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Hydrogenaudio Forum => Validated News => Topic started by: Frank Klemm on 2004-02-21 23:54:37

Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Frank Klemm on 2004-02-21 23:54:37
***Thank you very much.***

Thank you for your donation. The non-material value is much much
higher than the material value, which is BTW also astonishing.
I never believed that this is possible. I though it is a crazy idea by a crazy
person. But I was wrong.

To continue the process which started, we need people which also
do the work, which is necessary and which can be done by other people
better than by me. We need 10...20% of the people who gave donations
to divide the quest into clear jobs, which can be separately and more
carefully be done. This would be great.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Vertigo on 2004-02-22 01:07:01
Are you asking us to lend you our ears?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: cosmos816 on 2004-02-22 08:10:29
Quote
Are you asking us to lend you our ears?

And to summarize all the things need to be done in order to have a clear roadmap.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: honz318712 on 2004-02-22 08:30:25
Quote
***Thank you very much.***

same to you! welcome back...
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: jtclipper on 2004-02-22 12:03:23
Quote
***Thank you very much.***

Thank you for your donation. The non-material value is much much
higher than the material value, which is BTW also astonishing.
I never believed that this is possible. I though it is a crazy idea by a crazy
person. But I was wrong.

To continue the process which started, we need people which also
do the work, which is necessary and which can be done by other people
better than by me. We need 10...20% of the people who gave donations
to divide the quest into clear jobs, which can be separately and more
carefully be done. This would be great.

hmm... maybe mpc is a lot bigger than you think it is.
People use it and they love it.
BTW you could make a s** load more non-material or material value out of it.
Just sit down and realize the potential, it can be wide spread and ..dangerous for all other codes out there.
peace 
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: rc55 on 2004-02-22 13:43:40
Great to have you back Frank!

Of course, any help you may need - there are many people here for you.

Thanks also to all the donators! It's great that you can all rally together for the sake of progress. <3

Ruairi
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: grbmusic on 2004-02-22 19:15:13
Welcome back Frank!!! I love your job with Musepack!!!
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Fr4nz on 2004-02-22 19:21:49
My ears are at your disposal 
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: seanyseansean on 2004-02-22 19:48:53
I'm happy to do some C coding, ABXing and testing. I've worked with C and Windows for > 14 years, and have a bit of Linux experience. I'm fine with CVS etc, too.

Particularly interesting for me, after the bitstream is sorted, is to sort out a proper musepack port in XBMP (specifically, ripping straight to CD.) We need to get the bsaics done first, though.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: ChristianHJW on 2004-02-22 23:06:49
Quote
I'm happy to do some C coding, ABXing and testing. I've worked with C and Windows for > 14 years, and have a bit of Linux experience. I'm fine with CVS etc, too.

Particularly interesting for me, after the bitstream is sorted, is to sort out a proper musepack port in XBMP (specifically, ripping straight to CD.) We need to get the bsaics done first, though.

mate, get an account on corecodec.org and pass me your nick via PM, so i can add you to the project and give you CVS access. We may need a new winamp plugin developer, depending on Case. Last i checked his homepage he was stating that he lost interest  ....
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: CiTay on 2004-02-23 00:14:19
Quote
mate, get an account on corecodec.org and pass me your nick via PM, so i can add you to the project and give you CVS access. We may need a new winamp plugin developer, depending on Case. Last i checked his homepage he was stating that he lost interest  ....

What, i thought he already said to Frank that he will continue with it?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: p0l1m0rph1c on 2004-02-23 00:26:08
Welcome back Frank 

I'm no great coder, only know some basic assembly, and some C coding.
Anyway, I'd be very happy to test any new alpha encoder/decoder/plugin that need to be tested.  Or even help in any other thing i can do.

I like Musepack a lot, and i'd like to help it's development
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: ChristianHJW on 2004-02-23 06:40:22
Quote
What, i thought he already said to Frank that he will continue with it?

Nobody told me ..... glad to hear that
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Gecko on 2004-02-23 12:24:51
The only thing I can give is my time and ears.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: music_man_mpc on 2004-02-23 15:26:41
Quote
The only thing I can give is my time and ears.

The same goes for me, as well.  I would gladly lend them both .
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: seanyseansean on 2004-02-23 15:28:53
Quote
Quote
mate, get an account on corecodec.org and pass me your nick via PM, so i can add you to the project and give you CVS access. We may need a new winamp plugin developer, depending on Case. Last i checked his homepage he was stating that he lost interest  ....

What, i thought he already said to Frank that he will continue with it?

I'd obviously rather that case continued the work, but am still willing to do any other stuff needed.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: ChristianHJW on 2004-02-23 20:57:07
Quote
I'd obviously rather that case continued the work, but am still willing to do any other stuff needed.

Welcome in the official dev team seanyseansean, you have CVS access now  ....
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Frank Klemm on 2004-02-24 10:41:03
Quote
Quote
I'd obviously rather that case continued the work, but am still willing to do any other stuff needed.

Welcome in the official dev team seanyseansean, you have CVS access now  ....

Some remarks concerning XMMS-Plugin and XMMS:

Actually I dislike XMMS, because
- it is bug-compatible with WinAMP, it has exactly the same flaws as WinAMP
- Most of the functions I need are missing (one of many examples: Play selected: Click on first title to play, Press and hold Shift, click on last title, release shift, Execute 'play selected')
- All proposals of adding functionality is blocked by 'This make the interface incompatble with the available skins'

Sorry, but when skins are more important than functionality, then XMMS is
dead as a dronte.

Why I use XMMS:
- It's the only GUI program I know
- It make usage of the equalizer, which I use for headphone playback

Why the plugin should be finished:
- It's nearly finished
- It's the only program which plays mpc files on Linux (except mppdec)

Any remarks? Any proposals? Any refuses?

@CHJW: Can you send this article also the the ML?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: QuantumKnot on 2004-02-24 10:47:25
I agree with Frank's opinion of XMMS.  I don't like it much either.

btw.  Does Foobar2000 work under Wine?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: RIV@NVX on 2004-02-24 10:58:01
Quote
btw.  Does Foobar2000 work under Wine?

Yes, and quite usable actually.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: ChristianHJW on 2004-02-25 00:54:39
Quote
Quote
btw.  Does Foobar2000 work under Wine?

Yes, and quite usable actually.

Funny, i was talking to Frank about this on the phone just a couple of hours ago, and was asking him if it actually made sense to invest time into a XMMS plugin at all, if fb2k could work on WINE. I hope he reads that .....
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: xmixahlx on 2004-02-25 03:49:43
of course a native plugin makes sense.

it also makes sense to split the decoding/encoding into a library and keep the frontend executables so other software can benefit from musepack.

...foobar + wine is not a solution. not all features/functionality work

porting foobar (or perhaps coding it cross-platform in the first place, lol) would be better solutions.  there are many options. i'd assume the developers are familiar with them.


later
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: xmixahlx on 2004-02-25 03:59:52
Quote
Why I use XMMS:
- It's the only GUI program I know
- It make usage of the equalizer, which I use for headphone playback

Why the plugin should be finished:
- It's nearly finished
- It's the only program which plays mpc files on Linux (except mppdec)

Any remarks? Any proposals? Any refuses?

@CHJW: Can you send this article also the the ML?

some updates since you've been away, frank

more software that plays mpc on linux:
lamip & beep-media-player (xmms gtk2 port)

(ciberfred essentially borrowed xmms-musepack plugin code for lamip and it is very primitive)
(lamip is also a non-gui audio interface)

why i use xmms:
it supports the most formats under linux
i.e. one-stop shopping

why musepack should be supported fully on linux:
because it already is! why ditch something that is so easy to continue?
native support is worth far more than emulated support

my .01


later
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Mr_Rabid_Teddybear on 2004-02-25 04:09:44
Linux really needs a better audioplayer than xmms, in the long run that's the only good solution I think....
But basing anything upon something that has to be run under Wine is.... dodgy at best, I think.... Some, it seems at postings here at HA, have made this work somehow, but I think it depends on distros and other factors how sucessful this might be.... and anyways it will neither be a simple/practical nor popular solution among common *nix users.
As long as the xmms plugin is the best there is for Linux (until a better solution comes along), it shouldn't just be tossed away....
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: j8ee on 2004-02-25 05:10:10
There are some bugfixes to the xmms plugin at gentoo.org, check the cvs for patches.

Foobar is quite useful in wine, but unfortunately I can't get encoding/transcoding to work. Has something to do with how the paths are used I guess. Ogg .dll encoding works, but nothing else that I tried. And I don't think there will be a port of foobar in a very long time, Peter P's focus is set on creating the best _windows_ player there is, as simple as that.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: phong on 2004-02-25 05:37:31
Mplayer also plays mpc under linux (uses XMMS plugins I guess).  Not that it's a useful audio player (it does have the advantage of playing EVERYTHING)...  Also, as much as I dislike XMMS myself, it's what we've got.  I agree that emulation isn't a substitue.  Also, isn't there going to be XMMS 2 some day?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: userXYZ on 2004-02-25 18:04:20
Quote
Any remarks? Any proposals? Any refuses?

How about creating a Musepack-Plugin for the gstreamer framework? gstreamer will become a part of GNOME and IIRC will be integrated into KDE in the future too.


Quote
Sorry, but when skins are more important than functionality, then XMMS is
dead as a dronte.


Maybe the developer(s) of beep media player are willing to implement your idea for "play selected"?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: ChristianHJW on 2004-02-25 21:28:29
Quote
Quote
Any remarks? Any proposals? Any refuses?

How about creating a Musepack-Plugin for the gstreamer framework? gstreamer will become a part of GNOME and IIRC will be integrated into KDE in the future too.

I second that

BTW, Gstreamer IS a part of GNOME ....
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: userXYZ on 2004-02-26 09:25:11
Quote
BTW, Gstreamer IS a part of GNOME ....


Are you sure? I thought It wouldn't make it into GNOME 2.6 due to it's development stage, the developers would need to make a feature freeze etc. Aside from that, one can of course already use it, e.g. on Debian Sarge with GNOME 2.4 I use it with Rhythmbox.

Regards, David
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: seanyseansean on 2004-02-26 10:15:30
Quote
Linux really needs a better audioplayer than xmms, in the long run that's the only good solution I think....
But basing anything upon something that has to be run under Wine is.... dodgy at best, I think.... Some, it seems at postings here at HA, have made this work somehow, but I think it depends on distros and other factors how sucessful this might be.... and anyways it will neither be a simple/practical nor popular solution among common *nix users.
As long as the xmms plugin is the best there is for Linux (until a better solution comes along), it shouldn't just be tossed away....

At my workplace we design and build Linux based embedded devices to control displays in bookmakers shops (up to 32 screens at once). We also allow mpeg video playback and the biggest pains in my arse while doing this (i'm no Linux expert) are

a> video acceleration under X

b> audio APIs. They seem uniformly awful. Please, somebody, tell me i'm wrong. What is considered to be the best audio API on Linux? How does it compare to DirectSound?

Poor quality sound support in Linux is preventing me moving to the platform. Maybe someone needs to provoke ZzZzZz into porting the Foobar core

btw Christian - i'm free in a week or so (i'm on the road at the moment, Remote Desktopping into my home machine) - is there any chance of getting a list of developers / testers / tasks soon?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: userXYZ on 2004-02-26 15:12:52
Quote
Poor quality sound support in Linux is preventing me moving to the platform.


Do you mean the sound output is poor quality or do you mean the audio applications (players etc.) are poor quality? I'm just asking because I don't get the meaning straight from reading, language barrier propably 
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: seanyseansean on 2004-02-26 15:55:09
Quote
Quote
Poor quality sound support in Linux is preventing me moving to the platform.


Do you mean the sound output is poor quality or do you mean the audio applications (players etc.) are poor quality? I'm just asking because I don't get the meaning straight from reading, language barrier propably 

I mean the API (programmer interfaces) seem quite archaic compared to Windows, as is driver support. I'd imagine the sound coming out would be pretty similar.

The applications are as bad too, but this might be a symptom of the above.

It's a shame - these are basic things that should be sorted if Linux is ever likely to be mainstream on the desktop.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: caligae on 2004-02-26 20:28:02
Quote
How about creating a Musepack-Plugin for the gstreamer framework?

Much more important would be a libmpc that provides an easy to use interface for at least decoding mpc.

There's no use in reinventing the wheel for every audio player that wants to support mpc. Once there is such a library developing individual plugins for certain players will be much less pain.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Frank Klemm on 2004-02-29 14:27:27
- Proposal for Menues in XMMS/WinAMP
- Can also be used as a hint for other audio players
- "Play selected" is only a very small part of this


Code: [Select]
Useful Modifications for WinAMP (Windows) / Xmms (X11 Unix based)
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Additional options
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Auto play on startup
- Convert %XY to character with ISO8859-1/ISO 646 code XY.
- Support of characters 0xA0...0xFF


Remarks:
- Autoplay on Start
   When this option is set Xmms starts with playing the current playlist
   when you start WinAMP. This is useful for automatic playback. You don't
   need to push any button.

- Convert %XY to character with ISO8859-1/ISO 646 code XY
   There are Characters which can't be encoded in file names, these are at
   least ", / and \. A form to encode such chars is to escape it by a
   character + encode it by its value in the ISO 8859-1 table.

- Support of characters 0xA0...0xFF
   Current WinAMP can't display characters like ä, ö, ü and ß,
   which are used in the German language. This should be changed.
   Also other languages like French, Spain are using characters which
   are unknown in the English language.



Special Files for Playback
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The following notations are possible in playlists:

 Nop()                 Dummy

 Stop()                Infinite Pause, can be terminated by pressing Play or Pause

 Pause(x)              Wait for x seconds, can be terminated by pressing Play or Pause
                       Examples: Pause(0.5), Pause(60), Pause(3600)

 filename:x:y          Playback from second x to y of file filename
                       positive values are relative to the start, negative
                       relative to the end. A x of zero is the file start,
                       a y of zero is the file end.

 filename[level]       Level correction of filename by level dB
                       Important when you want to listen to music and bed
                       which fades away.

 filename[level1,level2]
                       Level correction of filename by level1 dB at the
                       start and level2 dB at the end.

 filename:x:y[level]   Partital playback with level correction

 filename:x:y:[level1,level2]
                       Partital playback with level correction



Popup-Menu on the Main Window
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 --+-- Play                            Play starting from the current file, jump to the playlist b
   +-- Play Selection                  Play selected files, jump to the selection list beginning w
   +-- View file info
   |
   +-- Play Files =>                   Play files you choose in a file prompter (leave playlist un
   +-- Play Directory =>               Play files you choose in a directory prompter (leave playli
   +-- Play URL =>                     Play files you choose in an URL prompter (leave playlist un
   |
   +-- Main Windows
   +-- Playlist Editor
   +-- Graphic Equalizer
   |
   +-- Options
   +-- Playback
   +-- Visualization
   .
   +-- About XMMS/WinAMP
   \-- Exit



Popup-Menu on the Playlist Editor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 --+--View file info
   |
   +--Add-----+-- Files at top =>
   |          +-- Files at current position =>
   |          +-- Files at end =>
   |          |
   |          +-- Search for new files and add at top
   |          +-- Search for new files and add at current position
   |          +-- Search for new files and add at end
   |          |
   |          +-- Directory at top =>
   |          +-- Directory at current position =>
   |          +-- Directory at end =>
   |          |
   |          +-- URL at top =>
   |          +-- URL at current position =>
   |          +-- URL at end =>
   |          |
   |          +-- Stop
   |          +-- Pause =>                     Prompt for duration in sec, min:sec or hour:min:sec
   |          \-- Jump label =>                Prompt for current number of jump target
   |
   +-Remove---+-- Remove Selected files from Playlist
   |          +-- Crop unselected files from Playlist
   |          +-- Remove All files from Playlist
   |          |
   |          +-- Remove dead files from Playlist
   |          +-- Remove dublicate files from Playlist
   |          |
   |          \-- Physical Remove --+-- Destroy current file physically
   |                                \-- Destroy selected file(s) physically
   |
   +--Selection--+-- Select All
   |             +-- Unselect All
   |             \-- Invert Selection
   |
   +--Sort---+--Sort List----+-- By Title
   |         |               +-- By Artist
   |         |               +-- By Album
   |         |               +-- By Year
   |         |               |
   |         |               +-- By Filename
   |         |               +-- By last Dir and Filename
   |         |               +-- By last 2 Dirs and Filename
   |         |               \-- By whole Path and Filename
   |         |
   |         +--Sort Selection--+-- By Title
   |         |                  +-- By Artist
   |         |                  +-- By Album
   |         |                  +-- By Year
   |         |                  |
   |         |                  +-- By Filename
   |         |                  +-- By last Dir and Filename
   |         |                  +-- By last 2 Dirs and Filename
   |         |                  \-- By whole Path and Filename
   |         |
   |         +-- Randomize List
   |         +-- Randomize Selection
   |         |
   |         +-- Invert List
   |         \-- Invert Selection
   |
   \--Playlist--+-- Save current Playlist =>
                +-- Save Selection as Playlist =>
                +-- Save Selection as Playlist + Remove from current Playlist =>
                |
                +-- Replace Playlist =>
                +-- Insert Files from Playlist at top =>
                +-- Insert Files from Playlist at current position =>
                +-- Insert Files from Playlist at end =>
                |
                +-- Recent Playlist #1 ...
                +-- Recent Playlist #2 ...
                +-- Recent Playlist #3 ...
                +-- Recent Playlist #4 ...
                +-- Recent Playlist #5 ...
                +-- Recent Playlist #6 ...
                +-- Recent Playlist #7 ...
                +-- Recent Playlist #8 ...
                +-- Recent Playlist #9 ...
                |
                \-- New Playlist =>                      Prompt for new playlist name


When a playlist is saved and the playlist exists, the following can be choosen:

 -- Append at end
 -- Prepend at beginning
 -- Overwrite
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Benjamin Lebsanft on 2004-02-29 14:48:17
Using wine and foobar on Fedora Core 1 doesn't work useable, the playlist doesn't "refresh", you can see menu entries etc. until you click on a file. the status bar is static, does only update when resizing the window.
All the above applies to latest wine.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: AstralStorm on 2004-02-29 15:49:52
<sigh>

FB2k on Linux (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6600&view=getnewpost) thread.

It works fine, just read up there. The 'bug' you're mentioning is easy to workaround.

Anyway, thank you Frank for your work. I can lend my ears to that - these aren't as good as guruboolez's ones,
but will still be useful.

As to the GStreamer suggestion, it would be better to create Xine plugin - it's mature already
and API sucks less. Unfortunately I'm afraid I'll be too busy creating some webpages to create a plugin,
but who knows...
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Frank Klemm on 2004-02-29 22:25:55
Don't disturb me today between 23:00 and 0:55 o'clock ;-)
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: fireballuk2001 on 2004-03-01 02:22:08
Quote
Mplayer also plays mpc under linux (uses XMMS plugins I guess).  Not that it's a useful audio player (it does have the advantage of playing EVERYTHING)...  Also, as much as I dislike XMMS myself, it's what we've got.  I agree that emulation isn't a substitue.  Also, isn't there going to be XMMS 2 some day?

Does this mean that we have support for mpc in MPlayer 'Right Now?' Because if we do that means we can use it in XBMC (XBox Media Center) right?... or an i mis-reading something here?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: ChristianHJW on 2004-03-01 08:05:47
Quote
Don't disturb me today between 23:00 and 0:55 o'clock ;-)

Why not  ??? What going to happen then ? /me is curious ......
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: JohnV on 2004-03-01 08:23:47
Quote
Quote
Don't disturb me today between 23:00 and 0:55 o'clock ;-)

Why not  ??? What going to happen then ? /me is curious ......

I think Frank's girl is visiting... 
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: seanyseansean on 2004-03-01 08:34:09
Quote
Quote
Quote
Don't disturb me today between 23:00 and 0:55 o'clock ;-)

Why not  ??? What going to happen then ? /me is curious ......

I think Frank's girl is visiting... 

Don't tell me, she's the one with the knowledge on .mpc eh? 

Fireball: The Xbox can't use mplayers xmms plugins as, among other reasons,  they're not part of the core cvs build.
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: robert on 2004-03-01 09:47:21
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Don't disturb me today between 23:00 and 0:55 o'clock ;-)

Why not  ??? What going to happen then ? /me is curious ......

I think Frank's girl is visiting... 

Don't tell me, she's the one with the knowledge on .mpc eh? 

Fireball: The Xbox can't use mplayers xmms plugins as, among other reasons,  they're not part of the core cvs build.

Ok, I give you a hint:

look at Frank's avatar
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: seanyseansean on 2004-03-01 10:26:26
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Don't disturb me today between 23:00 and 0:55 o'clock ;-)

Why not  ??? What going to happen then ? /me is curious ......

I think Frank's girl is visiting... 

Don't tell me, she's the one with the knowledge on .mpc eh? 

Fireball: The Xbox can't use mplayers xmms plugins as, among other reasons,  they're not part of the core cvs build.

Ok, I give you a hint:

look at Frank's avatar

... you reckon he's taken up painting while his girl works on musepack?
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Gecko on 2004-03-01 12:48:21
Quote
Ok, I give you a hint:

look at Frank's avatar

OT: It's a picture from the movie "Le Fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain". Amélie is kneeling on a bridge jumping rocks over the water. (Hope this link works (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0211915/Ss/0211915/s_1105_29.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0211915))
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: xmixahlx on 2004-03-01 23:17:25
the speculation runs wild!

so is frank dating audrey tautou?


Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: Mr_Rabid_Teddybear on 2004-03-01 23:33:55
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"Le Fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain"

One of the 10 best "feelgood" movies ever!!!
   
Title: Thank You Very Much ...
Post by: AgentMil on 2004-03-02 15:37:04
Nice to see your back posting on the board now Frank...

I have been away on holidays so I haven't kept up with the news... no Internet for a week as well. Global Roaming Rates for mobile phones are really really expensive as well FYI

Enjoy working on MPC once again... if you need any help I am sure there are plenty of takers here on HA.org

Regards

AgentMil
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