HydrogenAudio

Hydrogenaudio Forum => Site Related Discussion => Topic started by: DigitalMan on 2003-01-21 23:00:17

Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: DigitalMan on 2003-01-21 23:00:17
Just curious - who pays to maintain this site?  I see there are no ads, which is fantastic, so who pays for the hosting, software licenses, etc?

>>Edit: should read "who pays...<<
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: john33 on 2003-01-22 00:02:30
Quote
Just curious - who pays to maintain this site?  I see there are no ads, which is fantastic, so who pays for the hosting, software licenses, etc?

>>Edit: should read "who pays...<<

IIRC, it's Dibrom!!
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: LordofStars on 2003-01-22 00:52:46
quite expensive as well... We need a "donate" link.
I would be glad to help.

Check out these sites for examples www.kurafire.com www.tournament.com

I'm glad dibrom takes his time and money for this great community. He has my thanks.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: indybrett on 2003-01-22 01:55:34
I could pony up a few bucks if it were easy. Paypal works for me.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: sphoid on 2003-01-22 15:20:06
I am surprised this issue has not been raised. Dibrom was concerned about this back when i was an admin and there was talk about using paypal and voluntary monthly subscriptions. I know there has to quite a bit of overhead to run this site by now as i remember helping dibrom fund the site when it first started up and it wasnt cheap then either. I think this is probably something that probably should be arranged in the very near future if Dibrom doesnt already have plans in the works which wouldnt surprise me either. I think alot of it is probably gonna fall to the community to drive the initiative though so write your local congressman (j/k)  . But seriously, everyone should definately do their part. If you have anything to spare im sure dibrom would gratefully take donations.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Gabriel on 2003-01-22 15:53:43
I might be wrong, but I think that the biggest expense is time and not money.
The messageboard software comes for free, the database (MySql) is free.

The space on the server should be around 100-200MB, that is cheap.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Agent86 on 2003-01-22 16:06:38
The bandwidth could be might expensive though, depending on how much he goes through.

- Agent 86
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Volcano on 2003-01-22 16:24:34
Yeah, I agree with sphoid. It takes a lot to make me pay for something on the net, but I'd do it for this place. I wouldn't mind seeing an ad banner either, but I know there's not much money to be made through advertising.

[One question though, I was wondering about this right from when the site started up - why the hell was that horribly expensive vBulletin forum software used, instead of a free alternative like phpBB or YaBB? (I realise Invision Board is free, but obviously you guys hadn't heard of it back then, otherwise, I suppose, it would have been used.)]


Agent86, Gabriel: Dibrom said recently that he used 20GB of traffic (hitting the limit). That *must* be bloody expensive.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: JohnV on 2003-01-22 16:35:32
Quote
Agent86, Gabriel: Dibrom said recently that he used 20GB of traffic (hitting the limit). That *must* be bloody expensive.

Actually, since there were big plans, Dibrom is/was actually paying for 100GB bandwidth. The cost is really high..

I just yesterday talked with Dibrom about this, and he doesn't know what to do with the site at the moment, meaning will he continue (obviously the cost can be reduced if the plans are tuned down), or are we going to find another place for the server (there are couple of options atm).

Depends obviously also on his motivation, and other things. He has real life business plans, which could take most of his time and money away from HA.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Gabriel on 2003-01-22 16:53:38
Well, I checked and I used 820MB of traffic yesterday. And to me it's cheap. However I am on collocation server, so I have a slow cpu power. Bandwitdh is not a problem, as I know that I can serve at least 500kB/s without any problem. Drawback is really the cpu.

Perhaps you need to rethink about what kind of hosting you need. In my case, it's really cheap.(35€/year)
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: ff123 on 2003-01-22 17:02:18
I'd also be willing to donate.  If scaling back from 100 GB is an option, hostrocket offers an economy package of 37 GB bandwidth, 750MB storage for $10/mo for 2 years.

ff123
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Gabriel on 2003-01-22 17:24:46
750MB storage?

How much is used here?

For Mp3-tech.org I have 100MB of storage, but it's too small, I think that I will order more. But I do not pay at all for bandwidth.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: DigitalMan on 2003-01-22 19:38:38
So my understanding is that Dibrom supports the forum with his own money.  Much appreciated and I would also be willing to help support the forum if needed.

My only concern is that arrangements are in place to enable the forum to be viable for the long term.  Not knowing Dibrom's situation this may not be an issue or any of my business.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Cygnus X1 on 2003-01-22 20:33:04
Other sites such as vcdhelp.com have PayPal logos on their front page for donations, which I think is a good idea. Ad banners, on the other hand, aren't. Just think, even $1 a month from a handful of people would make a huge difference. Plus, I feel that pitching in is a nice way of showing Dibrom that we appreciate what he has done.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Dibrom on 2003-01-22 21:08:50
Thanks for the offers for donation for everyone that has made them

Right now HA is on a dedicated server and it is this that is what makes the hosting costly more than anything else.  Obviously we have massive amounts of headroom in our storage space and bandwidth allotment, but the decision to go for this was on purpose.  Basically the long term plans for audio-illumination.org (if anyone remembers that) revolved around creating a site for hosting smaller audio project forums and websites, additionally offering CVS services, hosting wikis, and offering mail/news services.  We had also planned to have some sort of "universal" audio FAQ, an audio project directory, and a fairly significant downloads section.  Considering all of this, it would be necessary to have the kind of headroom that we currently have.  The problem though, as JohnV pointed out, is that a couple of big opportunities for business ventures in Real Life have come my way that are too good for me to pass up.  Consequently it no longer makes sense for me to go forward with these plans or to continue to fund the amount of headroom that we currently enjoy as if we might go forward with these plans still at some future date.

During the last few months, HA has used around 15-20GB/month I believe.  This is just for the forum.  The figure is probably a little bit higher when considering the foobar2000 page and forum, and the possible impact it has had.  The database is rather small also, at around 50-60MB, IIRC.  I will have to go through the logs again later to get more accurate current figures.

Ideally, my solution to the current situation would be to setup donation functionality for the site, and to eventually get the entire thing funded solely by this.  I figure that if most of the 100-200 or so most active HA users would donate even a fraction of a dollar each month (something which should be possible for pretty much anyone who can afford an internet connection), it would be more than enough to pay for some decent hosting (scaled back from what we are currently using of course).  This is probably being a bit idealistic though.  However, if even a significant portion of hosting could be covered by this, I wouldn't really have much of an issue with paying for the remaining cost.  I'm sure there are some users on the forum here that would probably donate more than others also, so that could probably help to even things out too.

I guess what I need to do then is go ahead and set all of this up for some sort of trial run.  Right now there is really no "crisis" or anything regarding hosting or funding, I'm simply looking at other options now so that I'm not still in this same position 6 months from now.  I will do my best though to continue funding the site though until a realistic long term solution is found.

Edit:

Something I forgot to mention... What is really more critical than hosting costs right now is that I'm going to need to find someone pretty soon who can replace me and take over my position in the community regarding administrating the forum and handling administration of the server/software.  This doesn't mean I'll be leaving the community entirely or anything, but I'm just not going to be able to dedicate even a fraction of the amount of time and effort to it all compared to what I have in the past.  This means I won't be reading posts/posting/answering emails/responding to private messages nearly as much.. not enough in my mind to be in the position of the lead administrator.  I don't think that most of the current staff would really be able to do this as I don't believe most of them have the time to dedicate to this.  I'm not sure then who could possibly take over.  If someone wants to offer to take this up, I'd be willing to consider it.  Obviously I'd want someone who is rather involved with the community, ideally someone who has been around for awhile, and someone who will be dedicated...
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: SK1 on 2003-01-22 21:32:52
Good luck with your opportunities Dibrom!!
About donation, count me in.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: ssamadhi97 on 2003-01-22 21:36:02
This one time I have to second what SK1 is saying.

(won't ever happen again...  heh, just kidding    )
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: dev0 on 2003-01-22 22:14:45
I'd definetly help in anyway I can (financially and everyting else).

dev0
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: yourtallness on 2003-01-23 06:17:20
How about using sponsors?
Imagine like:

"Hydrogen Audio, sponsored by AudioCatalyst"

or

"Hydrogen Audio, brought to u by Windows Media Technologies"

rofl...             

Seriously, thanks Dibrom. I don't have a credit card (so I guess I can't chip in
through pay-pal) but if u put a banner, I promise I will click on it 20 times on
every visit. 
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: ff123 on 2003-01-23 06:50:30
Looking briefly at what kind of costs Dibrom might be expending for a dedicated 100GB server, the cheapest I found was $325 monthly with a $325 setup.  Some of the price depends on the hardware you lease.  Monthly prices of $600 were not atypical!  That's a lot of money for the average Joe to spend on this stuff.  Obviously, there were/are big plans for Hydrogen Audio.

Dibrom, I know you researched this before you went in, but if you're re-evaluating, you might also consider co-location (providing your own hardware and web server adminstration).

ff123

Of course, if your critical need is your time and not the hosting cost (which you indicated in your post), then this is all moot.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: JohnV on 2003-01-23 07:28:29
Quote
Looking briefly at what kind of costs Dibrom might be expending for a dedicated 100GB server, the cheapest I found was $325 monthly with a $325 setup.  Some of the price depends on the hardware you lease.  Monthly prices of $600 were not atypical!

Well, it's not quite that much, but expensive still.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Dibrom on 2003-01-23 07:29:23
ff123:

The hosting costs are not ~$300 a month (or more)  The hosting does cost more than a top of the line basic webhosting though, which is enough for me to want to reconsider spending that kind of money on a monthly basis when it isn't strictly necessary.  Come to think of it, the setup right now is more like co-location than anything else (I do all the administration, etc).

But you're right in that the main problem is going to be time more than hosting costs..
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: torok on 2003-01-23 07:42:51
Yea, I would give a few bucks if asked. This is my main forum right now. This damn audio obsession. :/

I'd also be willing to donate some time.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: indybrett on 2003-01-24 04:20:05
Quote
This is my main forum right now.

Yeah, mine too. Might as well be my start page.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Secret Chief on 2003-02-15 23:21:18
I'd recommend finally creating that "universal FAQ," or at least "The Complete Guide to Audio Compression," making it easily accessible, then trying to spread the word about it to bump up your Google rankings.

Then make clear in the FAQ that its posting is donation-supported, and provide an easy way for people to donate.

I'm a newbie here, and I'm mighty grateful for all the work you guys have done.  I had given up on MP3s a while ago because, well, they sucked.  Now 90% of what I've encoded is more or less transparent, and I can listen to it instead of my CDs, while also having the means with which to efficiently back up my songs using the alt-presets and FLAC.  I also use Foobar2000 (and I like the name, too).

And I wouldn't mind giving back a couple bucks for your work, partially because I also believe in open source.  I'm not alone.  A lot of people would be more than willing to lend a helping hand if they knew how to, for a lot of reasons, not least paying you back for the service and just to do something for open source in general.  I'm not talking techies, either, but regular old computer users.  You just need to make the means for them to help as easy as possible to access, while also providing an even better service, something as simple as a more intuitive and better-designed FAQ.
Title: Hydrogen Audio Funding
Post by: Jens Rex on 2003-02-15 23:47:25
Isn't there another option besides PayPal? PayPal is evil and besides, I have never been able to succesfully set up an account there. They charge you a dollar, and you're supposed to enter some digits that will appear on your bank statement. But those digits never appeared on my bank statement. Not the right ones anyways.

Is there a way to pay Hydrogen Audio directly with my VISA without all the mess involved with PayPal?
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