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Hosted Forums => foobar2000 => Support - (fb2k) => Topic started by: Caleb on 2008-06-02 17:28:06

Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-06-02 17:28:06
I'm not sure if I recall this correctly or not, but I think that v0.9.5.2 did not add items that do not exist to the Media Library when you would add, for example, an .m3u file that points to mp3s that aren't there, or CUE files that point to WAVs that don't actually exist, but v0.9.5.3 is doing it

Is there a way to make foobar ignore invalid links?

Thanks!
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-06-03 18:20:47
Can anyone atleast confirm whether this is some kind of a regression or not?
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: foosion on 2008-06-04 09:21:52
When foobar2000 loads a playlist, it does not verify whether any of the entries exists. It has been like that for as long as I can remember.

Cue sheets are handled differently from playlists in foobar2000. For foobar2000, a cue sheet is a container with multiple tracks. That it requires an external file to play those tracks is just an implementation detail.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-06-04 18:45:04
Hi foosion,

Thank you for the reply.

Here's a screenshot of what I'm talking about:
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1221/foobarzr6.th.jpg) (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=foobarzr6.jpg)

Notice that in the Facets library, the album only shows 4 tracks, I've even clicked "Remove dead entries" on it to make sure. But when I double click the album, non-working entries from 2 .cue files are added aswell.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: ~*McoreD*~ on 2008-06-05 10:34:18
I would like to see this happening as well.

CUE files are added to my foobar2000 library when CUE files are in the music folder. The CUE files point to WAV files which I don't have.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-06-09 12:19:31
When foobar2000 loads a playlist, it does not verify whether any of the entries exists. It has been like that for as long as I can remember.

Cue sheets are handled differently from playlists in foobar2000. For foobar2000, a cue sheet is a container with multiple tracks. That it requires an external file to play those tracks is just an implementation detail.


Hey foosion,

This really is a regression, because I've been using foobar FOR AGES and I never had this happen to me until 0.9.5.3.

I have just installed 0.9.5.2 with a clear media library and tried adding a folder that has flacs and .cues in it, and it added ONLY the flacs, without the non-working links (that were in the CUEs or M3Us that were in the folder).

Then I've reinstalled 0.9.5.3 and tried adding that folder again, and it added the redundunat non-working links.

This is driving me crazy because 99% of my albums have CUEs and it suddenly started doing this.

Do you need anything else from me to reproduce this problem? It's really bugging me

Thanks!
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-06-09 12:40:27
Note that in 0.9.5.2, if there is a CUE file in the same folder as the FLACs and it points to the filenames properly and the CUE has different tags than the FLAC files, then foobar would just show the same albums with the different tags (duplication), in that case all I did was to move the CUE to a subfolder, and then everything would be alright because the CUE would reference nonexisting files.

In 0.9.5.3 even if the CUE points to nonexisting files in the first place (CUE points to WAVs instead of FLACs), foobar still shows it in the playlist and adds it to the media library.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Peter on 2008-06-11 09:25:46
This change is intended - being unable to list cuesheet tracks when referenced files didn't exist was a bug and it got fixed. It's not my problem that you keep nonplayable files in your music folders.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-06-11 16:26:50
This change is intended - being unable to list cuesheet tracks when referenced files didn't exist was a bug and it got fixed. It's not my problem that you keep nonplayable files in your music folders.


Thanks for letting me know, it wasn't in the changelog so...

Actually, the CUE sheets serve as disc images for my rips (that's how I back them up) so that I could get a 1:1 copy out of the files on the computer. And I have quite alot of them (pretty much for every album I ripped with EAC).

Peter, is there any chance that you might add an advanced toggle to enable the "old" behaviour. As you can see not only I would like this.
This would really really help me, as I cannot just dump all these CUEs since I need them. Otherwise I'm just stuck with 0.9.5.2 for life

Thanks!
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Zoom on 2008-06-11 17:19:11
Then I've reinstalled 0.9.5.3 and tried adding that folder again, and it added the redundunat non-working links.

Couldn't you just add an exclusion for .cue files in: Preferences>General>Adding new files>Exclude file types

I'm not sure if that would solve your problem, but this should prevent CUE files from loading. I could be wrong though as I don't use CUE files.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-06-12 15:00:27

Then I've reinstalled 0.9.5.3 and tried adding that folder again, and it added the redundunat non-working links.

Couldn't you just add an exclusion for .cue files in: Preferences>General>Adding new files>Exclude file types

I'm not sure if that would solve your problem, but this should prevent CUE files from loading. I could be wrong though as I don't use CUE files.


I know that I can do that, but I do have some valid CUE files that do point to files that work.
If no backwards-compatible feature will be added in future version, I guess I'll just stick to 0.9.5.2
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Woodenhead on 2008-06-15 22:27:17
I just ran into this same issue, and I can't say I'm happy about it. A few of my .cues point to valid links; however, most of them don't. The exclusions don't do the trick, either. This really sucks for me & my ~20,000 track library, which I just meticulously re-tagged...
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: DotNoir on 2008-06-15 23:17:17
Why do you people have an inconsistent ripping style? For some albums you include cue-files which point to wavs and then you encode your files to some other format, but for some rips you edit the cues to point to the encoded files? Huh?

I've never had such problems, since if I rip "file per track" I don't need the cue sheet for anything and if I rip to a single image file I embed the cue at command line in EAC already and don't need to put the cue sheet in my media library.

If there's something or someone doing something wrong it's the user in this case.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-06-17 17:51:24
Why do you people have an inconsistent ripping style? For some albums you include cue-files which point to wavs and then you encode your files to some other format, but for some rips you edit the cues to point to the encoded files? Huh?

I've never had such problems, since if I rip "file per track" I don't need the cue sheet for anything and if I rip to a single image file I embed the cue at command line in EAC already and don't need to put the cue sheet in my media library.

If there's something or someone doing something wrong it's the user in this case.


I don't need the CUEs for playback... I keep them as backup If I ever have to burn a perfect image.
I don't want to embed anything in the music files other than the tags, and I'm not doing anything wrong, and it's not only me, I know hundreds of others that do the same.

And I bet that when more and more people upgrade to this version there will be complaints and "bug reports". Ideally maybe this is the right thing to do (display invalid links in the playlist and the media library), but practically it just sucks.

Has this really been bothering ANYBODY? Has anyone really begged to see non-working links in the playlist? I doubt it.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: shakey_snake on 2008-06-17 18:00:34
I don't need the CUEs for playback...

Then add *.CUE to the excluded filetypes in Preferences->Media Library.
End of problem.

... I keep them as backup If I ever have to burn a perfect image.

What good is this if some of the tracks are missing? 
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Maycito on 2008-08-03 08:02:03
Same issue here. 

You should understand foobar has been behaving this way from the start, a few years ago, and since then we've been collecting tons of albums. I'm not gonna delete all the wrong cues one by one looking for then in hundred of folders, no way. And excluding *.cue archives is no solution, as I use them as playlist, so I got "restrict to *.cue" in my rescan media library.

I don't think it would be difficult to just add an option to fix this, but until then I'll get back to 0.9.5.2

Please, fix it.

Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: shakey_snake on 2008-08-03 12:46:12
Cuesheets are not playlists.

Trying to use them as such is only going to cause you more and more headaches.
Therefore, you need to correct your usage patterns.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-08-04 19:57:46
Cuesheets are not playlists.

Trying to use them as such is only going to cause you more and more headaches.
Therefore, you need to correct your usage patterns.


Yes they are. If you have one big file then .CUE is the only meaningful way of playing it back.

People have different usage patterns. For example, I have lots of albums where the .CUE is left there as a way to burn a pefect image of the CD (the CUE just points to the WAV files - which were converted to flacs). I also have a few albums where the CUE is actually needed since I have just one big file, so it points to the right file.

Dragging a folder with CUE files that don't point to the flacs (for me, the majority) results in a complete mess.

The solution of adding the CUE files to the exclude list does not fix this, what it does fix is adding the invalid links to the Media Library. But then it also removes the legitimate CUE links as well.

I don't understand why something that's not broken was "fixed".
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Mathieu Debove on 2008-08-04 23:59:40
I don't need the CUEs for playback... I keep them as backup If I ever have to burn a perfect image.
I don't want to embed anything in the music files other than the tags, and I'm not doing anything wrong, and it's not only me, I know hundreds of others that do the same.


Well, as far as I know embedded CUEs are just tags (ie a big tag with the file content in it) but they're hidden in foobar2000, so either you embed your CUEs, either you admit that CUEs are NOT playlists (because they're not) and you change your ripping habits!
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: shakey_snake on 2008-08-05 04:58:33
Yes they are.
They are similar looking, but they are fundamentally different. Cuesheets were made to divide a large file into smaller individually playable pieces, playlists are created to create a single large playable item from many individual files.

If you refuse to comprehend the difference, then you can thoroughly assume that you will never understand Peter's decision.



(for me, the majority)
lol.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Maycito on 2008-08-06 14:00:32
Ok, then. You say I should change my "Rippin' habits"?. I think you don't know what you'r talking about (  ). It's been too many years rippin' & sharing lossless music, and one big .ape or .flac file with a .cue is the best way ever.

The reason why I, and so many other people, started using foobar was that precisely: it could play .cue files without conversions. Foobar didn't care about "wrong" cues,and so neither did I. Please, don't pretend that we all change our habits now, because that's something that just will not happen.

I still think it has to be really easy to "fix" that. It's not a matter of who's right or wrong, it's just that foobar is "OUR" music player, not just Peter's, and that should be respected.

Please, fix it.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: kanak on 2008-08-06 15:37:16
It's been too many years rippin' & sharing lossless music, and one big .ape or .flac file with a .cue is the best way ever.


Ah now it is clear why this is a problem. It is very unlikely that the development team will revert their decision solely to please those who are sharing files.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: carpman on 2008-08-06 21:16:59
it's just that foobar is "OUR" music player, not just Peter's, and that should be respected.

I find it rather cowardly to use a conveniently constructed mass of people (foobar is "OUR" music player) who are, I assume, an army of YOU.
I guess you'd rather say "foobar is "OUR" music player", because the honest alternative is rather more transparently conceited: "foobar is "MY" music player" ... and you, Peter, should make it like I want it. 

Imagine saying the same thing to the artists' whose music you listen to, say for example, you don't like some of the lyrics in "Don't Tell Me" by Madonna, so you write to her and say:
"it's just that the song "Don't Tell Me" is "OUR" song, not just yours, and my wish for you to change it should be respected"

Hmmm.

C.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Morfeus on 2008-08-06 21:54:10
carpman: I think Peter is developing foobar not for himself, but for "US" foobar's users (because foobar is "FREE"). So he should listen to demands of "HIS" users. In this case, I think Peter should just add option for this.

Madonna (and other artists) sing, write songs because of profit…
You're comparing something that is NOT comparable
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: TREX6662k6 on 2008-08-06 21:58:38
Quote
Yes they are. If you have one big file then .CUE is the only meaningful way of playing it back.


.APL's? or even embedded cue sheets?

Or add another extension to the end of your non-working cue files then exclude them?

*.cue.nul ?
---
Its just laziness.
Some people just want other people to work around their problem rather than fixing it themselves.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: kanak on 2008-08-06 22:11:16
*.cue.nul ?


You see, none of these methods are applicable because "touching" these files in anyway will cause the bittorrent client to presume these files have been tampered with and thus prevent its seeding.

Asking for a regression is bad enough, asking for a regression solely for purposes like this is foolilsh.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: TREX6662k6 on 2008-08-06 22:25:30
But if your not continuously seeding it then its not a problem (as long as you revert it back when your are seeding) because bittorrent generates its SHA1 hash on the entire torrents contents

Or 2. Spread your seeds in another folder.

3. Hardlinking or symlinks.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Morfeus on 2008-08-06 23:28:18
3. Hardlinking or symlinks.


Can you tell me 1 piece of working software in Windows (XP, Vista or any other) which has user-friendly manipulation with hard/symlinks? I guess no, because hard/symlinking is generally thing done in Unix/Linux systems. I agree that there's support for hard/symlinks but I guess only in Vista (or XP, but very limited).
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Maycito on 2008-08-07 08:13:10
Bittorrent? WTF are you talking about.   
I really don't understand why should I use foobar in the same way you do, just because you think it's wrong to use it as I've been doing it. It takes nothing to "fix" it, but you won't because I'm wrong. ?

Lol. I got 9.5.2 , it's ok for me.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: cmdrpaddy on 2008-08-07 15:35:34
Bittorrent? WTF are you talking about.   
I really don't understand why should I use foobar in the same way you do, just because you think it's wrong to use it as I've been doing it. It takes nothing to "fix" it, but you won't because I'm wrong. ?

Lol. I got 9.5.2 , it's ok for me.


Well the developer has told you that the "feature" you want is actually a bug that has been fixed so for all intents and purposes you are wrong and won't get what you want.

I don't really see what the point of having cue files that point to files that don't exist especially when you can use foobar's converter to create an album image with a cue sheet.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: DocBeard on 2008-08-07 17:32:30
Whatever you think, or I think, or anyone else thinks, Peter's made it abundantly (and at times frustratingly) clear that he's got a pretty specific vision for Foobar2000, a vision that not everyone who uses the program shares.  It is not, like it or not, 'our' program, and all the railing about how he *should* be designing it according to 'our' whims (if you believe this to be the case; I do not) isn't going to make it so. Free or not, it doesn't matter. We're his audience, not his collaborators.

Now obviously, if he and the other developers weren't receptive to the wants and needs of that audience, the program wouldn't be as good as it is, and it wouldn't have evolved over the years to meet our needs, and it certainly wouldn't be as extensible and customizable as it is. And obviously it's frustrating when his vision for the program makes something that used to work no longer viable (see also every cwb_hooks and Panels UI discussion ever, as well as every discussion of why system date and time aren't available within the program).

And, you know, there are things I wish had been developed differently too. And there are issues I wish had been addressed differently by Peter and others. (See also every Panels UI discussion ever.) And we should absolutely ask for, and indeed put forth reasonable arguments for, new features or changes we'd like to see. But making demands? Never mind whether we have any right to do it, demands and arguments of 'CODE TO MY WHIMS, DEVELOPER-SLAVE' are simply not going to get the results we want. And sometimes we're just plain not going to get the results we want at all. Our choices there are to accept the program as it is or choose not to use the program (or the latest version of the program). Or, y'know, whine about it on the internet.

Now, as for the specific issue *here*? I'll admit I don't really get it, but I only use cue sheets for as long as it takes me to split a big huge file into individual pieces using the converter. But if it's a file-sharing issue that precludes you from changing the files involved in any way, why not just copy the files elsewhere on your system, put the *copies* in your music library and alter those copies to your heart's content? Sure, you end up using more disk space that way, but such is life.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Morfeus on 2008-08-07 17:47:45
I have to agree with majority of what DocBeard wrote. Developers (especially ones who write free/opensource software) have it really tough when it comes to situation like this (or any other). I think this topic should be locked, because we know Peter's opinion on this, we know that Maycito will stay with older version, and that's the end.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Yirkha on 2008-08-07 18:58:06
Anyone concerned can also trivially make a component which removes all tracks with non-existing REFERENCED_FILEs on playlist_callback::on_items_added event.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: TREX6662k6 on 2008-08-17 12:19:53

3. Hardlinking or symlinks.


Can you tell me 1 piece of working software in Windows (XP, Vista or any other) which has user-friendly manipulation with hard/symlinks? I guess no, because hard/symlinking is generally thing done in Unix/Linux systems. I agree that there's support for hard/symlinks but I guess only in Vista (or XP, but very limited).



You guess? Theres plenty out there if you just Google.

I use "Link Shell Extension" and its bloody awesome.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Zotopenco on 2008-08-24 18:54:39
This change is intended - being unable to list cuesheet tracks when referenced files didn't exist was a bug and it got fixed.


For me is not a bug, is a big advantage.

Mistakes are hiding.

I've reinstalled 0.9.5.2.

Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Chaotic on 2008-08-24 20:18:18
If you're trying to say that the old behavior was better because you could see which cue sheets aren't properly configurated I should warn you that that's still possible.

Entries from a cue sheets that point to a wrong file will have a question mark in the duration column instead of the actual song length.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Woodenhead on 2008-09-16 07:47:27
Well, since this issue isn't going anywhere, I just used a little app called Extension renamer (http://www.brothersoft.com/extension-renamer-download-41537.html) to change everything in my library from .cue to .cuex. Problem solved.

& yes, it is indeed a problem. Just not for everybody. Hopefully I'll find the time to integrate an option into foobar itself. I'm thinking of just adding an "Ignore .cue files" checkbox, or something along that line. Too much to do for now, though.

Thanx for the "fix"   
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-09-18 18:52:28
Anyone concerned can also trivially make a component which removes all tracks with non-existing REFERENCED_FILEs on playlist_callback::on_items_added event.


This suggestion does seem very nice indeed. Unfortunately, the documentation seems pretty slim and I don't really have enough time to play around with the SDK.

Maybe if someone who has no problem making plugins could create a very small plugin for this and publish the source.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Zao on 2008-09-18 19:30:04
If only there were an "edit box" in the "Media Library" "preferences" where you could "Exclude:" "File Types".
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: yandexx on 2008-09-18 19:31:33
Zao: massive
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-09-19 11:29:57
If only there were an "edit box" in the "Media Library" "preferences" where you could "Exclude:" "File Types".


That has already been covered. This only excludes the files being added to the media library, but if you drop a folder into foobar, the playlist still shows the invalid references.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: shakey_snake on 2008-09-19 15:19:39
If only there were an "edit box" in the "Media Library" "preferences" where you could "Exclude:" "File Types".

lol.

Yeah foobar provides about a million possible ways to resolve this, but none of the solutions satisfy these "people".
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Caleb on 2008-09-20 19:09:16

If only there were an "edit box" in the "Media Library" "preferences" where you could "Exclude:" "File Types".

lol.

Yeah foobar provides about a million possible ways to resolve this, but none of the solutions satisfy these "people".


There's no solution in foobar that resolve this completely, so keep your condescending tone to yourself please.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: shakey_snake on 2008-09-20 20:11:10
Here, I'll make a list.

Possible, complete solutions:
1.
Don't use cuesheets at all. Cuesheets were originally intended to be used with CDs that were ripped as one continuous file. If you've ripped each track as an individual file, then you have little need for cuesheets. Very,very little if you've ripped to a natively gapless format like  (but not limited to) FLAC, ogg Vorbis or LAME mp3.

2. Convert you cuesheets to playlists. I have no idea what the goals of some of you guys are with your cuesheets (you've been  very unclear on that thusfar), but if you are essentially using them as playlists, then you should use a more capable file format for that, like an actual playlist.

3a. Exclude cuesheets from being added to foobar's media library, as Zao has suggested. Simple, easy, practical.

3b. If you have a random assortment of CDs ripped per track and CDs ripped per disk, embed the necessary cuesheets into your "per disk rips" and then  exclude .cues from the media library.

4. Put your offending cuesheets in a separate directory that isn't scanned by the media library. Sure I can here the objection already: "but i like to keep my files together..." Well, if that were the case, WTF are you doing with cuesheet entries that point to missing files to begin with?

5. Find someone with some C++ experience to develop you a component.

6. Find a different audioplayer that has developers that cave into the demands of the whiny users. Good luck on it being as excellent as foobar2000 in any other regard: whiny users tend to suck at figuring out the best way to solve problems. This is especially bad when done via democratic process.
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Woodenhead on 2008-09-23 04:35:23
I use 'em for burning. It takes no time at all to re-convert my .flacs to .wavs, double-click the .cue to open EAC, and burn a perfect copy. But that's besides the point. It's really a minor issue. No need to get all worked up & whine, or, conversely, whine about whiners. Besides, I see "devs cave into the demands of whiners" all the time - they're called "plugins" (just havin' some fun there; sorry, I had to - don't get too worked up) 

For some reason, 3a didn't work for me. I probably screwed something up, though. 5 is a nice solution otherwise. 6... I already dealt with that.

Thanks for explaining the reason for the bugfix. I guess my music archiving habits are backwards to most. But hey, that's how I roll. :]   

Cheers!

[Edit] It seems the latest version works much better in this regard - thanks!  :]
Title: Media Library and non-existent files
Post by: Woodenhead on 2009-09-03 00:24:21
Excuse the bump, but for any of you who may still be frustrated with this, you can try http://wintense.com/plugins/foo_cuefilter (http://wintense.com/plugins/foo_cuefilter) - works fine.

Sorry it took me so long to post about this little plugin. :]
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