Hydrogenaudio Forums

CD-R and Audio Hardware => CD Hardware/Software => Topic started by: westgroveg on 2004-01-18 07:32:19

Poll
Question: What brand of CD-R's have burnt fine but died after time without any physical damage (scratches etc.) or extreme exposure to sunlight, heat etc. ?
Option 1: Taiyo Yuden votes: 13
Option 2: Kodak votes: 11
Option 3: Ritek votes: 17
Option 4: Mitsubishi votes: 4
Option 5: Mitsui Toatsu Chemicals votes: 9
Option 6: TDK votes: 26
Option 7: Sony votes: 28
Option 8: Princo votes: 37
Option 9: CMC Magnetics votes: 61
Option 10: Other (please post) votes: 47
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: westgroveg on 2004-01-18 07:32:19
CD-RW.org the best known place for discussing CD-R media brands has had very few users in the CD-R(W) media forum lately so I thought it would be a good idea to start a new, more accurate thread for dead CD-R media at HA whether it's a success will depend on the users.

If you have more than one brand feel free to post them all.

Use  CDR Identifier (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=CDR+Identifier+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=) or Nero Info Tool (http://www.cdspeed2000.com/go.php3?link=download.html#neroinfotool) to identify the real CD-R manufacturer also specify the CD-R manufacturer on the case, box or spindle, drive used to burn, speed, color of the CD-R & burn date would also be useful

CD-R quality can be measured using,
  • Nero CD Speed (http://www.cdspeed2000.com/go.php3?link=download.html#nerocdspeed) (Extra\Disc quality test)
  • Kprobe (http://upload.cdfreaks.com/Kprobe/kpsetup.exe) for Lite-on owners
  • Plextools (http://www.plextor.be/technicalservices/downloads/utilities.asp?choice=Utilities) for Plextor Premium owners (Q-Check C1/C2 Test)
For those who want to know what are generally reliable brands to use here is my short summary which is based on the results found here, personal experience & these forums,
  • Afterdawn (http://forums.afterdawn.com/forum_view.cfm/39) - CD-RW.org forum
  • CD Freaks (http://club.cdfreaks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33) - Club CD Freaks media forum
  • CDR-Info (http://www.cdrinfo.com/forum/tt.asp?forumid=56) - CD/DVD±R/RW/RAM Media forum
[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%']Highest quality brands [/span](*)
  • Taiyo Yuden (http://www.t-yuden.com/recordablemedia/index.cfm)
  • Mitsubishi
[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%']Medium quality brands[/span]
  • Ricoh
  • RiTEK
  • SKC
  • TDK
  • Fornet
  • Prodisc
  • Mitsui Toatsu Chemicals
  • Moser Baer India
  • Multi Media Masters & Machinery
  • MPO
  • Kodak [span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'](!)[/span]
[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%']Low quality brands[/span]
  • Sony
  • Princo
  • Gigastorage
  • Plasmon
  • CMC Magnetics
  • AMS Technologies
  • Lead Data Inc
  • NAN-YA Electronics[/color]
[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'](*) Gold will help prevent deterioration, look for gold CD-R's[/span]

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'](!) Tops are reported to peel with time[/span]

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']This list may change depending on future findings[/span]


DVD-R Armour (http://www.tdk.com.au/product_DVDArmour.asp) is a solution for those who find DVD media too delicate (scratches easily), newer DVD-R Armour discs also provide extra UV protection.

The OSTA.org (http://www.osta.org/) (Optical Storage Technology Association) site has some very useful information & can answer many of your CD-R questions (http://www.osta.org/technology/cdqa.htm).
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: ViPER1313 on 2004-01-18 07:39:43
I have ~2 year old Memorex (CMC) discs that have unrecoverable C2 errors around the end of the disc.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: AtaqueEG on 2004-01-18 08:53:17
I once did a --rather limited-- experiment, just for fun.
I recorded a CMC CD-R with music with my LiteOn 24102B.
I left if outdoors, recorded-side up and everyday I would try to extract/play it.
It worked for 17 days, no sh*t

Maybe it was just luck, but I have stopped worrying about CD-Rs becoming useless.
I have been burning since 1998 and even the earliest CDs I have (except for some very-bad-I-don't-know-who-made-'em-old-super-green-cyanine-on-gold's) still work.
So I have survived without problems what we could call "Pio2001's curse" 
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-01-18 09:00:57
/me is uploading some Plextools Pro scans now ...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-01-18 09:15:51
El-Cheapo deep-blue AZO CD-R disc (650 MB), dated 19. January 2000

Burned with Yamaha CRW-6416S

ID:    Multi Media Masters & Machinery, sold under the brand of "Network"
ATIP: 97m 28s 21f

(http://www.jeanlucpicard.org/pictures/disc01.png)

Tasty scan IMHO ...

Another scan of a disc with the same ATIP/ID, but sold by Traxdata (Traxdata Silver), burned with the CRW-6416S as well ...

(http://www.jeanlucpicard.org/pictures/disc02.png)

More scans to follow ...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-01-18 09:40:54
Hehe ...

Lead Data - AZO

97m26s50f - burned 10.10.1998 on a TEAC SCSI 4X CDR writer

Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Gabriel on 2004-01-18 09:58:23
Fujfilm, but those ones were quite old (about 7 years old)
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Sebastian Mares on 2004-01-18 10:08:10
Quote
Fujfilm, but those ones were quite old (about 7 years old)

Taiyo Yuden!
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: mai9 on 2004-01-18 11:24:35
I won't buy Princo ever again, they are all dying. Burnt with Yamaha 4260 some years ago.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: stipe on 2004-01-18 11:52:25
GIGA-master. Burnt five of them. Not one of them works now!
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: AndyMutz on 2004-01-18 13:40:23
years ago i burned a lot of PLATINUM CD-Rs. today all of them are either partially or completely unreadable. when i try to look up the manufacturer info with the nero tools, all fields are blank, so i can't say who made this pieces of shit.

-andy-
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: ssjkakaroto on 2004-01-18 13:56:08
i have some CD's that are so crappy that they don't even have any ATIP information or if they do it's unreadable!  The brand on the box is JTec
edit: they don't even have one scratch and were stored safely!
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: kotrtim on 2004-01-18 14:46:22
nan-ya
the caoting peeled off
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: vinu on 2004-01-18 15:12:51
I've been using CD-R's for about five years now - have discs by HP, Kodak and Sony. None have failed so far.

I've however seen an Amkette disk which belonged to one of my friends fail... it had no scratches on it's surface.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: odious malefactor on 2004-01-18 18:28:16
Quote
Quote
Fujfilm, but those ones were quite old (about 7 years old)

Taiyo Yuden!

Fujifilm CD-R's are (or were) also manufactured  by Ritek,  TDK, and last but not least, FUJI Photo Film Co., Ltd.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Sebastian Mares on 2004-01-18 19:08:41
Quote
Quote
Quote
Fujfilm, but those ones were quite old (about 7 years old)

Taiyo Yuden!

Fujifilm CD-R's are (or were) also manufactured  by Ritek,  TDK, and last but not least, FUJI Photo Film Co., Ltd.

Oh, I see... I thought they were all manufactured by TY.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: M on 2004-01-18 19:36:41
FujiFilm discs labeled MADE IN JAPAN are manufactured by Taiyo Yuden; if they are labeled MADE IN TAIWAN the manufacturer varies. But I've never had a FujiFilm or Taiyo Yuden disc fail.

  The only "brand names" that have consistently died - from my own experience - are Memorex and Maxell. Both are reputedly much, much more reliable now... but they left such a bad impression that I am loathe to use/accept either of those brands for any reason, whatsoever.

    - M.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-01-18 20:15:14
I've lost tons of early Ritek and CMC discs (labeled Bestmedia, Platinum, early Tevion in Germany).

Not a single TY or MCC failed on me, though - I still got those wonderful and good-looking deep-blue Verbatim Metal AZO's (up to 12x)  in my Audio CD collection ... they play fine and, apart from few scratches, no C2 errors are reported when they are scanned with either Plextools and/or K-Probe.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: outscape on 2004-01-18 21:02:23
Quote
Quote
Fujfilm, but those ones were quite old (about 7 years old)

Taiyo Yuden!

i don't think taiyo yuden were making fujifilm media at the time (i could be wrong, though). i have fuji media from around the same time and they are made by either fuji or TDK and both are made in japan. i have some sony taiyo yuden from like 6 years ago which don't have c2 errors. thus far i have ran into one defective fujifilm cd-r. it had small "holes" in the dye and if you hold the disc up you can see right through them.

as with other media, i've had mixed results with maxell. i have old maxells that are now almost totally unreadable and have a high c2 error rate, and i also have more recent maxell media which have no c2 errors.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: harashin on 2004-01-18 21:12:58
IIRC, Fujifilm had made their own CD-Rs. (cyanine, green colored)

Anyway, I lost 2 Mr. Data(CMC) discs.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: outscape on 2004-01-19 05:51:53
Quote
IIRC, Fujifilm had made their own CD-Rs. (cyanine, green colored)

the TDK fujifilm are slightly more blue-ish. the fuji-made fujifilm is dark green while the TY ones are brighter green. fujifilm still make their own media today me thinks, but it's mainly distributed in europe. my local supermarket sells only TY fujifilm but my university bookshop sell made in germany fujifilm that are made by fuji.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Gabriel on 2004-01-19 07:55:08
My dead Fujifilm cds are dark green made by Matsushita.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: 6545608403 on 2004-01-19 09:07:50
9 Dead CMCs [sold as Memorex].
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: sven_Bent on 2004-01-19 09:14:15
1 dead pioner CD..it got fluid inside..wierd


Quote
9 Dead CMCs [sold as Memorex].


damn i just bougth a bunch of Memorex

-- edit --


anybody know about these BAS/EMTEC CD-R's ?

ATIP: 97m 17s 06f
Disc Manufacturer: Moser Baer India Ltd.
Reflective layer:  Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Recording Speeds:  min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity:  702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

-- edit --

just wnated to add more info on my dead pioner cd-r

ATIP:              97m 27s 31f
Disc Manufacturer: Pioneer Video Corp.
Reflective layer:  Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Recording Speeds:  min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity:  657.42MB (74m 50s 01f / LBA: 336601)

the reflective layer (greenis color) turned to fluid on a 0.5x1cm area.
if i touch the etiket side i coudl se from below the grenn fluid making movements.

the cd-r are a backup of my win98se Danish so its a couple of years old
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: ZYron on 2004-01-20 15:52:34
Hi,

I lost some cheap Memorx and Prostore (Multi Media Masters & Machinary SA) CDs. But the oldest Disk in my Collection is still alive, and in good shape. :-)

Verbatim Datalive Plus burned 1995 on Philips CDD 2000

(http://www25.brinkster.com/therealzyron/verbatim1995.png)

Ciao ZYron
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Artemis3 on 2004-01-20 17:07:33
I have lots of "Benq", their Atip shows:

ATIP:              97m 25s 29f
Disc Manufacturer: Hitachi Maxell, Ltd.
Reflective layer:  Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type:        CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds:  min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity:  702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

Anyone had any experiece with these?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pio2001 on 2004-01-20 21:48:00
I've just bought a Lite-On drive for CD scanning, so here we go
I can't post any ATIP because my drive can't read ATIPs from burned CDRs.
Click on the names in order to see the K-Probe scans. Beware of their logarithmic scaling.

Burned with a Teac 4x SCSI burner, from 1 to 4x in 1999

Dead :
Maxell CDR74XL (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/maxell-cdr74xl-darkblue-1999-re.png), dark blue. Scan aborted because of a read error.
Mitsui SG 74 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/mitsui-sg-74-1999.png), made by Mitsui, silver.

Alive :
BASF / EMTEC 74 Extra (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/basfemtec-74-extra-02-1999-darkblue-tao.png), dark blue, burned in february 1999, the C2 errors are caused by the TAO burning.
Fnac Gold 74 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/fnac-gold-74-4x-darkgreen-1999-tao.png) Dark green, certified for 4x speed. The C2 errors are caused by TAO burning.
Kodak Digital Science InfoGuard 74 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/kodak-infoguard-74-6x-light_over_gold-1999-tao.png), certified for 6x speed, light bottom on gold layer. C2 errors caused by TAO burning.
TDK CDR74 Reflex (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/tdk-cdr74-reflex-darkblue-1999-tao.png), dark blue. C2 errors cause by TAO burning.
Verbatim DatalifePlus 74 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/verbatim-datalifeplus-74-deepblue-1999-tao.png) Very dark blue. C2 errors caused by TAO burning.


Burned with a Yamaha 6416S burner at 6x.

1999

Dead
Mitsui Golden Dye 74 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/mitsuimediagoldendye-74-6x-1999.png), certified for 6x speed. Same as the above, but for consumers (the Mitsui SG line was for professionals). All of them (about 20 CDRs) are dead.
Interesting picture, up my first Mitsui Golden Dye, down, my last one.

(http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/yellowishcdrs.jpg)

A scan (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/mitsuicdspeed1.png) of the upper one, when the picture was taken, in april 2003, and a scan (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/mitsuicdspeed2.png) of the lower one.

2000

Dead
Fnac silver 74 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/fnac-silver-74-light-12x-2000.png), pearlized top, light bottom, certified for 12x speed.
HiSpace silver 700MB, dark blue, certified for 12x speed. CD unreadable, scan impossible.
HiSpace Gold 700 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/hispace-gold-700-darkgreen-6x-2000.png) Very dark green, certified for 6x speed.
Memorex CDR650 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/memorex-cdr650-8x-lightblue-09_2000.png) Certified for 8x speed, green.
Ricoh Type 74 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/ricoh-type74--650mb-madeineu-light-2000-re.png) Made in EU, light bottom. Scan aborted because of a read error.


Alive
Fnac gold 74 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/fnac-gold-74-light-12x-2000.png) Light bottom, pearlized top, certified for 12x speed. The C2 burst is caused by the Lite-On spin up.

Note that the Fnac gold/silver and HiSpace gold/silver were the exact same models :

(http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/silvergold.jpg)



2001

Dead
HiSpace Carbon CD 80 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/hispace-carboncd-80-2001.png). Black bottom.

CDRs burned in 2002 are mostly alive. They are HiSpace Gold and Fnac Gold (both made by MPO), but it's too early to get an idea. Look for example at this other HiSpace Carbon CD 80 (http://perso.numericable.fr/laguill2/pictures/rip/hispace-carboncdltd-80-24x-mine-2001.png) limited edition burned in late 2001, compared to the above one.
EDIT : none of the previous Fnac or HiSpace were made by MPO according to the ATIP. But HiSpace were always made by MPO according to the sleeve.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-01-22 17:04:19
Quote
I've just bought a Lite-On drive for CD scanning, so here we go

Hmm ... a DVD drive ... over at CDFreaks, they recommend using a Litey CDRW or DVD+/-RW for CD scanning ... but dead media is dead media anyway so the actual error relations should be roughly the same.

Another Disc ... C2 spikes at the end from TAO recording ...

ATIP 97m26s11f - Manufacturer ist Postech, sold under the brand of Bestmedia, unknown burner, dated 1999

Title: R.I.P.
Post by: ViPER1313 on 2004-01-22 18:03:16
(http://www.angelfire.com/mt/viper1313/deadcd.png)

This CD is a Memorex burned around 1.5 - 2 years ago. 48x certified, white top - this CD played for a long time, and the CD is not scratched, but other factors might have come into play. These include:

1. Crappy 32x TDK burner: this burner never made great copies, although the CD was readable when it was first burnt.

2. CD spent much time in my car, during both the summer and winter - I have many other CDs that have survived the same treatment w/ no ill effects.

3. The CD has a label covering the entire top of the disk: If anything, I feel this would protect the data on the disc.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Xenion on 2004-01-23 00:01:00
tevion (from a weell known discount shop here)
i'm only using TDK now.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Oge_user on 2004-01-23 11:49:30
2 Verbatim CD-RW Blue, bought in Jan 2001. Can't read them at all.
2 Philips CD-R Metal, bought in summer of 2002. 4% of unrecoverable errors at the end of the disc.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Daffy on 2004-01-23 12:03:09
Pio2001, I would hate to breathe the air wherever you live.  You've been very passionate about this subject the past year or so, and it's amazing to me to see and read about how many discs you have reported that have gone bad and are even showing erosion.  I'm wondering what's causing that?  Could it be altitude, air pollution, etc....whatever, it seems very abnormal to see such a high failure rate in your media.

I have probably over 1000 CD-R's from various manufacturers, and to this day every single one of them still works (as far as I know - I don't check them every day, but random scans reveal no damage).  I have never seen any kind of erosion in my discs, and over the years as I've changed drives, all my drives have been able to read my burns with no problems.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who doesn't have to vote in this poll.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pio2001 on 2004-01-23 22:08:42
Quote
Could it be altitude, air pollution, etc....whatever, it seems very abnormal to see such a high failure rate in your media

Altitude low (between 100 and 200 meters), pollution rather high. I posted the SO2 measurments in another thread, that were found to be average by another people having the same SO2 concentration, and no dead CDRs, but I lived in a rather polluted street. Now I've moved in another part of the town.

But on the good side, I was surprised to see that some of my oldest CDRs have survived very well (see TDK and Verbatim from 1999 above), while I thought they were all dead. The Kodak surprised me too, because some died, but I threw them away long ago.

I suffered a lot of problems because I used a lot of Mitsui, and this brand especially failed me. As well as Ricoh, Fnac and HiSpace (but it is possible that Fnac were just rebranded HiSpace CDRs). Maybe I would have been luckier with TDK or Verbatim, not to mention Tayo Yuden, for which we have no trusted source here.
I think that heat played a role too. The same CDRs stored in a cooler place lasted nearly one more year than mine (but light exposure can have been a factor too). the temperature was roughly 19-22 °C from september to may, and 26-30 °C from june to august (36 °C for three weeks this summer, but the CD were already dead before).
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: dreamliner77 on 2004-01-23 22:29:23
A little off topic.  I live in New England, and as we know, it has been abnormally cold here this winter.  I, until yesterday, had my cdr's in storage.  This was someplace that had no heat.  Temps have regulary gotten below 0 degrees F.  Should I worry about any damage to previously burned cdr's or blanks?  When I got them out of storage, I gradually reintroduced them to the warmth.  From an outside temp of 17F to a garage that was about 35F, then to a unheated halway (probably about 50F) then finally into room temp.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-01-23 23:35:43
Quote
I suffered a lot of problems because I used a lot of Mitsui, and this brand especially failed me. As well as Ricoh, Fnac and HiSpace (but it is possible that Fnac were just rebranded HiSpace CDRs)

Hmm ... since we've been using the same burner model for quite a while, I think you should also regard the possibility of non-matching write strategies or non-properly functioning OPC's with the Yamaha CRW6416S as an additional reason for media failure ...

Nearly every piece of media that failed in my collection consists of some sort of Phatlocyanine dye (there is a multitude of crystal-clear dyes based on Phtalocyanine, not only one) ... in comparison, the Azo or Cyanine types only seldomly failed - even the el-cheapo ones from e.g. Memorex.

In addition, Yamaha hasn't been that generous with new firmware revisions (which I mostly regard as fine-tuning for media compatibility) when being compared with other manufacturers ... maybe they gave up firmware research on the low-speed 6x CDRW early in favour of the faster drives ...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pio2001 on 2004-01-24 02:48:58
But in this case, how do you explain the Ricoh scan ? the C2 rate goes up to 6000 per second, which was not the case when it was burned, while the C1 rate is still zero in very large aeras (no C1 error in more than 10 minutes).

The Fnac gold scan from 2000 shows that it does not come from a mechanical defect of the burner that would give high error rates past 62 minutes. We would have seen a C1 increase near the end.
I think that there is definitely something attacking the CD from the outer edge, and, in a lesser extend, from the inner edge.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-01-24 10:03:37
Quote
But in this case, how do you explain the Ricoh scan ? the C2 rate goes up to 6000 per second, which was not the case when it was burned, while the C1 rate is still zero in very large aeras (no C1 error in more than 10 minutes).

The Fnac gold scan from 2000 shows that it does not come from a mechanical defect of the burner that would give high error rates past 62 minutes. We would have seen a C1 increase near the end.
I think that there is definitely something attacking the CD from the outer edge, and, in a lesser extend, from the inner edge.

I sometimes experienced the same phenomenon, too ... and if these C2 errors haven't been there before (how could they ...), you surely are right about the process of media degradation (although I still believe that K-Probe does not work that accurate with a DVD-ROM). Some scans of mine show higher error rates at the start (no visible damage to the CD itself) so I can also confirm that some CD's are beginning to degrade from the inner edge ...

A well-manufactured piece of media should show a somewhat consistant (and low) error rate throughout the whole disc after writing (like my Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden scans show) and a non-matching or non-properly aligned write strategy should have a constant impact on error rates.

But what about tracking/focusing errors rising to the end? Nearly every piece of media (even highest quality E-Grade TY) shows higher deviations of FE/TE with Plextools Pro towards the end - a writer not being capable of following the track properly (or a writer not using a running OPC like modern drives do to adjust write speed and fine-tune laser power output) will surely induce a higher BLER towards the end - not even regarding the heat-up of the media during the burn process which (in my case) was some "problem" with the CRW6416S.

This leads to an increase of errors towards the outer edge of the CD and, in conjunction with media degradation (which is measureable and definitely takes place) will cause media failure.

The real problem is that we cannot know how the CD error rate relations (start/end - BLER) were right from the beginning (after the burn) since no comparable tests have been conducted (and no tools for the masses - except for early versions of Nero CD Speed - have been available) back then.

What makes me somewhat doubt that this is media-related only is the fact that I regularly bought CD's with a friend - we bought the same media (I grabbed two ten-packs, he grabbed two). My CD's all failed (using a highly acclaimed quality SCSI write device) whereas my friend can still read every single CD (he did use some questionable Mitsumi ATAPI 4x writer). 

IMO, the Yamaha CRW6416S was far from being crap, but support was not that strong from Yamaha's side - I would have e.g. wished some guidance in what media to buy.

In my opinion, the problems with older media that we face today are surely not entirely related to media degradation - high error rates after the burn on lower-quality media due to somewhat unlucky combinations of burner/media might introduce or accelerate the media degradation we encounter, disregarding the fact that we have been surely sold some media with badly-sealed edges (so any corrosive agent can diffuse into the CD between the reflective layer and the dye).

But MPO as a european quality manufacturer with lots of ISO 900x certificates shouldn't have produced such bad kind of media IMO ...

I'm glad that it is much harder to sell crap these days ... be it media or hardware ... thanks to communities like HA or CDFreaks, people can get well-informed before they actually buy.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pio2001 on 2004-01-24 20:06:07
Good post, Jean-Luc !
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: mat128 on 2004-01-26 03:16:00
Media Manf. : Multi Media Masters & Marhinary SA
Recording Layer: Cyanine Material

CD-R labeled as:
NATURAL CD-R 700mb/80min Multispeed 48x
Aqua blue label.

REAL CRAP, I can perfectly burn (burner detects 24x max but burns at 16x max, internal protection I guess) but cannot read from these CDs, or I can read with like alot of problems using my best reader, others wont even read it.

Packed as a 50 cdr pack, for 20 Canadian dollars.

Picture if required.

Mat
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-01-28 20:04:07
Guys, I'm down ... I recently (maybe 6-9 months ago) burned some audio discs (all pop compilations with 76-80 minutes playing time) to TDK Speed-X 48x media (manufactured by TDK and still available) ...

TDK is believed to be a HQ manufacturer but look at these K-Probe scans ...

This one is totally messed up ...

(http://www.jeanlucpicard.org/pictures/tdk01.png)

This one is still readable ...

(http://www.jeanlucpicard.org/pictures/tdk02.png)

This one can only be read in the Plex Premium with C2 and "use C2" enabled in EAC 0.9B4 (no accurate rip possible, though the rip sounds fine to me)

(http://www.jeanlucpicard.org/pictures/tdk03.png)

This one can be read by the Premium in EAC (but without C2 at all) ...

(http://www.jeanlucpicard.org/pictures/tdk04.png)

All burns were carried out with a LiteOn LTR-52246S @ 16x CLV ... it seems that TDK has some serious problems at the end of these discs ... all of them (except no.2) are unreadable in plextools as well (they are read, but not without remaining CU errors being reported) ...

I'm baffled ...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: de Mon on 2004-01-28 21:41:15
Can anybody test Verbatim Pastel made by Taiyo Yuden just the green one? Better 32x. There were rumours that greens have high C1 level. My drive can't check C1 errors :-(.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: de Mon on 2004-01-28 21:44:22
By the way. Can anybody explain me who paints CD-Rs if brand and manufacturer are not the same? Mitsubishi or Taiyo Yuden?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: budgie on 2004-01-29 09:37:33
Since 1999 only two Platinum (I have just a few of them and all have the same problem) audio discs are rotting from the outer side and as they were recorded up to full capacity they show a lot of C2-errors. Still readable, though.

The golden Kodaks work just fine, no C2-errors. Most of them isn't marked, I just wrote the last four digits from the center on the paper inner sleeve for identification.

The rest is "too young to die" yet. But I use only good brands, i.e. Verbatim, Taiyo Yuden etc. I bought also 20 pcs of Dysan Audio CD-Rs and they sound great, just don't know, how long they last. As I have lossless backup of every piece of music, I just don't care...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pat-54 on 2004-02-21 18:16:08
Quote
As I have lossless backup of every piece of music, I just don't care...

I adopted this solution too, after many problems with CD-R reliability. I make lossless copies on my hard drive and use an internet online backup service to make offsite backup of these copies in case my hard drive would crash (or my house burglared ...).
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: music_man_mpc on 2004-02-21 20:51:42
Quote
I make lossless copies on my hard drive and use an internet online backup service to make offsite backup of these copies in case my hard drive would crash (or my house burglared ...).

How much would it cost to back up ~250Gb of data on the internet.    Not a practical solution for me I think.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: grbmusic on 2004-02-21 21:47:42
I have 400 CD-Rs and only died 3 since 1995, the 3 are Samsung 4X, from 1998, only 1 is still alive (I copy itt already). The recordable surface is green color. Sorry but I can't remember what  is the manufacturer.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pat-54 on 2004-02-21 23:05:34
Quote
How much would it cost to back up ~250Gb of data on the internet.     Not a practical solution for me I think.

250 Gb : yups!
I only have 30 Gig online : it costs me 3 euros per month (and i paid ~150 eur for the initial transfer).
If i had 250 Gig i think i would make a severe selection of the most valuable part to put on internet !
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Dr. TaaDow on 2004-02-24 13:35:02
hmm... what all programs can u use to test cdr's like that?

i have a few older maxell's that might be gettin' close to dying and i wanna run some tests to see if i need to back them up to dvdr now to be able to save the data
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: germanjulian on 2004-02-24 16:47:38
jeanLuc

I think you have a dodgy cdr writter. I will check some old cdr media tonight (3 years old) and I bet you I have hardly any c1 errors.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Dimension on 2004-03-07 10:34:35
The only CD-R's I've ever had die were in 1997-98.  I had a Philips 2X burner, and I used those $15 HP SureStore gold discs for stuff I cared about.  The gold media would shatter and flake off of the clear plastic if you dropped them on their edge, so they weren't that good, either.  Maxell was making awful CD-R's that were an extremely transparent green with a funny organic look to it.  I had several of them die within a couple days.

I bought nothing but Verbatim DLP's for a very long time, but these days I'll use anything that isn't completely generic and I haven't had anything die on me.

DVD-R quality seems to have started off about as bad as CD-R's.  I can't believe how much complete crap is being sold.  I've had great luck with Ritek G04's, but everything else besides TDK/Verbatim seems to be worthless.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Teej a.k.a T-Dj on 2004-03-09 01:39:27
Alright, I've read the topic, but still a bit unsure of myself     

What CD-Rs can I safely buy and know that they won't die on me? I'm talking like the actual label on the package that you see in the store.

I currently use Maxell CD-R Pros. They seem to have a blue dye. Bad? Good? Please advise
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: eagleray on 2004-03-09 01:56:25
I am not sure what to make of this.  CMC Magnetics has the greatest number of failures in this poll, but thati might be like asking what brand of car do you own that broke down?  Chances are that Fords and Chevys would leat the list because there are so many of them.

I have purchased CMC Magnetics CD-R's under the  Imation, TDK, HP and GQ (Fry'S) brands.  In fact, since thery don't tell you what is inside the package you have no way of knowing until you get home.  It just seems like CMC Magnetics is the dominant brand.  Try as I may, I never seem to wind up with anything else.  So it must be the Ford or Chevy of CD-R's.

By the way, I have had no problems with them.  I just ran a few quality tests using CD-Speed and there was not a C2 error on any of them regardless of which drive or recording software I used.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: odious malefactor on 2004-03-09 16:47:22
Quote
What CD-Rs can I safely buy and know that they won't die on me? I'm talking like the actual label on the package that you see in the store.

Look for Fujifilm brand "made in Japan" only. They are the Taiyo Yudens.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Teej a.k.a T-Dj on 2004-03-14 18:32:35
Quote
Quote
What CD-Rs can I safely buy and know that they won't die on me? I'm talking like the actual label on the package that you see in the store.

Look for Fujifilm brand "made in Japan" only. They are the Taiyo Yudens.

Great, thanks! Now to find a store that sells Fujifilm brand CD-Rs made in japan
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: odious malefactor on 2004-03-14 20:21:53
Quote
Great, thanks! Now to find a store that sells Fujifilm brand CD-Rs made in japan 


Yeah, it's a bit tricky. Sometimes Walgreens has 'em. Last time I found some at CompUSA, but only the 30 pack was made in Japan.

I guess your best bet is to buy Taiyo Yuden branded media online.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Teej a.k.a T-Dj on 2004-03-14 23:55:14
Quote
Quote
Great, thanks! Now to find a store that sells Fujifilm brand CD-Rs made in japan  


Yeah, it's a bit tricky. Sometimes Walgreens has 'em. Last time I found some at CompUSA, but only the 30 pack was made in Japan.

I guess your best bet is to buy Taiyo Yuden branded media online.

Actually, I found some today at WalMart. Fujifilm slim jewel case CD-Rs made in Japan. Thanks for your help
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: chis on 2004-04-02 17:33:31
Anyone else ever buy some "That's Write" discs?  I've had a few that - despite being well cared for - started skipping around in my Technics SL-P350 CD player (antique now, but still works after 12+ years), which rarely happens...

Anyway, all of the That's Write discs I have (bought in 2001-2002), started to discolour about a year ago.  I have unbranded discs bought at the same sort of time which are still silver!

I haven't looked into testing any of these - I have a Plextor and it came with a copy of Plextools but it's honestly not something I've ever really needed (or even tried).  Perhaps I should look into it...

As an aside, after having some bad experiences with TDK (having a HORRIBLE HP-8100 drive at the time didn't help - even after flashing with the hacked bios), I've been buying Sony CD-R's ever since, for important stuff.  The current batch I have are in 50 disc spindles with the part no. 50CDG80SP5A.  Indentifier and Nero say that these things are actually manufactured by Sony, and every disc I've burned has worked flawlessly.  Perhaps these might be a good option for those that can't get hold of Taiyo Yunden discs (like myself... anywhere reputable in the UK selling these cheap?).
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Cutter on 2004-04-05 18:58:00
Green Memorexes.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: dreamliner77 on 2004-04-05 19:27:21
^^ Let Me guess... CMC's?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Teej a.k.a T-Dj on 2004-04-11 16:57:51
Just thought I'd add that I checked the Maxell CD-R Pro disks with EAC, and it identified them as Taiyo Yudens aswell!
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: shafff on 2004-04-11 17:21:25
phillips (i payed for it $1.40*5.3)
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-04-11 19:40:09
Quote
Just thought I'd add that I checked the Maxell CD-R Pro disks with EAC, and it identified them as Taiyo Yudens aswell!

Be advised that Maxell sells two types of these discs ... I was unable to find any difference between the packages ... one is TY, the other is CMC ...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: dreamliner77 on 2004-04-11 21:50:29
just picked up some Memorex's from compusa that were Riteks.  First time I've seen Riteks as Memorex.  Lucky me, in the last month I've gotten TY and Ritek from Memorex.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Teej a.k.a T-Dj on 2004-04-12 03:04:05
Quote
Quote
Just thought I'd add that I checked the Maxell CD-R Pro disks with EAC, and it identified them as Taiyo Yudens aswell!

Be advised that Maxell sells two types of these discs ... I was unable to find any difference between the packages ... one is TY, the other is CMC ...

Really? Ouch.

I had two kinds of Maxell CD-R Pros both entirely different looking pakaging and disks (one had a blue top, the other one a gold one), but EAC identified both as TY. I'll have to watch out then.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: classj on 2004-04-19 10:38:04
A box of Lead Data (cyanine) discs sold as Memorex 700MB. Burned between 2 and 4 years ago, most of them are now becoming unplayable towards the end of the disc.

Also one Princo disc, branded Boeder 650MB, burned ~5 years ago, worked fine at first but now barely recognisable in most players (although still mostly readable in the drive it was burned in).

All the above burned in a Ricoh MP-7040A.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: user on 2004-04-20 13:25:38
Do we have already  a thread for bad DVD+/-R (RW) media, then this post should be moved, please ?

or maybe a new thread for dvd media ?

I have DVD writer NEC 1300 A with FW 1.08 (is it the latest?) and was really satisfied with DVD+R 4x speed from Ricoh 01/02 (or how they are labelled, could copy it from DVD-Identifier window,) so far.

Those Ricoh +R 4x speed were sold by several brands, ie. Philips sic !, the pack of Verbatim I bought, (German Aldi Medion), Platinum.

So, after my 5 packs trials and the surprise, that nearly every brand sold same Ricoh,
I bought a 25 spindle Platinum from local dealer.
All 25 discs were fine.
Then I bought those Platinum 25 from somebody at ebay.
These discs cause trouble at some files, which are burnt in the middle of the disc.
files burnt at begin, or end, are fine.
Most files check fine. But not some in a place lets say 1/3 -1/2 of possible space of the 4.7 GB.
These bad results were reproduceable, I made a direct comaprison file per file after nero burning.

The check against other media, ie. the same Ricoh label, but brand Medion from Aldi, a 5 pack, was successful, no bad files after burning.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: westgroveg on 2004-06-27 04:12:43
Quote
Do we have already  a thread for bad DVD+/-R (RW) media, then this post should be moved, please ?

or maybe a new thread for dvd media ?

The K-Probe Scan Repository (http://www.overseer.info/kprobe/) is a good place to vist for DVD+/-R(W) quality tests.

Scans are done using KProbe1/2 so if you own a Lite-on drive you can contribute,

(Overseer@SpeedLabs Inc.)
Quote
Accepting scans now. PNG scans take the least space so If you save them as PNG files then great but I will also accept jpg and bmp.

Scans will be placed on line as soon as possible. But I have everything up and running properly now, so send your scans in.

If you want there is a template on the site you can use to minimise the time used by me setting the page up, but I will gladly set them up if you dont/cant.

Also to help me place the correct info up when sending scans please provide this info:

*Your Nickname
*Brand of disk
*Media code (Manufacturer)
*Speed of disk
*+ or -
*Drive and what drive is OC to
*Firmware
*Patch Version
*Corresponding scan settings used for each kprobe scan.

RULES OF UPLOAD

1. Nothing that is Illegal!
2. K-Probe Scans in .png Format (can also be bmp/jpg)
3. Make a directory from your nickname eg Overseer directory would be named "overseer".
4. Place your .png images in the directory you have made.
5. To help me integrate them into the main site could you please place different lots of scans into a dif sub-directory eg. nickname/k1.. k2.. k3...
6. To also help me in intergrating them into the main site could you place a text file explaining the Media Used and some information about the drive used at the time eg. 411s@811s @ HSOK MKII.
7. Do not delete another persons files!

Enjoy People!


EMAIL YOUR SCANS AND INFO TO overseer@overseer.info


The quote is taken from speedlabs forums (http://www.speedlabs.org/).
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: DreamTactix291 on 2004-06-27 04:31:04
I guess I've just been fortunate.  Most of my discs are Memorex CD-Rs and I've yet to have one die minus bad scratching.  Anything I think is valuable though gets burned onto at least 2 CDs.  Can't be too careful.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: user on 2004-06-27 11:39:28
I solved the riddle easily, why my first Platinum DVD+R 4xspeed 25 spindle was fine, but not my following Platinum 25 spindle.

The fine Platinums were RicohJPN0102,
the bad Platinum DVD+R 4x media:  Ritek0102 !


Now i have Emtec (BASF) DVD+R 4x, a 25 spindle pack:
those are the fine RicohJPN0102  again,
and so not so surprisingly, the first written DVD checked ok.

Then I have some Verbatim DVD+R 4x in jewel case, the printable discs,
those are CMC , iirc as my check by dvdidentifier has shown.
Those checked fine, too, compare by bit content ok, but varying results by Nero tools cddvd speed read check.

iirc, Sony DVD+R 4x jewel case use CMC, too, and in past that medium checked ok for me, too.
edit addon:
I have read written by some german dvd experts, that the 25 pack spindle verbatim dvd+r 4x is normally CMC, and those aren't the best ?!  The Verbatim dvd+r MCC , Mitsubishi Chemicals, should be the best.
It might be confusing me, and I will check my Sony dvd+r later, if those were CMC or MCC.
Nevertheless, the current verbatim dvd+r 4x 25 pack spindle CMC, gave good result so far with my nec 1300a writer.
(well, reading ok, bit for bit, but after burning various DVDs, the nero tool speed check resulted to different results, some discs perfect reading, some discs readable (according to bit-to-bit-comparison, but the dvd drive had to slow down for reading in Nero-cd-dvd-speed-tool).


btw, according to recommended media list by NEC for my NEC 1300A:
Ricoh & MCC media...




Those pics at Kprobe page aren't easy to interpret?
I haven't invested a lot time to investigate. Is there a short precise description somewhere, how those scans can be interpreted ?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: CiTay on 2004-06-27 13:13:08
Quote
Those pics at Kprobe page aren't easy to interpret?
I haven't invested a lot time to investigate. Is there a short precise description somewhere, how those scans can be interpreted ?

Check the new c't magazine coming out on Monday, they compare different quality testing methods: "Audiodev CATS DVD pro" hardware analyzer, CD-DVD Speed 3.01 on Nu Tech DW-082, KProbe 2.1 on Lite-On SOHW-832S and Plextools Pro 2.14 on PX-708A.

The conclusion about KProbe is that it's not consistent. Depending on the drive (different Lite-On models) you get completely different results that don't match the hardware analyzer's reference.

With CD-DVD speed, the results are depending more on the read speed that on the actual write quality, and again it's inconsistent among different drives.

Only Plextools give a rough estimation about quality, although the curves don't match with the Audiodev ones, but at least you could differentiate good and bad burns. It downplays the amount of errors, though.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Bslazh on 2004-06-27 21:15:37
Hi!

I have KProbe tested 15 cd-r's burned from 1995 until now, and I get some interesting results. The ones that are more than 8 years old works just fine (but the green color is darker now I think). I tested the one that got worst results (189 C2 errors) in another program CD Check, and there it was no problem reading the full cd.

Well, if anyone is courius, here is the results... tests (http://home.swipnet.se/dc/temp/KProbe%20tests.zip)

(I ran xp in safe mode to get it to work right, but how much I tried, I couldn't read the manufacturer of any cd-r's I have, in either the LiteOn DVD-Rom or my Samsung CD burner... strange)
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: westgroveg on 2004-06-29 03:07:47
Quote
The conclusion about KProbe is that it's not consistent. Depending on the drive (different Lite-On models) you get completely different results that don't match the hardware analyzer's reference.


Can you post a scan of this review? Most tests at CD freaks, Speedlabs etc. show pretty consistent results of which media performs well & which doesn't even if PI/PO levels may vary slightly depending the drive/firmware. It maybe a good idea to scan a pressed DVD with your drive to use as a reference.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: CiTay on 2004-06-29 14:30:54
Quote
Can you post a scan of this review?

Sure, although it was more of a sidenote. The real test is about DVD+R double-layer burning at 2.4x (which works quite well) and conventional DVD+-R single-layer burning at 8x and above (which is a desaster).

Anyway, here are the graphs. Topmost is the reference scan of the Audiodev hardware analyzer, which is widely used in the industry. The red line is the PI Sum 8 limit, so you see that the third burned DVD is of even worse quality than the second one (different scale).

As for KProbe, you see that it shows a good quality for the first DVD, which is ok. It shows the second DVD as having bad quality, but the graph doesn't match the hardware tester. For the third burn, it attests a great quality, even though it's totally beyond spec in reality. Only with the Plextools you get a rough idea of the quality here.

[attachment=764:attachment]
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: PrinceTone on 2004-06-30 16:21:33
Anybody try MMobile Fidelity Sound Lab's new Ultradisc CD-R yet?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: westgroveg on 2004-07-06 02:28:06
I have some interesting results of CD-R's dating back as far as March 1995 which contradict some of PIO's results.
Will post ASAP.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: westgroveg on 2004-07-06 04:29:30
These are the oldest in my collection of CD-R's, they where burnt by a friend of mine in Argentina & I now have them in Australia they where stored in a humid environment while in Argentina & a hot environment while in Australia (never exposed to sunlight though) & they have no scratches (flawless). The only thing they have in common is they all have gold dye.

TDK (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/23003)

Mitsui_1 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/23004)

Mitsui_2 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/23005)

Mitsui_3 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/23006)

Princo (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/show.php/showtopic/23009)

King Pro Mediatek (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23190)

Ricoh (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23191)
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pio2001 on 2004-07-06 11:33:27
I've always got much better (though not prerfect) results with gold CDRs than silver.
The fact that my silver CDR got yellow proves that there was some SO2 attacking them, with light. If I'm not mistaken, silver turns yellow because of sulfur (can anyone confirm ?), and I've learned in school that silver can't turn yellow without light. If my problems, or a part of them, come from the metal, then keeping them in the dark would have improved their lifetime significantly.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: user on 2004-07-06 17:17:01
yes, if they really use Gold particles/surface for the pressing, it will be chemically more stable than compared to a silver surface.

Silver (Ag) can be attacked/oxidized by Sulfur, S. The result would be Silversulfid, something black, maybe in low concentrations/thin films on surfaces 'yellow-brownish'.

To initiate a chemical reaction, you need often somehow a starter, to overcome a certain energy barrier, which you could overcome in a lot reactions by light, as sunlight contains UV wavelengths, which are quite powerful.

If I think of CD-R with organic compounds layers for the data, which are written/burned by our CD-writer lasers, then you know immediately, that any sunlight, maybe other light sources, too, are poison to CD-R.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: be020261 on 2004-07-06 18:30:28
Mitsumi.

I've burn on many media, but these mitsumi are crap!  EAC cannot secure RIP from 3 months old CDR.  (I've burnt them myself, using EAC+CUE sheet)

I've lost several CDs with this scrap.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-07-06 18:52:17
Quote
I've always got much better (though not prerfect) results with gold CDRs than silver.
The fact that my silver CDR got yellow proves that there was some SO2 attacking them, with light. If I'm not mistaken, silver turns yellow because of sulfur (can anyone confirm ?), and I've learned in school that silver can't turn yellow without light. If my problems, or a part of them, come from the metal, then keeping them in the dark would have improved their lifetime significantly.

You aren't confusing silver with aluminum ?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pio2001 on 2004-07-06 21:28:26
From http://www.roxio.com/en/support/discs/cdrmfg.html (http://www.roxio.com/en/support/discs/cdrmfg.html)

Quote
There are four metals that are inert to polycarbonate and sufficiently reflective to be used as a reflective layer. These are gold, silver, copper, and aluminum. Aluminum is the most cost-efficient and most widely used for prerecorded pressed discs, but most CD-R discs use gold or silver because of their greater reflectivity. Since the translucent dye polymer layer reduces the amount of laser light that is reflected back from the disc, a highly reflective metal is desirable.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-07-23 05:31:10
I was just asking, because silver sulfide (Ag[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']2[/span]S) will turn black, not yellow - just try to eat an egg with a silver spoon. Silver Sulfite (AgSO[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']3[/span]), the most probable silver/sulphur combination in presence of SO[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']2[/span] might be of yellow colour but cannot be created without the presence of water (air humidity, along with the fact that polycarbonate can take up water up to 1,5 mass percent might be sufficient) to create H2SO3 wich might then corrode silver ...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: kotrtim on 2004-07-26 14:54:05
ITS TIME TO UPDATE THE LIST
checking back cd-rs burnt 3 yrs back

ops.....found out "plasmon" rotten
black spots appear.

the data is till recoverable but i don't the disc will stand any longer

Plasmon is one of the worst brand i'd ever seen

Plasmon CD-R loads 2 times slower than brands like ritek, acer, mitsubishi, prodisc
but its still better than CMC

pressed CD - ~3 sec
ritek, acer, mitsubishi, prodisc - ~4 sec
Plasmon ~ 8 sec
CMC magnetics ~ 24 sec
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: GoaTrancer on 2004-07-29 16:50:07
One cheaper class Maxell died on me a few days after burning. I still dont get how this could happen? There wasnt a single scratch on the cd.
And I wrote the disk at a safe speed of 8x, wierd.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: sergelac on 2004-09-24 04:32:48
Sony should be in Highest quality brands not Low quality brands.
i use High Speed Sony CD-RW (650 MB 4x-10x) and never have problems with them

one of them, i erase it and rewrite on it more than 25 times and it is still working perfectly


these are very good :
Kodak CD-R
Fujifilm CD-R 80
Verbatim


maxell are crap


my burner is YAMAHA CRW2100E 16x10x40
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Ashed on 2004-09-24 04:41:11
What about black CD-R's? Are they better than the gold ones?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: dreamliner77 on 2004-09-24 06:32:10
Quote
Sony should be in Highest quality brands not Low quality brands.
i use High Speed Sony CD-RW (650 MB 4x-10x) and never have problems with them

one of them, i erase it and rewrite on it more than 25 times and it is still working perfectly


these are very good :
Kodak CD-R
Fujifilm CD-R 80
Verbatim


maxell are crap


my burner is YAMAHA CRW2100E 16x10x40
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=244032"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


RW is a whole other beast than -R.  I think you will find that most people here use -r, and mostly for audio.  And of the brans you listed, with the exeption of Kodak, they could be anything.  You need the ATIP info.


Quote
What about black CD-R's? Are they better than the gold ones?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=244035"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

SHort answer.  No.  Might be better in some older readers, but in generally have lower reflectivity and are usually CMC.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: kotrtim on 2004-09-24 08:02:37
Quote
Sony should be in Highest quality brands not Low quality brands.


I can simply explain why,
The first Sony Manufactured CD-R I used is "Sony 700MB/80min Supremas"
          Very bad CD-R
my writer Artec WRR-52 refuses to write more than 74min on this media, and the speed is restircted to 40X and below

Sony CD-RW 4x-10x....650MB, are you sure they are sony?,
i think they are rebranded Mitsubishi disc, that's why they are good.
Almost all the 650MB CD-RW are Mitsubishi... I don't see any other manufacturer produce 650MB CDRW.

Verbatim's CD-R are marginal to good CD-R
"DataLifePlus (Azo)" are the best of Verbatim, they use Mitsubishi Chemical Corp. dye
"Datalife Pastel" are the best of verbatim too! they are Taiyo Yuden

DataLife/Valulife........Be careful! they are CMC!

I've seen many bad reports about CMC, but i found out that Imation CMC are quite good!
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pio2001 on 2004-09-24 11:24:33
It depends if they are Datalife Plus Super Azo or Datalife Plus Metal Azo. Metal Azo is the old traditional dark blue Verbatim. Super Azo are the new ones optimized for high speed. However, they have problems at... high speed !
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Pio2001 on 2004-09-24 11:27:24
Quote
What about black CD-R's? Are they better than the gold ones?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=244035"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Black CDRs can be silver or gold. It's the plastic that is black. The silver ones that I got, from HiSpace, were manufactured by MPO. They had some C2 errors right after burning and quickly died. I don't remember who manufactred the Memorex ones, but for me they were worse.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: sergelac on 2004-09-26 20:26:53
What about panasonic and verbatim dvd-ram
are they good quality brands ?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: weaker on 2004-09-28 17:09:43
Hi,
after I occasionally found this thread, I decided to join the party:

Recently I have reburned some 4+ year old CD-Rs due to read errors. I kept the originals though. So I fired up CDRidentifier and here are the results: (They fit quite nicely with the list at the beginning)

The worst of all CDs with lots of C2 and quite some CU errors was... CMC Magnetics (guessed that?  )
Next worst was LeadData, directly followed by AMS Technologies (never heard of them). Those AMS discs were sold under the Tevion/Lifetec brand in german supermarket chain ALDI.
Another disk I backed up (more out of fear that all my old CDs are crap now) was a Ritek but it was still perfectly readable (6,3avg/40max C1,no C2 or CU).

All discs (except one) were burnt with an old trusty PX-820i SCSI burner. They were stored in jewelcases (and therefore dark) under normal environmental conditions (not like Pio's )

greets,
weaker
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: GeSomeone on 2004-10-05 21:38:25
Another (near) dead CD-R, it contained an Audio-CD. It still plays in the stand anlone player, has big problems any computer drive.
Lots of C2 errors in Nero Speedtest
This was a Traxdata Silver (80min) burned end of 1999
ATIP info from disk
ATIP start of lead out:    79:59:74  (sector: 359999)
Manufacturer code:          97 31 00 - Ritek Co.  (Type: 0)
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: cerberus on 2004-10-07 15:04:46
Ty are the best for me and play in "any" cdplayer.
I have TY  with 10 years +- sold as philips x4 and still impecable.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Halcyon on 2004-10-08 10:17:23
If you have failed discs that have also changed looks (visual impairments like color defects, pinholes, etc), then please post a picture here if you can.

I'm also interested in high resolution images (pictures) of failed discs.

You can send them to me via e-mail if you want: halcy at tiscali dot fi.

Cheers,
halcyon
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2004-10-12 16:47:11
Quote
Those AMS discs were sold under the Tevion/Lifetec brand in german supermarket chain ALDI.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=245076"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


These were the older 650 MB types they sold @ Aldi before switching to 700MB RITEK, right ?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Halcyon on 2004-10-14 18:03:49
On a more positive note:

I just scanned a batch of Kodak Infoguard Gold (no speed rating) CD-R discs burned between 1993-1999.

All of them read back with very few C1 errors (on both LiteOn and Plextor drives) and no c2 errors at all.

So, using quality media, it is possible to get to the 10 year mark with data in tact, if the media is stored/handled properly.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: westgroveg on 2004-10-14 22:52:08
Quote
On a more positive note:

I just scanned a batch of Kodak Infoguard Gold (no speed rating) CD-R discs burned between 1993-1999.

All of them read back with very few C1 errors (on both LiteOn and Plextor drives) and no c2 errors at all.

So, using quality media, it is possible to get to the 10 year mark with data in tact, if the media is stored/handled properly.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=247770"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Halcyon, do you think you could provide some scans?

I would attribute their long life due to the gold contained, not the media brand. If you check my list of old CD-R's scans I have a low quality brand (Princo) & it has lasted 7 years with no C2 errors.

What I would really like to see is 10+ years from non gold Kodak media, as I remember silver Kodak's where reported to be troublesome, that's why I bumped Kodak down on the quality rating list.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: alfa156 on 2005-03-10 17:36:00
never again princo
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Jojo on 2005-03-10 18:31:32
Quote
never again princo
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=281036"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

yep. The Sony ones suck too. For instance, the Sony Supremas 700MB are not useable for Data stored after the 74 Minutes mark...I burned some 690 MB rar archive on it and right after burning the archive was already corrupt...how can they sell such CD's as 700MB blanks? That's fraud...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: kotrtim on 2005-03-12 16:28:36
Quote
I burned some 690 MB rar archive on it and right after burning the archive was already corrupt...how can they sell such CD's as 700MB blanks?


Your burner is good enough to be able to burn up to 80min......My burner stops at 74 min mark!!
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: somehow on 2005-05-08 22:57:14
As unbelievable as it may seem, all my dark blue Verbatim DataLife Plus Metal AZO CD-Rs (rated up to 16x speed) are defective! I've read some reports that these disc were rotting away from the outer edge inwards. It was imputed to bad insulation of the dye. Allegedly, sweat from one's fingertips eventually got in contact with it and the rotting began.

I bought a Plextor PX-716A and started to randomly scan some older CD-Rs to see in what shape they are. Luckily, all the few Imation/CMC CD-Rs I have were more than okay, which can't be said about some Prodisc ("Intenso") and noname ("Bestmedia") discs that were nearly completely dead. But then came the real surprise...

The typical scan of a Verbatim Metal AZO disc is as follows (both images are from the same scan, just the scale is different):

(http://somehow.wz.cz/verbatim_metal_azo_c1_c2_4x_scale_50.png)

(http://somehow.wz.cz/verbatim_metal_azo_c1_c2_4x_scale_2000.png)

The first half of the disc is perfectly fine, but then a real catastrophe comes. Here are the numbers (average - max - total):
C1: 91.8 - 1438.0 - 385713.0
C2: 0.7 - 41.0 - 2894.0
CU: 0.0 - 1.0 - 9.0

The scan was executed on a PX-716A with firmware version 1.06 at 4x CLV speed. It goes without saying that it gets only worse when reading faster (C2 total raised to 4843, CU to 73 when reading 10-24x CAV). I've also tried to read the data from the end of the disc in a Toshiba DVD-ROM and an older Plextor CD-RW. No luck. And this is in fact one of the better discs...

If the reason lies really in bad separation of dye, one would expect it would be only a matter of one lot or one production facility. But all my Metal AZO discs are afected! There are both discs marked as 8x and as 16x speed, with different designs, from different countries (Taiwan, Ireland). All the discs were recorded on Plextor and Yamaha drives at reasonable speeds, stored in jewel cases in standing position at room temperature and are in perfect shape -- absolutely no scratches or fingerprints, no abrasive cleaning whatsoever. The oldest disc is about 6 years (maybe more), the newest around 3 years old.

No signs of problems with the green Super AZO follow-ups (24x+ speed) so far. But this really pisses me off and completely destroys my trust in the Verbatim brand. Probably the only brand I can still rely on is Taiyo Yuden. Taiyo Yudens with golden reflection layers (3M CD-Rs, some unrated, some 4x speed) are probably the oldest CD-Rs I have (along with golden Kodaks) and they are still in an absolutely perfect shape (in fact in better shape than some newer discs). Now I will have to go through my whole archive and try to save all I can from these Metal AZO discs. And I can only hope that newer Verbatim CD-Rs and DVD-Rs aren't going to end in a similar fashion. Maybe I wouldn't like to risk that and reburn the data to Taiyo Yuden DVD-Rs...

If anyone have some Verbatim Metal AZO discs, PLEASE run an error check on them and post your results.

For me, the most horrible finding is that Verbatim still manufactures and sells these same discs as "CD-R for Audio" as the Metal AZO dye performs better on lower recording speeds than contemporary ones. But I doubt that anything has changed in the dye formula. "100 years archival life" they say on the inlay... Is that just a vicious joke?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: sTisTi on 2005-05-09 13:40:16
Quote
As unbelievable as it may seem, all my dark blue Verbatim DataLife Plus Metal AZO CD-Rs (rated up to 16x speed) are defective! I've read some reports that these disc were rotting away from the outer edge inwards. It was imputed to bad insulation of the dye. Allegedly, sweat from one's fingertips eventually got in contact with it and the rotting began.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=296171")

Is there a visual sign of this "rotting"? Or do they look perfectly normal? Maybe you can scan a typical example and post it here.

Quote
Probably the only brand I can still rely on is Taiyo Yuden.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=296171"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, if I tell you about my horrible experiences with rotting Taiyo Yuden discs, you may think again . Take a look at [a href="http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=117995]this CDFreaks thread[/url]. I think there's no brand that is absolutely trustworthy with regard to data integrity, though I tend to trust Verbatim Data Life Plus more than anything else. I always burn important data twice on discs from two different manufacturers. I have hundreds of Super Azo discs which are all OK AFAIK. I also have a few 16x Metal Azo discs, one of which I scanned recently, and it turned out just fine.
If you burn on DVD, there's less chance of dye layer oxidation AFAIK because the discs are constructed differently. However, I am not sure if actual DVD dye stability is as good as with CD dyes. E.g., there are no phthalocyanine dyes in DVD-R  media, just metal stabilized Azo and cyanine. Under extreme conditions (heat, humidity), phthalocyanine dyes are supposed to be more stable, especially when combined with a gold reflective layer.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: HbG on 2005-05-09 14:42:43
Platinum (Princo). Never again.

I've also got some That's Write's failing (who manufactures them?), but they have been burned 7 years ago.

Burning MMore now.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: kotrtim on 2005-05-09 16:45:03
That's should be Taiyo Yuden

Quote
If anyone have some Verbatim Metal AZO discs, PLEASE run an error check on them and post your results.


Somehow, Is your Verbatim disc White coated?
I have a Verbatim Metal Azo 8X which is manufactured in 1998 and I burnt it in 2004:D
There are still in perfect condition! Maybe you are unlucky to have always got the worse batch of verbatim? Or maybe the region you are residing is too poluted?

Have a Yamaha Disc t@2 (MetalAzo) with me which is also white top too
-scratched
-fingerprints

Yeah, still OK, there are a few spots where the silver reflector is oxidised
But the dye is still blue in color even though the silver protective layer is oxidised.

My RiTek discs are also rotting, they rote, the dye turn black too!

So the conclution I can make is Mitsubishi dye is strong against oxidation but the disc is not sealed properly until the silver layer is exposed to the air? Because even how stable or good the dye is, if the silver layer is gone, the data is also gone as there is no reflective layer to reflect the laser

The newer Verbatim SuperAzo has a more convincing metallic top coat, it looks stronger than the older white coat
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: de Mon on 2005-05-09 18:20:16
Two years ago somewhere I read about Metal Azo. Some people compared Metal Azo with Super Azo and some other good CD-Rs. One of the tests included long UV light exposition. And the peculiarity of Metal Azo's consisted in impossibility to endure against UV light even several days while Super Azo and others could stay 1-3 monthes.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: sTisTi on 2005-05-09 19:03:18
Quote
Two years ago somewhere I read about Metal Azo. Some people compared Metal Azo with Super Azo and some other good CD-Rs. One of the tests included long UV light exposition. And the peculiarity of Metal Azo's consisted in impossibility to endure against UV light even several days while Super Azo and others could stay 1-3 monthes.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=296366")

A nice read with regard to media longevity is NIST's [a href="http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/gipwog/StabilityStudy.pdf] Stability Comparison of Recordable Optical Discs[/url]. Result: Super AZO and cyanine dyes were the big losers while most phthalocyanine discs proved remarkably stable.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Clemech on 2005-11-28 19:14:13
Quote
Quote
Two years ago somewhere I read about Metal Azo. Some people compared Metal Azo with Super Azo and some other good CD-Rs. One of the tests included long UV light exposition. And the peculiarity of Metal Azo's consisted in impossibility to endure against UV light even several days while Super Azo and others could stay 1-3 monthes.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=296366")

A nice read with regard to media longevity is NIST's [a href="http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/gipwog/StabilityStudy.pdf] Stability Comparison of Recordable Optical Discs[/url]. Result: Super AZO and cyanine dyes were the big losers while most phthalocyanine discs proved remarkably stable.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=296373"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Not good news for those of us with lots of Verbatim Super Azos... Fortunately I keep mine in the dark out of hot temperatures.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: JeanLuc on 2005-11-28 20:33:38
Quote
A nice read with regard to media longevity is NIST's Stability Comparison of Recordable Optical Discs (http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/gipwog/StabilityStudy.pdf). Result: Super AZO and cyanine dyes were the big losers while most phthalocyanine discs proved remarkably stable.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=296373"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yes ... although Verbatim's older Metal Azo is among the best media ever made (regarding jitter/BLER) it is not the best idea to take them in your car ...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Megaman on 2006-01-18 03:11:17
I recorded many Verbatim DataLife Plus Metal Azo (the old deep blue bottom, white top kind) back then in 2000-2001. I´m having problems with a couple of them, can´t read some sectors. I thought it was because of my old CD-RW unit but checked on newer equipment and can´t read those sectors either. Visually the discs are in pristine condition, I tried cleaning them but nothing happens.

The discs came in individual, sealed jewel case, not in a spindle. I regarded these discs as the most reliable at that time. Ironically on the back of the jewel case you can read "100 years archival life". Heh.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Oge_user on 2006-02-14 16:45:43
Just lost 2 Verbatim (coloured, 700MB, like these (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/192/verbatim700greenmitsubishiboxs.jpg)) from 2002.

I inserted the CDRs until the drive recognized them and the folder structure was damaged; often they're not recognized. If I can, I'll post the Nero CD Speed test. With these 2 Verbatim disc, I had 4 CDRs from 2001-2002 gone in the last months.

No scratches, no sun exposition, I used to read these discs rarely. My fear is that the other Verbatim CDRs will follow this end...very bad
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: user on 2006-02-16 11:14:43
which ID have those "Verbatims" ? Does nero-tool tell it ?
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Oge_user on 2006-02-16 16:36:49
I can't access to them: most of the times the drive doesn't recognize the CDRs...I'll try to post the ID if I can
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: joschy on 2006-03-11 12:15:26
Quote
I have ~2 year old Memorex (CMC) discs that have unrecoverable C2 errors around the end of the disc.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=174667"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: outscape on 2006-04-02 08:07:14
Quote
I recorded many Verbatim DataLife Plus Metal Azo (the old deep blue bottom, white top kind) back then in 2000-2001. I´m having problems with a couple of them, can´t read some sectors. I thought it was because of my old CD-RW unit but checked on newer equipment and can´t read those sectors either. Visually the discs are in pristine condition, I tried cleaning them but nothing happens.

The discs came in individual, sealed jewel case, not in a spindle. I regarded these discs as the most reliable at that time. Ironically on the back of the jewel case you can read "100 years archival life". Heh.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357949"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

there are many reasons why your cdrs degrade, sometimes it's environmental issues such as storage in damp areas that can have an effect the media. generally the mitsubishi verbatim are known for quality but as always take the 100 years of archival reliability with a grain of salt. the only brand that has not disappointed me is taiyo yuden, i have their discs and some are nearly 10 years old and still work perfectly. not only they work but the error rate when new is the lowest in the industry and they've been very compatible with all my writers.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: satorippoi on 2006-04-02 13:08:48
Well, Verbatim Pastel = Taiyo Yuden, right?..

As far as i know, Taiyo Yuden manufactures discs for Verbatim...here is the test...

     
Code: [Select]
  Drive Type = DVD DUAL 
        Disc Type = CDR
         Material = Cyanine
          Lead In = 97:24:01
         Lead Out = 79:59:72
 Nominal Capacity = 702.83MB
Manufacturer Maybe = Taiyo Yuden Company Limited
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 40X (Write)


This is my latest Verbatim Pastel, came in slim case each...
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Jimmy The Clam on 2006-05-20 00:16:49
Other (please post):

HP CDR 48X
80min / 700MB

Silver

Aluminum layer degraded to clear after 3.5 years.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Wombat on 2006-05-20 00:47:26
Something not completely different.
Deutsche Grammophon - Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker - Les Préludes, Die Moldau...
One of the early "DDD" recordings bought 1984.
CD-Player gives a big ERROR. Some CD-Roms even don´t recognize this CD as such. Some drives can read the TOC and NO drive gets even near to read any audio data. No real scratches.
One of my rare CDs in my collection i will never get back with ease
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: 2Bdecided on 2006-07-04 15:11:39
I hoped I'd never have to visit this thread, but...

disc says:
FUJIFILM 1-24x CD-R 650MB
FPL05B 001 CD-R 650MB

case says: Made in Germany.

Visibly, from the front, you can see that the silver disc has started to turn cold around the outside edge. The recording surface is silver with a hint of green. The disc was burned 1/11/2002, and was probably bought a week before, 10 for £4 which seemed a bargain at the time.

Tested using Nero CD Speed (though the info screen won't update, so I can't report the "real" manufacturer)

C2 Errors:
Total: 36575559
Minimum: 0
Maximum: 151702
Average: 9306.76

CD speed produces a very pretty graph, showing the C2 errors increasing smoothly from 0 starting at 42 minutes in, to 50000 by the end. There are also spikes of higher error rates.

The ScanDisc tool shows some yellow, and some red blocks.

In windows, the files nearer the start of the disc read fine, while those towards the end don't.

I think windows gives up at the first sign of a C2 error. As these are mainly text files, it would be nice to be able to read through these and get off what I can. If anyone has any data recovery tips, please post / link!

I'm adding this post in the hope that it prompts someone out there to check their Fujifilm CD-Rs and make a back up before it's too late!

(FWIW I have other, older Fujifilm CD-Rs, with a light blue recording surface, no "Made in..." to identify them, which seem fine. Unfortunately, I have a lot of discs like the one above. If my life hadn't moved on so much, I think I'd be crying at the loss of all this!)




Something not completely different.
Deutsche Grammophon - Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker - Les Préludes, Die Moldau...
One of the early "DDD" recordings bought 1984.
CD-Player gives a big ERROR. Some CD-Roms even don´t recognize this CD as such. Some drives can read the TOC and NO drive gets even near to read any audio data. No real scratches.
One of my rare CDs in my collection i will never get back with ease


Wombat,

It wasn't manufactured by PDO was it?

If so, and it has rotted, they'll replace it for you...

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/bronzed.asp (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/bronzed.asp)

...unfortunately I think your disc is too early for this to be the problem.

(btw, Hyperion, who provide the above information, make some fantastic recordings - well worth a try).

Cheers,
David.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Wombat on 2006-07-04 16:05:41
Wombat,

It wasn't manufactured by PDO was it?

If so, and it has rotted, they'll replace it for you...

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/bronzed.asp (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/bronzed.asp)

...unfortunately I think your disc is too early for this to be the problem.

(btw, Hyperion, who provide the above information, make some fantastic recordings - well worth a try).

Cheers,
David.

No it wasn´t. Polydor 1984 "Made in U.K." 413587-2
I have a Sgt. Pepper´s pressing that is showing this bronzing effect. Parlophone CDP 7 46442 2 and again "Made in U.K."
I bought it in 1987. It still hasn´t reached the music data and rips still fine.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: 2Bdecided on 2006-07-04 16:21:12
Polydor 1984 "Made in U.K." 413587-2
I have a Sgt. Pepper´s pressing that is showing this bronzing effect. Parlophone CDP 7 46442 2 and again "Made in U.K."
I bought it in 1987. It still hasn´t reached the music data and rips still fine.


I have a 1987 Parlophone disc (Pet Shop Boys) where the label (i.e. the printing!) just washed off when I tried to wash some finger prints off! Sgt Pepper seems fine though.

btw (if I didn't make it clear before - you probably realised already though), PDO isn't the label - it's the disc manufacturer. You have to look carefully at the writing in the silver around the centre - sometimes only visible from the underside of the disc. PDO made discs for many people during the affected period, and it sounds like they may all rot in the end.

Cheers,
David.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Wombat on 2006-07-04 16:41:52
I looked everywhere before but found no PDO so i transmitted the ident numbers.

Cheers!
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: dreamliner77 on 2006-07-04 17:53:49
David,

You might want to try Isobuster to see if you can get any data off that disc.  Also, there is a program similar to EAC for data cd's, but I'd be damned, I can't find it.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: 2Bdecided on 2006-07-11 12:24:45
You might want to try Isobuster to see if you can get any data off that disc.


Thanks - that worked well. I'll use it on all the others ASAP!

Cheers,
David.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Wombat on 2006-07-31 20:52:40
Just some Info about my "Deutsche Grammophon - Karajan" CD. I sent it back to "Deutsche Grammophon (EBS)" and got the reply that all discs of these years of their line made in U.K. have these problems due to the manufacturing.
My special release isn´t available anymore but they offer me a replacement out of their actual program.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: MedO on 2006-08-09 13:26:21
I recommend not to buy "Gut&Günstig"-CDRs. Gut&Günstig is a cheap brand in some german supermarkets like Edeka. I just bought a pack, kprobe reported the manufacturer as "Moser Baer India limited". I burned two of them on two different drives, and read them back. Both showed C2 errors. When I tried reading one CD in the other drive, it had trouble reading the CD at all. C1 error count was around 8.5 average (Ritek gives an average of ~1.0).

To the TY discussion: I have two old Tayo Yuden CDRs, (both around 10 years old), and both have lower C1 error count than most of the Riteks I burned last week.

Edit: I found out it probably wasn't a problem with the media but with the second drive that gave trouble when reading these CDs. The error counts stand though.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Andrea on 2006-08-09 14:57:42
IPC, is a brand made in Argentina. No wonder
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Be Positive on 2006-10-14 11:48:23
I recommend not to buy SKY Recordable Discs.. I used to use them for digital audio storage about 2 years ago. I couldn't read them any more even a few weeks after burning. I can't find out who's the manufactor for them, because my drives don't notice a disc in drive.

It's Sky DVD+r (blank Disc with blue script and blue inner circle) and CD-R.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: Artie on 2006-11-27 02:30:18
Unfortunately, I clicked on "Other" before I downloaded the Nero Cd tool, and realized that my "Dysan's" were actually Ritek's. Fortunately, I only bought one 10-pack, of which maybe 2 still work.

On a related note, I've had real bad luck with Office Depot branded CD's. They show up under Nero as "unknown". After a fairly short time, (maybe a year), the entire data coating will flake off. You can hold the data medium in one hand and a clear plastic disc in the other. Amazing.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: outscape on 2006-11-27 03:33:34
haha i've always knew office place and staples had shit quality media, at least recently. so shit that even the manufacturer wants to remain anonymous.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: dreamliner77 on 2006-11-27 04:29:34
On a related note, I've had real bad luck with Office Depot branded CD's. They show up under Nero as "unknown". After a fairly short time, (maybe a year), the entire data coating will flake off. You can hold the data medium in one hand and a clear plastic disc in the other. Amazing.


I've used Office Max branded Moser Baer DVD+R that consistantly give quality scores of 98 in CDSpeed.  Also, i picked up some Office Depot (Ritek D01) DVD+R Dual Layer that is giving QS scores of 95.  I've also got decent quality CDR's for Office Max and Staples.  Store branded media is not always bad, you just have to know what to look for.
Title: R.I.P.
Post by: cautiousman on 2008-01-01 20:42:05
Sony and Memorex CD-Rs have been nothing but trouble for me.  Always get errors and skips with those.  Never had a problem with TDKs.
Title: Re: R.I.P.
Post by: apastuszak on 2017-08-19 18:35:22
A number of companies used to make (probably some still do) "archival" CD-Rs that were gold and supposed to last for 100 years.

Anyone ever use these?  Were they worth the extra money?
Title: Re: R.I.P.
Post by: 2tec on 2017-08-20 16:44:02
A number of companies used to make (probably some still do) "archival" CD-Rs that were gold and supposed to last for 100 years.
If you mean these ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

Yes, I've used them, and yes, they are more durable, however, they never really caught on and the drives and media are more expensive and hard to source.  I'd say unless you need to use an optical drive in a harsh environment for extended periods or you're storing important and static data for archival purposes, they're probably not worth the trouble.
SimplePortal 1.0.0 RC1 © 2008-2018