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Hydrogenaudio Forum => Validated News => Topic started by: ald on 2005-05-14 16:27:04

Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ald on 2005-05-14 16:27:04
1) True Audio (TTA) command line encoder - is a free console-based real-time lossless audio compressor. TTA performs lossless compression of audio data for multichannel 8, 16 and 24-bit WAV files. Features: Unicode file names support, minimal system requirements, high speed and compression performance. Console app.

+ WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE support.

Download TTA compressor for Windows:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tta/tta....3.zip?download (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tta/ttaenc-3.3.zip?download)
Download TTA compressor for Linux:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tta/tta....3.tgz?download (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tta/ttaenc-3.3.tgz?download)

2) TTA Input plug-in for dBpowerAMP 2 version 1.1 has just been released.

Download plug-in:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tta/tta....0.zip?download (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tta/ttaplugin-dbpoweramp-1.0.zip?download)

For more info please visit the project homepage:
http://tta.sourceforge.net (http://tta.sourceforge.net)
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tta (http://sourceforge.net/projects/tta)
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ffooky on 2005-05-14 19:19:49
Just in case you weren't aware, the latest beta of xACT (OS X frontend for shntool, cdda2wav & much more) has support for TTA encode/decode using 3.2. Will it be able to decode 3.3 encodings or will we need to wait for an OS X port ?
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: spoon on 2005-05-14 23:08:54
Thanks ald,

What tagging type is used for TTA?
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: rjamorim on 2005-05-14 23:16:24
Quote
What tagging type is used for TTA?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=297612")


[a href="http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison]http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...less_comparison[/url]
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: jtclipper on 2005-05-15 12:19:19
Quote
Thanks ald,

What tagging type is used for TTA?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=297612"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I want to support TTA as well and from what I see and also talked about it suggests ID3, since the files are huge, people and software will also use APE, I guess it will be ID3 as official and APE as semi-official.
I am going to go with ID3.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: BoraBora on 2005-05-15 15:13:35
According to my tests on 20 CD, the biggest change is the encoding/decoding speed, twice slower than in 3.2, with no change in compression rate. Is it to be expected? That would make TTA much less efficient than any of the "big 3" (FLAC, Wavpack, Monkey's Audio). 
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ald on 2005-05-16 03:09:44
Quote
According to my tests on 20 CD, the biggest change is the encoding/decoding speed, twice slower than in 3.2, with no change in compression rate.


Sorry about this. It's unoptimized compile. I will replace it quickly.

-- Alexander
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: Liisachan on 2005-05-17 03:39:49
thanks for your great work again

I think you've replaced the ZIP, but the both version say "3.3 build 20050514", a bit confusing. in case someone wonders, the filesize and CRC (if i'm not wrong):

Code: [Select]
Old
;        98304  01:10.00 2005-05-14 ttaenc.exe
ttaenc.exe 59584124

New
;        94208  00:33.34 2005-05-17 ttaenc.exe
ttaenc.exe 81DF8D3D


Timestamps are UTC.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ald on 2005-05-17 06:54:02
Quote
I think you've replaced the ZIP, but the both version say "3.3 build 20050514", a bit confusing. in case someone wonders, the filesize and CRC (if i'm not wrong):


OK, FIXED:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tta/tta....3.zip?download (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tta/ttaenc-3.3.zip?download)

Sorry, forgot about this. Again many thank's ;-)

-- Alexander
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ald on 2005-05-17 07:06:45
Quote
What tagging type is used for TTA?


Thanks for dBpowerAMP!

TTA supports ID3 tags officially. You can use APE2 with TTA also.
It means just we don't plan to use both of these formats in our software.
I prefer ID3v2. Really I don't like both of these tag formats, maybe I can to present new one at soon. What do you think about XML tags?

-- Alexander
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: yong on 2005-05-17 07:32:19
isn't the v3.3 still doesn't support stdin/out?
fb2k hang when i try to use stdin/out...  :P
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: spoon on 2005-05-17 09:59:00
Quote
Thanks for dBpowerAMP!

TTA supports ID3 tags officially. You can use APE2 with TTA also.
It means just we don't plan to use both of these formats in our software.
I prefer ID3v2. Really I don't like both of these tag formats, maybe I can to present new one at soon. What do you think about XML tags?

-- Alexander
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=298253"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It is a 5 minute job for me to add tagging to your db plug in (ID3v1, ID3v2 + APE2), just drop in components.

>What do you think about XML tags?

It is a little like re-inventing the wheel, unless there is a specific good reason... ID3v1 & ID3v2 both have issues with tagging, APE2 is pretty good allowing any tags / binary data, APE2 is easy to add for a developer and are at the end of a file which means faster tag writing.

Guidance over tags needs to come from the creator of the codec.

>It means just we don't plan to use both of these formats in our software.

If your not going to support them then no-one else will, it needs to be clear which tags can be used and which one is recommended as default.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ald on 2005-05-17 17:31:21
Quote
>What do you think about XML tags?

It is a little like re-inventing the wheel, unless there is a specific good reason... ...APE2 is easy to add for a developer and are at the end of a file which means faster tag writing.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=298271"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I prefer ID3v2 for current TTA format.

As about ID3 and APE tags..

1) all of these tags are not album-oriented ..or I'm wrong?
2) It's one-level tag formats, I prefer a tree.
3) Both of these formats has no friendly CUE/CDT support.

I think that the XML-based tag system can to resolve such problems..

Current TTA format is stable and will not be changed in future, but we have a test version of another streamable codec for special application. It's 1.5 times faster than  TTA without a loss of compression, but with some restrictions (sometimes better, sometimes not). I plan to release it as a separate format. It's format is under development now and I'm looking for a good tag system for it.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: spoon on 2005-05-18 10:37:34
>1) all of these tags are not album-oriented ..or I'm wrong?
>2) It's one-level tag formats, I prefer a tree.
>3) Both of these formats has no friendly CUE/CDT support.

All these relate to CUE sheets?

I will try my APE2 salesman pitch 

For most people the standard ID3v1 fields are fine (although ID3v1 a little short on length, ID3v2 and APE2 no problems), some might be more advanced and like to save multiple genres, ape2 has tag string lists: have as many genres as needed (ID3v2 cannot).

Some people might want to save album cover art (WMA and M4a from itunes have these), that removes ID3v1 from the equation.

Others like to transcode, especially lossless, from m4a ALAC, FLAC or WMA to TTA, and then back again as a whim takes, this is where id3v2 is let down with it's fixed fields, you might have a tag entry that cannot find a place in ID3v2 so the tag is dropped.

There are some people might have a wav file with riff chunks, APE2 could easy accommodate those with it's ability to save binary in a tag (ID3v2 cannot).

and there are the cue sheet people, like to rip a cd to one file, APE2 could easily handle an embedded cue sheet, you could have:

TAG Element: CUE
TAG Value: standard .cue text entry

The way I see it APE2 is as good as XML and it is already in use. APE is powerful, it just needs various advanced standards defining, it is something I have been wanting to do for a while (allocating time is the killer), it needs a page putting up somewhere that documents such advanced usage of APE2 then people can have all the advanced features mentioned. Apathy of getting such adopted is another issue, I could support all of those in dbpoweramp but that is no good if no other program does, you know how many CD ripping programs are being actively developed (rippers at the grass roots level, not your iTunes or WMP), that could add support for that, probably 3 or 4.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: rjamorim on 2005-05-18 10:57:04
Quote
APE is powerful, it just needs various advanced standards defining, it is something I have been wanting to do for a while (allocating time is the killer), it needs a page putting up somewhere that documents such advanced usage of APE2 then people can have all the advanced features mentioned.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=298539")


I believe this is a start:
[a href="http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=APEv2]http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=APEv2[/url]

The entire APE tag documentation is available there.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: spoon on 2005-05-18 13:26:39
There is a page that details the mechanics of APE2 (a good start), but will other developers actually discuss what can be standardized in APE2, I doubt it...one might take exception to album art embedded, etc. People just seem to act unilaterally, out of what I don't know, ego? That is why .m4a with iTunes pisses all over other formats, as far as joe public is concerned, it is an end to end solution (album art, ratings, last played, play count, volume normalize), with all those supported in a portable player. Take ogg, portable players (of the handfull) will only pull out artist, album, title, just not in the same ball park.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: jtclipper on 2005-05-18 14:01:23
I have talked about this, a lot in this forum in the past, but people do not seem to understand the importance of standardized field names.
They think that the format will be limited because of that, forgetting about user fields.
Personally I do not understand why tag fields should have long and descriptive names, we need a bunch of 'official' fixed/standard fields and unlimited user ones , mp4/ID3 are good examples , both suck in other areas though.

It is time for a serious cross format field standardization always taking in mind current implementations and expanding amending on that.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: rjamorim on 2005-05-18 16:33:02
Counting down until the Matroska guys (Pamel?) show up in this thread...
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ald on 2005-05-18 18:32:48
Quote
Counting down until the Matroska guys (Pamel?) show up in this thread...
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=298604")


I know about Matroska. This container can to resolve ALL problems  I have read the Matroska documentation... but I think that I just want a simple tag, not a container.

[a href="http://www.matroska.org/technical/specs/tagging/index.html]http://www.matroska.org/technical/specs/tagging/index.html[/url]
Again, how about CUE fields, like an INDEXes, PRE/POST GAPS, e.t.c.

Maybe I'm wrong, I think it's better for this purpose to have only tagging part of Matroska with additional fields. Maybe it can be a small, XBML/XML based tagging library for separate use in audio/video formats?

Is here any ways to use (partially) Matroska tags separate from MKA container?
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ChristianHJW on 2005-05-18 21:03:00
Quote
Is here any ways to use (partially) Matroska tags separate from MKA container?


Anything about matroska is in the public domaine and free to use, so don't hesitate to use our tagging system if you want to.

Christian
matroska project admin
http://www.matroska.org (http://www.matroska.org)

@ rjamorim : i can send Pamel here also, in case you prefer to have him talking instead of myself  ....
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: EdBanky on 2005-05-22 09:08:33
Howdy ALD,  it's your English-writer friend.  Keep up the good work.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ATWindsor on 2005-05-30 10:35:12
Quote
Others like to transcode, especially lossless, from m4a ALAC, FLAC or WMA to TTA, and then back again as a whim takes, this is where id3v2 is let down with it's fixed fields, you might have a tag entry that cannot find a place in ID3v2 so the tag is dropped.


Could you eleborate this? In foobar i can write any field I choose in id3v2.

AtW
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: johnsonlam on 2005-05-30 15:09:16
Surprisingly it's faster than 3.0 quite a lot, and compression ratio not bad.

Also the all-in-one package let foobar2000 and directshow player works excellent, before TTA3.3 I try with FLAC, but it crashed and claimed that I'm over-clocking (I'm accurate-clocking), also the FLAC front-end seems don't know command-line failed to finish the encode ....

FLAC is good but the package is not friendly enough, also ogg-flac cause another pile of problems that frightened me.

Since Monkey's Audio seems dead (well it's not but nothing new), and I've no experience on WavPack and OptimFROG, TTA seems a good choice for me!
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: spoon on 2005-05-30 15:56:28
It will use one of the fields to store sub fields, you would be luck if all other applications that would use this also. Now with a tagging format like APE2 or Ogg Vorbis they are truely open fields.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ATWindsor on 2005-05-30 16:02:31
Quote
It will use one of the fields to store sub fields, you would be luck if all other applications that would use this also. Now with a tagging format like APE2 or Ogg Vorbis they are truely open fields.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=301816"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hmm, interesting, do you happen to know which field foobar uses?

AtW
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ald on 2005-05-30 16:55:45
Quote
Since Monkey's Audio seems dead (well it's not but nothing new), and I've no experience on WavPack and OptimFROG, TTA seems a good choice for me!
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=301788"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thank you for a good choice! TTA is a codec, developed especially for easily use. It uses one, optimal (about a middle in comparisons) compression level. We have not stopped the research, but TTA is stable and we will release the new TTA codec only in case of significant algorithm changes.

For testing purposes we going to release the new TTA-based streamable codec in september, but it will be absolutely different codec with another role.

At now we checking the libebml and matroska (http://www.matroska.org) container for using with a new codec. In case of successfully testing - new codec may be released with EBML tags or in MKA container completely. In other case - new XML-based tag system or multimedia container will be released (and fully documented) for using in all of related projects in future.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: spoon on 2005-05-30 17:48:03
Quote
Hmm, interesting, do you happen to know which field foobar uses?

AtW
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=301820"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It will be a correct field for undefined entries, not something they have hacked.
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: ChristianHJW on 2005-05-30 22:00:00
Quote
At now we checking the libebml and matroska (http://www.matroska.org) container for using with a new codec. In case of successfully testing - new codec may be released with EBML tags or in MKA container completely.
... looking forward to your input, just contact us by email to matroska-devel AT lists DOT matroska DOT org if anything should be unclear ...

Christian
matroska project admin
Title: TTA lossless audio compressor v3.3
Post by: Hyperion on 2005-06-02 01:08:39
in_tta's ID3V2 didn't work.
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