to -p5. The strongest setting is now -p5m and it's called INSANE.
- The maximum frame size (samples per channel) is now limited as follows: 4096 for TURBO and FAST, 8192 for NORMAL, HIGH and EXTRA, 16384 for INSANE. This way the specification of the memory requirements of the decoder is more accurate.

New Features:

- You can now manually set the frame size to 512, 1024 or 2048 samples to match the frame size of the LossyWav/LossyFlac preprocessor developed by the Hydrogenaudio.org-Members 2Bdecided, Nick C. and halb27. But caution: Frame sizes of 512, 1024 and 2048 are not backwards compatible and can not be decoded by TAK applications and libraries prior to V1.0.2!

Improvements:

- The strongest compression mode -p5m (aka -p4m in V1.0.1) is now encoding 62 percent faster on my system and is on average loosing only 0.01 percent compression!
- Tiny overall speed improvements.
- Better compression of some low passed files and files coming from lossy sources (especially low and medium constant bitrate). Up to more than 1 % for presets Turbo, Fast and Normal, up to 0.3 precent for High, Extra and Insane. This comes without any significant speed penality.
- Modification of the file read function of the decoder. It's now reading the file in smaller blocks. This will hopefully increase the decoding speed of high resolution audio, which seems to be suffering from the io system of V1.0.1.

Fixed:

- The file info function was rounding the file duration to the nearest second. Now it's correctly displaying the fraction with 2 decimal places. (30.53 instead of 36.00 seconds).
- When compressing 96 Khz audio with preset HIGH, preset EXTRA has been stored into the encoder meta data. This had no effect on the decoding or data integrity, but the file info function and media players will display the wrong preset.

What's new in the encoder/decoder library (affecting the applications, the decoding library and the Winamp plugin):

New features:

- Support for frame sizes of 512, 1024 and 2048 samples which have been introduced with TAK V1.0.2.
- Support for the additional preset INSANE introduced with TAK V1.0.2.

Improvements:

- The memory requirements have been reduced. Depending on the preset the encoder is now using 2 to 3 times, the encoder 1.5 to 2.5 times less memory. This may slightly improve the speed on some cpus. But i did it primarily to prepare later hardware implementations.
- Considerable parts of the source code have been partially rewritten or simplified. It's in no way important for the current users (well, like any modification it might even introduce bugs...), but it's part of the preparation of a later source code release. It's only one more step into this direction, there is still much more to do. As always, i can't tell you a release date.

Bug fixes:

- The decoder is expected to process any (damaged) data without any problems. But i have found and corrected two cases, where the decoder could crash. The chance for this was less than 1 : 1000 (for damaged files only!).
- In one place i used an invalid flag combination in a call of Windows' VirtualFree().

What's new in the SDK (compared to 1.0.3):

Interface changes (Adaptions for TAK 1.0.2):

- Added constants for the new frame sizes (Ttak_str_FrameSizeTypes): tak_FrameSizeType_512 to tak_FrameSizeType_12288.
- Added constant for the new preset INSANE (TtakPresets): tak_Preset_Insane.

Interface Compatibility:

- The decoder functions tak_SSD_GetStreamInfo and tak_SSD_GetEncoderInfo may now return the new values for the frame size (Ttak_str_FrameSizeTypes) and the encoder preset/profile (TtakPresets) which have been introduced with TAK 1.0.2 (see "Interface changes").

Beta testing

The beta version has already gone through extensive testing performed by my automatic scripts. But especially because of the many changes for 1.0.2 rare bugs are still possible (as always...). Please try the beta release and report any bugs in this thread.

I would also be happy about tests of compression efficiency and speed. Because the final release will have identical performance (there may be a speed variation of 1 to 3 percent because of different code alignment of another build), it does make sense to test the beta.

Thanks for testing and have fun

  Thomas
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Mangix on 2007-10-21 22:28:13
what archives?
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: IgorC on 2007-10-21 23:15:50
Good news.
When is it planed top get optimizated for speed foobar decoder plugin?  Actual TAK plugin for foobar is approx. 30% slower than command line decoder.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Dologan on 2007-10-21 23:40:01
Is pipe-encoding support planned for the final version, Tom?

In any case, thank you for your work!  TAK is already hands down my lossless format of choice
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Synthetic Soul on 2007-10-22 08:01:10
I would also be happy about tests of compression efficiency and speed. Because the final release will have identical performance (there may be a speed variation of 1 to 3 percent because of different code alignment of another build), it does make sense to test the beta.
I'll get my standard tests done in the next day or so Thomas.  Nice to see the codec continuing to improve.

Is pipe-encoding support planned for the final version, Tom?
It's in the pipeline.  If you check docs it's on the to-do list.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: alvaro84 on 2007-10-22 09:55:39
I just have downloaded the new beta, and done some very quick testing. I normally use the normal max settings and they seem to be a bit worse compression-wise than before; the difference seems to be 0 to 0.5 percent (0 percent for Porcupine Tree and 0.5 percent for Björk - I have yet to try other things) - not too significant though I'd like to set the old normal max settings manually. It's possible, I presume

The decoding library became a bit faster, its speed has increased to 321-fold in one particular case (an 'old' normal max encoded Porcupine Tree track just to be specific ) measured in foobar2k - it was 307-fold before (4.5% increasy, pretty good ). It's good to see every bit of increase in decoding speed, especially if we hope for future hardware support.

Reading the preview of the new encoding parameter set I thought that I'll use high max from now on - it won't be the case. High max preserved its knack for compressing a little bit worse than Normal max in some cases, while it's slower to (encode and) decode. The new settings are not the end of the world, I just liked the old NM better

Now I'm leaning towards using the 1.0.1 encoder (or the new one with manually enforced 'old' normal max) and the new decoder lib - encoding speed doesn't really matter for me, I mostly encode my music once and my system is plenty fast to handle the encoding of those occassional few new albums (I don't have a rapidly growing multi-terabyte music collection, months can pass without anything new ).

But, all in all, TAK still rocks, I always liked its characteristics (I've been watching its birth since last year's 1st of April) - FLAC speed with better compression, and this is still the same
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: TBeck on 2007-10-22 10:33:07
what archives?

I was a bit slower than you...

Good news.
When is it planed top get optimizated for speed foobar decoder plugin?  Actual TAK plugin for foobar is approx. 30% slower than command line decoder.

The foobar plugin is using my decoding library which contains exactly the same code as my applications. I suppose that the foobar plugin or foobar itself is responsible for the lower speed. There is nothing i can do...

Is pipe-encoding support planned for the final version, Tom?

Not this time. Sorry... But it's on my todo list.

In any case, thank you for your work!  TAK is already hands down my lossless format of choice

 

I would also be happy about tests of compression efficiency and speed. Because the final release will have identical performance (there may be a speed variation of 1 to 3 percent because of different code alignment of another build), it does make sense to test the beta.
I'll get my standard tests done in the next day or so Thomas.  Nice to see the codec continuing to improve.

Great! BTW: I forgot to mention: There is no difference between -p4/-p4e and -p5/-p5e. There were no encoder options left to create an extra evaluation level...

I just have downloaded the new beta, and done some very quick testing. I normally use the normal max settings and they seem to be a bit worse compression-wise than before; the difference seems to be 0 to 0.5 percent (0 percent for Porcupine Tree and 0.5 percent for Björk - I have yet to try other things) - not too significant though I'd like to set the old normal max settings manually. It's possible, I presume

O yes, it is... At least if you are working with the command line version. Please try this: "-p3m,pf0". It will disable the PreFilter which is responsible for the slight decoding speed penality. I will also make this option accessible in the GUI version.

But, all in all, TAK still rocks, I always liked its characteristics (I've been watching its birth since last year's 1st of April) - FLAC speed with better compression, and this is still the same

Thank you! That's very motivating.

  Thomas
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: gaekwad2 on 2007-10-22 21:07:42
Here are some results from a 2.6GHz Pentium 4 using 46 files (more or less) representative of my cd collection:

Code: [Select]
1.0.2 Beta 1   size (bytes)     percent  encoding speed decoding speed                                            
-p0              1623010174      54,14    123,15          143,82
-p0e            1615739367      53,9      90,77          142,61
-p0m            1612224463      53,78      49,39          143,48
-p1              1606970522      53,6      105,84          128,02
-p1e            1604905867      53,54      84,38          126,64
-p1m            1601617850      53,43      43,95          128,65
-p2              1581734990      52,76      78,44          118,64
-p2e            1578204991      52,64      59,8            118,56
-p2m            1575307844      52,55      32,7            117,73
-p3              1571489425      52,42      46,6            110,66
-p3e            1569148414      52,34      35,55          111,28
-p3m            1567753199      52,3      23,72          110,63
-p4              1561633116 (!)  52,09      29,64          101,24
-p4e            1561633116 (!)  52,09      29,62          100,34
-p4m            1560386681      52,05      16,37            94,28
-p5              1558565633 (!)  51,99      21,82            93,94
-p5e            1558565633 (!)  51,99      21,85            94,16
-p5m            1557170401      51,94      10,43            95

as comparison: 1.0.1                                                                                       
-p0              1612577422      53,79    114,09          129,76
-p0e            1604816093      53,53      85,04          130,2
-p0m            1601334557      53,42      40,34          129,3
-p1              1582760941      52,8      82,75          122,65
-p1e            1578210266      52,65      59,44          121,17
-p1m            1575082039      52,54      30,13          121,68
-p2              1572754511      52,46      51,74          118,28
-p2e            1571904174      52,43      33,34          118,88
-p2m            1569993171      52,37      25,26          119,68
-p3              1562677922      52,13      31,69            98,83
-p3e            1561954330      52,1      19,04            97,81
-p3m            1560108995      52,04      15,44            98,73
-p4              1558386544      51,98      20,21            91,72
-p4e            1557468738      51,95      10,61            94,47
-p4m            1556940882      51,94      7,7            92,94

-p4e and -p5e produce identical files to -p4 and -p5, did you remove the extra evaluation level for those presets?
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Synthetic Soul on 2007-10-22 22:25:35
-p4e and -p5e produce identical files to -p4 and -p5, did you remove the extra evaluation level for those presets?
BTW: I forgot to mention: There is no difference between -p4/-p4e and -p5/-p5e. There were no encoder options left to create an extra evaluation level...
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: gaekwad2 on 2007-10-22 22:47:15
Ah, I missed that (I did look whether it was mentioned anywhere).
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Bourne on 2007-10-22 23:08:22
Good work Tom.
When it gets tag support and pipe-encoding, I will switch to it !
These are the only features that held me back for a complete switch.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: CioCio on 2007-10-23 05:46:30
Mind if I ask what pipe-encoding is?
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Gow on 2007-10-23 05:58:07
It encodes the file that is inputed on the fly as opposed to converting it to wav than converting it to the format.

I like the new encoding speed.  Can't wait for Tak 1.02 final.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Jerethi on 2007-10-23 07:29:11
Excellent!

Has anyone gotten TAK to work successfully with dbpoweramp?  I've been trying to set up a CLI encoder, but keep hitting a dead end.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: dethis on 2007-10-23 11:39:28
My interpretation of gaekwad2's results


Code: [Select]

version        preset            size (bytes)    percent    enc.speed    dec.speed                                           
1.0.2            -p0              1623010174      54,14      123,15          143,82
1.0.1            -p0f                N/A            N/A        N/A              N/A
-
1.0.2            -p1              1606970522      53,60      105,84          128,02
1.0.1            -p0              1612577422      53,79      114,09          129,76
diff                                                0,19        8,25
-
1.0.2            -p2              1581734990      52,76        78,44          118,64
1.0.1            -p1              1582760941      52,80        82,75          122,65
diff                                                0,04        4,31
-
1.0.2            -p3              1571489425      52,42        46,60          110,66
1.0.1            -p2              1572754511      52,46        51,74          118,28
diff                                                0,04        5,14
-
1.0.2            -p4              1561633116      52,09        29,64          101,24
1.0.1            -p3              1562677922      52,13        31,69            98,83
diff                                                0,04        2,04
-
1.0.2            -p5              1558565633      51,99        21,82            93,94
1.0.1            -p4              1558386544      51,98        20,21            91,72
diff                                                -0,01        -1,61
-
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: TBeck on 2007-10-23 12:11:38
My interpretation of gaekwad2's results
...

You've got it! 

The 1.0.1 presets have been moved up by one position to insert the new Turbo preset and to have a faster Normal preset. Some presets are now encoding a bit slower because i have added one or two more encoder options to the standard evaluation level.

Code improvements mostly affect the Maximum and to some degree the Extra evaluation level. From the change log:

- The strongest compression mode -p5m (aka -p4m in V1.0.1) is now encoding 62 percent faster on my system and is on average loosing only 0.01 percent compression!

gaekwad2's results show a speedup of 35 % for -p5m (aka -p4m in V1.0.1). I am confident, that other cpu's (P3, Core Duo) will show a bigger advantage. The P4 never really liked my optimizations...

  Thomas
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: dethis on 2007-10-23 13:40:28
.......

- The strongest compression mode -p5m (aka -p4m in V1.0.1) is now encoding 62 percent faster on my system and is on average loosing only 0.01 percent compression!

.......

  Thomas


The same happens with V1.0.1 p4e vs p4m in gaekad2's sample .... loosing 0.01 % compression while it encodes at 10.61x (1.0.1-p4e) vs 7.70x (1.0.1-p4m) ..... vs 10.43x(1.0.2-p5m)

may be the p5e mode is the missing target 
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: TBeck on 2007-10-24 14:08:09
Here are some results from a 2.6GHz Pentium 4 using 46 files (more or less) representative of my cd collection:
...

Thank you!



.......

- The strongest compression mode -p5m (aka -p4m in V1.0.1) is now encoding 62 percent faster on my system and is on average loosing only 0.01 percent compression!

.......

  Thomas


The same happens with V1.0.1 p4e vs p4m in gaekad2's sample .... loosing 0.01 % compression while it encodes at 10.61x (1.0.1-p4e) vs 7.70x (1.0.1-p4m) ..... vs 10.43x(1.0.2-p5m)

may be the p5e mode is the missing target 

 

Good work Tom.
When it gets tag support and pipe-encoding, I will switch to it !
These are the only features that held me back for a complete switch.

I think internal tagging will come with the next release, but probably (first) without unicode support.

Am i right, that piping support for encoding is most important? I mean: Read the audio data from a pipe and compress it to a file? I would like to implement this first.

  Thomas
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: The Link on 2007-10-24 14:39:10
I think internal tagging will come with the next release, but probably (first) without unicode support.
Since non-unicode capable environments are hardly existing anymore, I'd suggest to take up time to support unicode in the first place. In my opinion unicode is an important feature when tagging music files especially if you already discovered the diversity beyond the mainstream. This is just a remark and not a request.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: kanak on 2007-10-24 15:50:36
Am i right, that piping support for encoding is most important? I mean: Read the audio data from a pipe and compress it to a file? I would like to implement this first.


Yes! Please implement piping first! Right now, when encoding using foobar, we can't see how many minutes are remaining or anything which is terrible . Piping support would be awesome!

I'm currently transcoding my entire collection from -p4 to -p5m. I'll post data soon.

Thanks for your hard  work!
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Gow on 2007-10-24 15:56:15
+1 for piping support.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: sundance on 2007-10-24 16:18:32
...and another vote for piping support!
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Alexxander on 2007-10-24 17:23:33
I suspect that Unicode support will broaden the userbase more than piping support does so I doubt which one I prefer.

But I have no doubts about the third place: embedding md5 hash of audio part.

Edit: typo
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Scidd0w on 2007-10-24 18:27:17
+1 for piping support.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: greynol on 2007-10-24 18:42:43
...and another for piping support at the command line which can at least provide stdout when used with foobar.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: CioCio on 2007-10-24 20:25:03
I'm currently transcoding my entire collection from -p4 to -p5m. I'll post data soon.


Yes, please do.  I'm definitely interested in what results you get
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Mangix on 2007-10-24 23:16:01
+1 for piping
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: alvaro84 on 2007-10-25 12:23:46
O yes, it is... At least if you are working with the command line version. Please try this: "-p3m,pf0". It will disable the PreFilter which is responsible for the slight decoding speed penality. I will also make this option accessible in the GUI version.


Thanks, it seems to be very close to the 'legacy' normal max, I'll experiment a bit with it when I'll have some time
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: shnutils on 2007-10-25 20:00:39
piping++;
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Doobrik on 2007-10-25 21:48:57
IMHO, piping support is one of the most important features at this moment.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Synthetic Soul on 2007-10-27 21:48:30
Thomas,

1.0.2b added to my comparison (http://www.synthetic-soul.co.uk/comparison/lossless/).  This list (http://www.synthetic-soul.co.uk/comparison/lossless/?all=1) contains 1.0.2 and 1.0.1 for comparison.  You may find the 'download as CSV' functionality useful to get a clearer picture; here's my attempt:

Code: [Select]
Version   Encoder Setting        Comp     Enc     Dec
=====================================================
1.0.1b    TAK Turbo           64.929%    104x    118x
1.0.2b    TAK Turbo           65.281%    110x    129x
1.0.1b    TAK Turbo Max       64.521%     41x    117x
1.0.2b    TAK Turbo Max       64.888%     50x    127x
1.0.1b    TAK Turbo Extra     64.633%     80x    116x
1.0.2b    TAK Turbo Extra     65.003%     85x    127x
1.0.1b    TAK Fast            64.145%     66x    112x
1.0.2b    TAK Fast            64.732%     94x    122x
1.0.1b    TAK Fast Max        63.869%     28x    111x
1.0.2b    TAK Fast Max        64.531%     45x    122x
1.0.1b    TAK Fast Extra      63.963%     50x    113x
1.0.2b    TAK Fast Extra      64.638%     79x    121x
1.0.1b    TAK Normal          63.875%     45x    109x
1.0.2b    TAK Normal          64.093%     62x    113x
1.0.1b    TAK Normal Max      63.795%     25x    110x
1.0.2b    TAK Normal Max      63.875%     31x    113x
1.0.1b    TAK Normal Extra    63.853%     31x    109x
1.0.2b    TAK Normal Extra    63.963%     50x    113x
1.0.1b    TAK High            63.684%     28x     96x
1.0.2b    TAK High            63.868%     40x    108x
1.0.1b    TAK High Max        63.607%     15x     96x
1.0.2b    TAK High Max        63.760%     22x    108x
1.0.1b    TAK High Extra      63.663%     18x     96x
1.0.2b    TAK High Extra      63.801%     31x    109x
1.0.1b    TAK Extra           63.585%     19x     87x
1.0.2b    TAK Extra           63.657%     27x    101x
1.0.1b    TAK Extra Extra     63.547%     10x     88x
1.0.2b    TAK Extra Extra     63.657%     27x    101x
1.0.1b    TAK Extra Max       63.527%      7x     87x
1.0.2b    TAK Extra Max       63.616%     16x    102x
1.0.2b    TAK Insane          63.587%     20x     91x
1.0.2b    TAK Insane Extra    63.587%     20x     91x
1.0.2b    TAK Insane Max      63.532%     10x     93x
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: IgorC on 2007-10-29 09:39:12
New preset p0 with 8 predictors  results very interesting for transcoding scenario.
It's faster for en/decoding and has higher compression than FLAC -5 ... -8
Is it possible to see even lower complexity turbo preset? This way it will have compression ratio like FLAC -8 and complexity of FLAC 0. The main goal will be very high decode speed for transcoding lossless to lossy.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: TBeck on 2007-10-30 16:49:53
Thomas,

1.0.2b added to my comparison (http://www.synthetic-soul.co.uk/comparison/lossless/).  This list (http://www.synthetic-soul.co.uk/comparison/lossless/?all=1) contains 1.0.2 and 1.0.1 for comparison.  You may find the 'download as CSV' functionality useful to get a clearer picture; here's my attempt:
...

Thank you very much! Nice results...

Some remarks:

Code: [Select]
1.0.1b    TAK Turbo           64.929%    104x    118x
1.0.2b    TAK Turbo           65.281%    110x    129x

I like this new very low complexity preset. The speed advantage over old TURBO isn't big but significant and the compression efficiency is still good.

Code: [Select]
1.0.1b    TAK Normal          63.875%     45x    109x
1.0.2b    TAK Normal          64.093%     62x    113x

You always told me, that you would like to see a faster NORMAL preset.... Normal is now using only 32 predictors which does make perfect sense, because 32 is the most bang-for-the-buck-condition (efficiency / complexity). I should have done this earlier, but there was some kind of a psychological barrier in my mind: Before the first publication of YALAC/TAK i have always focussed on strong compression and not on speed.

Code: [Select]
1.0.1b    TAK Extra Max       63.527%      7x     87x
1.0.2b    TAK Insane Max      63.532%     10x     93x

A nice encoding speed up for the guys who are always using TAK's strongest mode. It's surely worth the compression disadvantage of 0.005 percent. As you can see, i have also improved the decoding speed a bit.

To summarize: I really like the new preset configuration.

New preset p0 with 8 predictors  results very interesting for transcoding scenario.
It's faster for en/decoding and has higher compression than FLAC -5 ... -8
Is it possible to see even lower complexity turbo preset? This way it will have compression ratio like FLAC -8 and complexity of FLAC 0. The main goal will be very high decode speed for transcoding lossless to lossy.

I could reduce the predictor count from 8 to 4. But this doesn't make much sense. First you will loose about 0.7 percent of compression. Second: The effect on the decoding speed will be hardly noticable. Going for 4 predictors would have only one real advantage: I could significantly increase the encoding speed.

BTW: I am working on a new codec which -among other things- will decode a bit faster (currently about 6 percent for Turbo).

  Thomas
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: IgorC on 2007-10-30 19:17:14
Quote
I could reduce the predictor count from 8 to 4. But this doesn't make much sense. First you will loose about 0.7 percent of compression. Second: The effect on the decoding speed will be hardly noticable. Going for 4 predictors would have only one real advantage: I could significantly increase the encoding speed.


I don't know what others need but oftenly I need to compress wav files to FLAC -0. It permits instantly save a space just  for really very short time.
0.7%  isn't that much for this purpose. The difference per cd will be 2-4 mb.  And compression ratio may be as good as FLAC -5.

I try to see TAK as alternative  to my FLAC rips 
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: TBeck on 2007-11-02 14:01:29
Have you found any bugs?

I would like to release TAK 1.0.2 Final. If you have found any bugs in the beta, please tell me now!

For the feature requests

Hm, seems as if the winner is piping... Hopefully i will implement piping support for encoding in V1.0.3. 

...
I don't know what others need but oftenly I need to compress wav files to FLAC -0. It permits instantly save a space just  for really very short time.
0.7%  isn't that much for this purpose. The difference per cd will be 2-4 mb.  And compression ratio may be as good as FLAC -5.

I try to see TAK as alternative  to my FLAC rips 

Fine! 

According to Synthetic Soul's comparison TAK Turbo is decoding only 9 percent slower than FLAC -0. And as i wrote earlier, the optimized TAK codec i am working on is allready decoding another 6 percent faster.

  Thomas
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: IgorC on 2007-11-02 14:10:42
According to Synthetic Soul's comparison TAK Turbo is decoding only 9 percent slower than FLAC -0. And as i wrote earlier, the optimized TAK codec i am working on is allready decoding another 6 percent faster.


Not to be a pain for nobody but it's 10%.  Decoding times:
TAK turbo  01:32.614   
FLAC -0    01:24.128
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Yakhobian on 2007-11-02 14:37:27
Have you found any bugs?

I would like to release TAK 1.0.2 Final. If you have found any bugs in the beta, please tell me now!

I'm not sure if it's specific to 1.0.2, but when I use the tak winamp plugin in the latest version of winamp (5.5), I have noticed one possible bug. If I have any tak file queued in the playlist when I quit winamp, the next time I try to start winamp it instantly crashes. The only way for me to start winamp again is to delete the local playlist files from winamp's directory.
I admit that this could just be winamp's fault, as I don't think it happened in the last version of winamp, nevertheless, I thought you might be interested to know.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: GeSomeone on 2007-11-02 15:46:08

TAK Turbo is decoding only 9 percent slower than FLAC -0.


Not to be a pain for nobody but it's 10%.  Decoding times:
TAK turbo  01:32.614   
FLAC -0    01:24.128

From those 2 figures it's  9.16% 
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: robert on 2007-11-02 15:51:28
92.614 / 84.128 = 1,1008701027006466337010270064663
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: greynol on 2007-11-02 16:41:09
It took TAK 12.8% longer than flac, likewise, using flac saved 11.3% over TAK.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: GeSomeone on 2007-11-02 17:05:42
8.48/0.9261=9.1566
8.48/0.8413=10.079

It depends whether you calculate the percentage from the fastest or the slower. 
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: spockep on 2007-11-02 21:49:25
The winamp plugin for TAK still has that weird bug.  If I close winamp with a TAK file loaded, I get an error when starting winamp again.  Other than that I've had no problems.
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: Dr. Oviri on 2007-11-04 00:41:19
The winamp plugin for TAK still has that weird bug.  If I close winamp with a TAK file loaded, I get an error when starting winamp again.  Other than that I've had no problems.


It's true 

However always a good job Thomas 
Title: TAK 1.0.2 - Beta release 1
Post by: TBeck on 2007-11-05 03:07:04
TAK 1.0.2 Final has been released

Please post further comments here (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=58783&view=findpost&p=527886).

Many thanks for testing the beta release!

  Thomas
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