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Hydrogenaudio Forum => Site Related Discussion => Topic started by: VCSkier on 2006-08-17 05:12:40

Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: VCSkier on 2006-08-17 05:12:40
i was just wondering if a linux user's forum on ha had ever been considered.  i would love to see a more organized place for us linux users to discuss audio formats, apps, and utilities. 
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: HotshotGG on 2006-08-17 06:46:15
Quote
I was just wondering if a linux user's forum on ha had ever been considered. I would love to see a more organized place for us linux users to discuss audio formats, apps, and utilities


That wouldn't be a bad idea. If you are going to do that though you might as well create an Mac OS / X user forum too. In my sparetime I am trying to add more software to the download page for Linux and OS / X. The wiki was severely lacking those a while back, and I am sure there are quite a few users out there.  A lot of open-source software is easy to port to Win and OS / X too. I guess the new trend is a lot of open-source developers are designing open-source applications that can be compiled on OS / X, etc. 
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: tgoose on 2006-08-17 12:49:18
At first I didn't think this would be a good idea, but then I couldn't think why. So I guess it is!
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: krmathis on 2006-08-17 15:24:40
There are no separate forum for MS Windows, Mac OS X, etc. So why should there be one for GNU/Linux?

I like the idea of forums where we discuss OS dependent applications. But if so, they should create one for each of the major operating systems (Mac OS X, MS Windows and GNU/Linux).
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: tgoose on 2006-08-26 15:32:48
I think enough topics are relevant to win32 that to create a subforum for them would be rather redundant. I don't see where OSX and GNU/Linux ones would go amiss though.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: cabbagerat on 2006-08-26 17:45:06
I would certainly support the creation of a forum for Linux orientated questions - and another one for OSX would be cool too. Linux in particular has a bad reputation concerning the ease of setting up audio devices and applications. It would be nice to to get some expertise together here on HA to answer peoples questions and point them towards good answers.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Patsoe on 2006-08-26 21:34:55
I like this idea too.

It would be easier to keep specific discussions "clean"; see e.g. cabbagerat's recent thread about ALSA resampling, which is for some reason also about Windows' kmixer too, now

Searching for linux-specific solutions would become much easier too. (Adding a search term "linux" doesn't really give you linux-specific threads as a result )
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: The Seeker on 2006-08-26 23:41:08
As a Linux user I'd love to see such a forum,

I started coming here as a Windows user to read up on foobar2000 but since switching to Linux I find myself still here everyday. A separate Linux/Mac/BSD forum would be most welcome.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: VCSkier on 2006-08-27 03:53:06
As a Linux user I'd love to see such a forum,

I started coming here as a Windows user to read up on foobar2000 but since switching to Linux I find myself still here everyday. A separate Linux/Mac/BSD forum would be most welcome.

i'm in the exact same situation...
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Garf on 2006-08-27 09:58:25
91% Windows users
5% Linux users
3% Mac users

I think this is a sensible idea, with +-10% of our userbase not using Windows (more than I would have expected), and I'm in favor.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: xmixahlx on 2006-08-29 00:14:52
i think it is a good idea

a single gnu/linux/bsd/osx forum should suffice
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: VCSkier on 2006-08-29 05:12:53
a single gnu/linux/bsd/osx forum should suffice

i agree.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: HotshotGG on 2006-08-29 06:06:16
Quote
a single gnu/linux/bsd/osx forum should suffice


I would make two. One Linux/BSD based and the other OS/X based reguarding audio software, etc. 
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: krmathis on 2006-08-29 15:12:48
I would make two. One Linux/BSD based and the other OS/X based reguarding audio software, etc. 

...and I would make three, for their corresponding audio software:
* GNU/Linux and BSD (AmaroK, exaile, Banshee, ...).
* Mac OS X (Max, Cog, ...).
* MS Windows (Foobar2000 subforum, EAC, dBpowerAMP, ...).

I simply don't understand why there should be no MS Windows sub-forum as well. So the application discussions could be placed in their corresponding OS sub-forum. Then let all the general encoder discussions stay as today, since most of them are OS independent.

That is my $0.2
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: itisljar on 2006-08-29 17:47:28
Well, I'm not very active member here, but I am reading on daily basis, and since I've moved onto Linux few days ago, I miss linux software for extracting and playing audio. Sure, I know about Amarok, but for finding good extraction software search isn't very helpful - there should be Linux subforum - and I support krmathis's idea on three forums.

My few cents, if anyone cares.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: xmixahlx on 2006-08-30 00:17:48
well, there are two strategies:

* break everything out into OS-specific forums (win,linux,bsd,osx) and make a good tree system

or

* just make a seperate *NIX forum

i'm up for either way
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Hollunder on 2006-08-30 01:12:43
I would appreciate a linux forum too.

I think that one of the main reason for not using linux for media applications is,
besides the lack of some programs, the lack of information and guides.
At least I had a lot of problems and open questions as I tried to switch from XP to ubuntu about a year ago.

HA would be a good knowledgebase for audio-related linux questions.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: iGold on 2006-08-30 04:31:54
I'm agree with Hollunder, Linux (and other OSes beside Windows) has a lack of good information about sound related programs and technologies. On HA there are many linux/macosx related topics in any forum but it's hard to find its if you don't know exactly what you want to know.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Garf on 2006-08-30 06:51:00
I would make two. One Linux/BSD based and the other OS/X based reguarding audio software, etc. 

...and I would make three, for their corresponding audio software:
* GNU/Linux and BSD (AmaroK, exaile, Banshee, ...).
* Mac OS X (Max, Cog, ...).
* MS Windows (Foobar2000 subforum, EAC, dBpowerAMP, ...).

I simply don't understand why there should be no MS Windows sub-forum as well. So the application discussions could be placed in their corresponding OS sub-forum. Then let all the general encoder discussions stay as today, since most of them are OS independent.

That is my $0.2


With over 90% of the users on Windows there is absolultely no point in making a Windows subforum, what on earth would it accomplish? The whole point of a Unix forum would be to make *those* discussions easier to find inside all the general or Windows-specific discussions.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: krmathis on 2006-08-30 15:53:26
With over 90% of the users on Windows there is absolultely no point in making a Windows subforum, what on earth would it accomplish? The whole point of a Unix forum would be to make *those* discussions easier to find inside all the general or Windows-specific discussions.

I am fully aware that ~90% of the users run MS Windows.
The benefit from adding a Windows sub forum as well would be that all the general encoder/audio discussions would be a lot easier to find. No need to wade through all the Windows related threads to find 'those' threads.
After all most of the encoder specific questions are OS independent and should not be mixed with EAC, FB2K, etc. related threads.

Or am I totally wrong? 
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Garf on 2006-08-30 16:41:48
The benefit from adding a Windows sub forum as well would be that all the general encoder/audio discussions would be a lot easier to find. No need to wade through all the Windows related threads to find 'those' threads.
After all most of the encoder specific questions are OS independent and should not be mixed with EAC, FB2K, etc. related threads.

Or am I totally wrong? 


Most threads are either platform independant or clearly marked about what software they are. The fb2k threads even have a dedicated forum, so I don't understand what you mean by "mixed". There are per-format forums for the encoders, too.

Basically I don't understand at all what problem you are trying to solve.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: pepoluan on 2006-08-30 17:28:26
Ah, but we ran into a classical "grid" problem. The way I see it, for some topics we discuss, e.g. FLAC, Vorbis, MP3, can be applied bothways. Only foobar2000 rests squarely in the Win32 domain.

Edit: Not that I am against, but we must carefully think how to lay out the forums.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: krmathis on 2006-08-30 17:42:37
Basically I don't understand at all what problem you are trying to solve.

Ok, lets take the General Audio (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showforum=1) forum as an example.
It is today a mix of platform independent threads (like "The future of audio", "Vinyl and MP3", "Replaygain or not to replaygain?", etc.), and platform dependant threads (like "Windows Master Volume", "TagScanner 4.9", "Euphonos - Mac OS X audio player project", etc.).

What I say is that I think forums like "General Audio" should only contain platform independent threads.
While the platform dependent thread should stay in their separate MS Windows, GNU/Linux and Mac OS X forum.
If we follow your "rules", the "General Audio" forum will continue to stay a mix of MS Windows dependent and platform independent threads. While GNU/Linux and Mac OS X related threads will stay in their own sub forum.
This don't sound right to me!

This is probably at bit off-topic from what I guess the OP mean (find GNU/Linux related threads easier). But if you are going to re-organize the forum, why not make it easier for all of the users?

Still don't get what problems I am trying to solve?
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: VCSkier on 2006-08-31 07:03:50
one of the strengths of ha.org that attracts me to it so much is the fact that it dosen't sub-divide its forums excessively.  my other sites have forums that get posts so rarely, that checking them regularly is boring/pointless, so discussions just don't work well.  by having larger, more active forums that people check more often, while it is more to sort through, more people are active and discussions more sucessful.

at the same time, i've had a very hard time finding quality threads addressing linux applications and the like.  i think if we created a single *nix forum, while not all of the threads would be specifically relevant to me, i would easily be able to sort through them and find, but enought *nix users would be viewing the threads enough to make discussion possoble.

basically, i just don't think the forums would be active enough if we had one for each OS.  possibly, if the proposed forum attracts more *nix users (which i believe it will), at some point in the future the forum will be too crowded and will need to be split to seperate platforms.

just my 2 cents.  anyway this works out, i'll be happy.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Patsoe on 2006-08-31 09:13:45
A little problem though is this: let's say I have a question about cdparanoia on some linux distro, not working well with my particular hardware - does that go in the proposed linux forum, or in CD hardware?

An alternative would then be to create a convention that Linux specific threads are tagged in the title: "[Linux] Topictitle..." - but some people may think that's even worse
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Hollunder on 2006-08-31 13:10:09
Tagging of some way could be nice somehow, but it would need a consequent tagging (probably of all topics) and a proper search for those tags.
I think that would be a good idea if completely reorganising the Forums but too much effort for what we want to do here.
I had that idea because of the topics that would fit in several categories.
I mean, there's sometimes just no need to open a new topic for a short sidequestion regarding another OS, but it would be nice to find those too, therefore the tagging-idea. (I hope you know what I mean, wrote it a bit complicated maybe..)

Well, my solution would be to simply open a subforum for linux/OSX together with maybe some title-tagging as suggested by pastoe, maybe even more concrete tags like the distro or the like, depends on how big the differences are.
If that gets too big it should still be possible to split it with relative ease.
If those topics get multi-OS over time I would leave them in the topic of the main question (Linux-specific question about whatever -> keep at linux).

Well, that's just what I think about that, I'd love to see a linux forum, however it may look like.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: ponchorage on 2006-09-01 15:20:57
This may be a little off-topic, but I'm going to throw it out here:

For those users that are using Linux, what distro is the most friendly for setting up audio apps? I'm currently running Suse 10.1 and the cd auto-loader seems to make it difficult to use wine with windows apps easily. Half of the time, the cdrom device can't be found correctly.

Can I start a poll for this? (I couldn't see any buttons for creating a new poll.)
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: VCSkier on 2006-09-01 16:25:26
this (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=40935) thread of mine from a while back might be helpful to you...
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: pepoluan on 2006-09-01 17:53:59
The difficult thing is deciding if a problem should be posted in the [Linux] forum or in [General Audio] forum.

Heck, with the current - limited - number of forums, some people already have a hard time choosing the forum to post in.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: askoff on 2006-09-01 21:21:39
IMHO, the Linux/BSD or *NIX subforum should be made first. Let's see after that if there's demand for a Win32/64 subforum. Just take one step at the time.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: echo on 2006-09-02 12:02:03
I vote for a *nix/OSX subforum too. I don't think there is a reason for two seperate ones, one for *nix and another for OSX. A single subforum should  probably do, just like it works with the doom9 forums.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: VCSkier on 2006-09-12 21:25:23
as the op, is there some way i should make an official request to admin, or is the existance of this thread enough of a request?
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: CiTay on 2006-10-03 21:47:57
We now have a new "Non-Windows Audio Discussion" forum (if anyone has a better name, please come forward). Have fun!

P.S. This is sort of a test. If all we see in that forum is spiderwebs, it will be removed again.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Demetris on 2006-10-05 07:31:44
Thank you, CiTay!

About the name, I prefer sth like: (GNU/)Linux, BSD, OS X Audio -- if it describes the intended content adequately.

I don't think a negative name is a good idea in this case, but I suppose it doesn't really matter -- the name can be changed any time, if we come up with sth better.

Thanks again!
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: VCSkier on 2006-10-05 07:44:46
Thank you, CiTay!

About the name, I prefer sth like: (GNU/)Linux, BSD, OS X Audio -- if it describes the intended content adequately.

I don't think a negative name is a good idea in this case, but I suppose it doesn't really matter -- the name can be changed any time, if we come up with sth better.

Thanks again!

I totally agree.  the "negative name," as you call it, isn't ideal...  something alittle more specific; inclusive, rather than exclusive would probably sound more appealing and friendly, not to mention it would more likely catch the eye of users of the named systems.

but regardless, i think in the big picture, i don't care much.  people that are more opinionated on the title issue can decide.  i'm just happy we have our own forum now!    Thank you CiTay!
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: CiTay on 2006-11-03 19:08:00
I'm sorry you guys, but it hasn't quite worked out. The section stayed pretty empty (even though some older topics were moved there). I'm afraid it's not the time for such a forum yet. Please post back in General Audio or wherever you see fit.

P.S. Especially sorry @ VCSkier. Had i seen your enthusiasm for the section before i went about removing it... Keep your head up 
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: tgoose on 2006-11-04 01:23:13
There were a number of linux (and OS X, I guess) related topics that got posted in other subforums after this was introduced. Still, you gave it a try so I'm not going to keep complaining eh?
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: ...Just Elliott on 2006-11-05 16:08:15
Ugh, it may have been empty but it was very useful.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Madman2003 on 2006-11-05 17:07:09
I would have to agree, forums don't neccesarily have to be full.Also keep in mind (linux) people didn't get a chance to find hydrogenaudio as a forum for their needs too.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: VCSkier on 2006-11-06 04:50:52
Wow.  I was out of town for the weekend.  Talk about some depressing news to come back to.   

I agree very strongly with ...Just Elliott and Madman2003.  http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showforum=70 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showforum=70) had quickly become my most visited website, and I had suspected that, given time, it's traffic would have grown hugely.  Needless to say, I'm very disappointed.

Ultimately, though, I trust CiTay in his decision.  He obviously has more experience with the forums than I do, and a better idea of what is best for Hydrogenaudio as a whole, in the long run.  While my opinions disagree, I respect his experience.

I would be curious though, to hear if there are any more details about the decision, or considerations that went into it, or even if it was possibly still up for more discussion, but I guess that is just me being overly hopeful...  Oh well.  Life goes on.  The last thing I want is to be an annoyance or a complainer.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: askoff on 2006-11-06 07:45:19
No! I didn't even notice that such forum section existed. Why there was so hurry to remove it? I'm not posting in HA very frequently and General Audio section is so confusing with all those mixed topics that I almost never read it unless I accidentally pick a topic from HA RSS feed which is there.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: profoX on 2006-11-10 10:42:19
Ugh! I came here too late  Please get the linux forum up again  ?
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Hollunder on 2006-12-24 04:30:41
I just recognised that it is gone. Too bad. Guess I should have bothered you guys earlier with my linux audio questions, but it wasn't and is not the time yet as I have to get a proper soundcard first and have to make a clean linux install too.

It may have been full enough if I would have plastered it with all my questions back then
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Gigapod on 2006-12-24 10:50:52
I didn't even know there had been a Linux specific forum. Oh well, hope it's back someday. I only use GNU/Linux (Debian, Mandriva, Ubuntu...), at home and at work.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: k.eight.a on 2008-10-28 15:59:07
Too bad. I switched in the beginning of September and such a category could help me immensely. Now I'm stuck on the local Ubuntu forums, where there are not so many experienced audio enthusiasts and general English speaking Ubuntu forum where it is so easy that your thread too quickly disappears from the view of those who would help.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Neasden on 2008-10-28 17:22:18
One more vote for the Linux forum. In general, the majority of users use Windows, it's a general sense that the first OS assumed to be used on HA is Windows whatever is the subforum.

A Linux subforum would be great. I myself found searching many times for linux specific issues. Although I mostly use Windows at home because of my wife.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: vpa on 2008-10-29 03:57:29
I don't think an *nix subforum would be of great help, as it would make it harder to find the information you want. For example: If you want to play back mp3 on linux, then you might have to browse the  *nix forum and the mp3 forums until you get the information you want. Maybe a "Setting up audio for beginners" would be usefull. But that should be general as well as linux and BSD newbies might have problems with this, as some windows users with installing the right drivers. The idea with tagging is great. Every thread starter should have the option to mark a thread as "General", "Windows specific" or "*nix specific" and the specific threads should be marked with a little icon like "W" for windows and "X" for *nix in the thread overview.

Just my $0.02
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: HotshotGG on 2008-10-29 04:40:12
Quote
One more vote for the Linux forum. In general, the majority of users use Windows, it's a general sense that the first OS assumed to be used on HA is Windows whatever is the subforum.

A Linux subforum would be great. I myself found searching many times for linux specific issues. Although I mostly use Windows at home because of my wife.


I am pretty sure I voted for this before a long time ago and the only reason it was shot down is, because not enough members that visit HA use Linux. The number is greater then anyone could have imagined though, but I think a subforum is necessary given the complexity and much needed user guides that are needed to help new users become more familiar with the operating system including installing and configuring native audio apps (including how to utilize WINE). The same can't be said about Windows or Mac OS/X, which are pretty self-explanatory.

Quote
I don't think an *nix subforum would be of great help, as it would make it harder to find the information you want. For example: If you want to play back mp3 on linux, then you might have to browse the *nix forum and the mp3 forums until you get the information you want. Maybe a "Setting up audio for beginners" would be useful. That should be general as well as linux and BSD newbies might have problems with this, as some windows users with installing the right drivers. The idea with tagging is great.


That's one argument against it the added complexity.

Quote
Every thread starter should have the option to mark a thread as "General", "Windows specific" or "*nix specific" and the specific threads should be marked with a little icon like "W" for windows and "X" for *nix in the thread overview.


That seems like it would be to complicated to do. 
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: Neasden on 2008-10-29 20:58:32
maybe sticky topics like [ LINUX ] or [ MAC ] to certain issues on a specific subforum would already help!
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: buddhabuddy on 2008-11-01 18:45:46
This would be a great place to have a dedicated linux section. Many people are searching for help right now on the general linux forums so this could pull focus to this great board.

Laters
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: k.eight.a on 2008-11-06 19:30:07
This would be a great place to have a dedicated linux section. Many people are searching for help right now on the general linux forums so this could pull focus to this great board.

Laters
Sure, that is a strong argument!
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: ExUser on 2008-11-06 22:42:53
Just ask your questions here in General Audio or something. There's really no sense adding another sub-forum that's rarely used.

If you want to show how much traffic there would be, start each Linux-related topic with [Linux]. If you Linux-users show that there is enough content to populate a forum with, I'll personally clean up the titles and move it all over there.

It appears that there is just not enough of a userbase, however.
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: xmixahlx on 2008-11-08 05:11:28
this is what happened last time...

there just wasn't that much traffic in the subforum and it was removed. however, imho it was extremely useful... which begs the question > why make a subforum? for quantity or quality control?

if the subforum was even "non-windows" i think it would prove the most useful.


later
Title: linux user's forum?
Post by: HotshotGG on 2008-11-08 05:42:28
Quote
There just wasn't that much traffic in the subforum and it was removed


You want to know what the sad thing is? I never even saw it. That's how quickly it was removed. 
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