Hydrogenaudio Forums

Hydrogenaudio Forum => Polls => Topic started by: IgorC on 2020-09-25 00:45:44

Poll
Question: What lossy format(s) do you use on a *regular* basis?
Option 1: AAC or HE-AAC v1/v2 (.m4a, .aac…)
Option 2: LossyWAV + lossless (.lossy.flac, .lossy.wv, .lossy.tak…)
Option 3: MP3 (.mp3)
Option 4: Musepack (.mpc)
Option 5: Ogg Vorbis (.ogg)
Option 6: Opus (.opus)
Option 7: WavPack Lossy/Hybrid (.wv)
Option 8: xHE-AAC (USAC)
Option 9: I don't really use any lossy codec on a regular basis
Title: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2020-09-25 00:45:44
  Hi,

What lossy format(s) do you use on a *regular* basis?

Now there is also  a new xHE-AAC encoder, exhale, so let's see how it goes.

 :)

The results over the years:
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2020-09-25 02:19:53
Yay! It`s that time of the year again! (for me to change my vote for a completely different format from last year, the year before and so on...)  :D
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: synclagz on 2020-09-25 09:44:27
I'm using WavPack lossy -b450hh. High quality, very fast encoding.
Considering affordable 256/512 GB mSD cards, I don't need to go into lossy 128-256k zone anymore. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2020-09-25 10:40:11
Been having good luck with Lame MP3 at V3 and Wavpack hybrid at 384kbps with DNS, So i picked MP3. Would pick xHE AAC/USAC but nothing on Android supports it?.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: LithosZA on 2020-09-25 12:05:18
It doesn't seem to allow multiple selections?
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: synclagz on 2020-09-25 12:48:20
Would pick xHE AAC/USAC but nothing on Android supports it?.

ExoPlayer on Android should play xHE AAC. ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2020-09-25 13:35:28
Would pick xHE AAC/USAC but nothing on Android supports it?.

ExoPlayer on Android should play xHE AAC. ;)

And it needs basic coding to even work, Which is way more effort for when i can just stick with Lame/lossy WV?.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2020-09-25 15:18:11
It doesn't seem to allow multiple selections?
 
 Blame it on the forum script.

It's always (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=115721.msg955177#msg955177)* been like that.

Edit: Being the CODEC hoppers most of us are (myself included), I think - for clarity's sake - it's best we don't get to pick 3 or 4 different formats as it'd probably be my case, at least.  :D

* That is, for this forum script.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Alexxander on 2020-09-25 16:59:06
Since several years I use AAC with Apple encoder, but I would use Opus if my car multimedia player would support it.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Heliologue on 2020-09-25 17:23:11
My music collection is FLAC where possible, excepting for some rarities only available in MP3 or some audiobooks, but I transcode to Opus (96-128kbps) for portable use.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ajp9 on 2020-09-25 22:50:50
Despite how much I use Vorbis today for quality encoding at higher bit rates, Opus is still the codec I use the most because it continues to work so well for general content around 128 kbps.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2020-09-26 06:36:56
Yeah. Outside of MP3, Opus is king at 96kbps since it can handle quite heavy samples.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: hardrain on 2020-09-26 10:34:50
I've transcoded everything including mp3s to opus and now all my music fits in my phone.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Mark7 on 2020-09-26 14:19:19
i did not vote because i use many:
- 320kbps 5.1 aac for movies (ripbot264 uses fraunhofer encoder)
- Qaac tvbr 36 mono for audiobooks.
- Mp3 -V2 (replaygain adjusted) in my car.
- Musepack Q5 for music on my phone and rockbox mp3player. It sounds great and has a higher lowpass at lower bitrate compared to qaac tvbr 91.

I don't use oggvorbis. I find artifacts more annoying than codecs above.
I'm not using Opus because of bad replaygain support and the 48khz samplerate.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Arlong13 on 2020-09-26 15:18:46
I use aac from itunes at 320 kbps
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2020-09-26 17:12:03
@IgorC‍ , I believe you came up some time ago with some charts for the polls' results , but I just put the percentages from the last 6 years or so (couldn't find 2015) through their paces on a spreadsheet indicating their trendlines (for the "most popular" four) as well as "market share"*.

* We know well these polls should be taken for what they are: a snapshot of what some of us HA freaks have been up to in the lossy front, nothing else.

No surprises then as to what CODEC`s adoption seems to have been growing steadily since its inception!

(https://i.imgur.com/PLOoBG5.png)
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2020-09-26 20:37:39
For more than one codec i use

Home ~ Lame V0/320kbps if i can't find anything lossless.

DAP/Phone ~ Vorbis at 160kbps, Been doing more ABX can't tell 99% of the time. AAC/MP3 can't stand there artifacts on electronic/metal.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: marko41297 on 2020-09-27 14:20:48
Imo, everything except the MP3 is useless for music.
MP3s encoded using LAME with V2 preset are transparent, have great size and work everywhere.
I also used to encode to multiple formats but it became very hard organizing separate libraries so I decided to use MP3 only.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2020-09-27 20:06:01
@IgorC‍ , I believe you came up some time ago with some charts for the polls' results , but I just put the percentages from the last 6 years or so (couldn't find 2015) through their paces on a spreadsheet indicating their trendlines (for the "most popular" four) as well as "market share"*.
Nice graph.  And yes, we haven't made a poll in 2015.

* We know well these polls should be taken for what they are: a snapshot of what some of us HA freaks have been up to in the lossy front, nothing else.
Yes, absolutely
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2020-09-27 20:55:10
Imo, everything except the MP3 is useless for music.
MP3s encoded using LAME with V2 preset are transparent, have great size and work everywhere.
I also used to encode to multiple formats but it became very hard organizing separate libraries so I decided to use MP3 only.

Lame starts to be transparent at V3 which moved to, I just use Lossy WV at 384kbps(DNS) to cover stuff MP3 can't handle at V0, Or vbr 256k Helix MP3. MP3 being constantly first place in these polls seem to back that up, It really is the music version of JPEG. 
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Max9000 on 2020-09-27 22:25:35
...MP3 can't stand there artifacts on electronic/metal.
MP3's can really make a noise if the input sample rate is too high for the file size. 
I've experimented with PPHS >32000 resample (tops out at 16khz, still beats FM radio), prior to MP3 VBR encodes. 
At least it does make the smaller file sizes work without as many artifacts. 

I've only recently found out about it, but have needed that clue for at least a decade. 
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2020-09-28 00:52:10
@IgorC‍ , I believe you came up some time ago with some charts for the polls' results , but I just put the percentages from the last 6 years or so (couldn't find 2015) through their paces on a spreadsheet indicating their trendlines (for the "most popular" four) as well as "market share"*.
  Nice graph.  And yes, we haven't made a poll in 2015.

* We know well these polls should be taken for what they are: a snapshot of what some of us HA freaks have been up to in the lossy front, nothing else.
  Yes, absolutely
 
 Glad you liked it. I've just noticed where it reads 'Lossy WV' (second codec from the right) I should have written (for clarity's sake), 'Wavpack lossy' instead. 

Well, maybe next year?  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2020-09-28 07:39:46
...MP3 can't stand there artifacts on electronic/metal.
MP3's can really make a noise if the input sample rate is too high for the file size. 
I've experimented with PPHS >32000 resample (tops out at 16khz, still beats FM radio), prior to MP3 VBR encodes. 
At least it does make the smaller file sizes work without as many artifacts. 

I've only recently found out about it, but have needed that clue for at least a decade. 
Never had that issue, i hate how helix MP3 only can take 16 bit in put. For voice ABR 80kbps still sounds great.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: weFF on 2020-09-28 08:27:21
For many many years ive been using ACC. Looks like nothing better is made, atleast for me.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: dkg on 2020-09-29 04:49:44
I've been a vorbis user since early beta days.  My library currently breaks down like this:
Vorbis - 76.6%
MP3 - 23.0%
The odd Opus or AAC accounts for the rest.  I'd prefer the vorbis % was higher, really, but a lot of MP3 has crept in over the years.  Anything from CD is ripped as FLAC and coverted to vorbis for regular use.  For any artist that I really care about, it's CDs or lossy downloads.  I would have transitioned to opus, if only my car supported it natively (as it does vorbis).
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2020-10-09 15:05:24
Added Graph to OP (the results over the years).
Thanks to includemeout and kode54. 
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: amarin on 2020-10-21 12:58:54
Opus 50%
40% acc and rest is mp3 :(
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: clintb on 2020-10-21 18:42:14
AAC at various bitrates, depending on use case.

96 Kbps for my GFs Garmin watch.
128 Kbps for tablets that are way down the list for listening on.
144 Kbps for our mobile phones.
160 Kbps for my DAPs that are used for corded headphone usage and lots more power to drive headphones.

Based on Guru's latest 128 Kbps test, I should probably cut out 160 and possibly even 144.

I tried going with Opus and it works fantastically, but I didn't want the potential headache of Opus being transcoded for use over Bluetooth to AAC enabled headphones. And, with AAC working so well down to 128 Kbps, why have yet another one in the mix.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: pr0m3th3u5 on 2020-10-22 15:50:38
Looks like OPUS is on quite a rise but will this change next year due to xHE-AAC?
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ManekiNeko on 2020-10-25 08:18:42
AAC at various bitrates, depending on use case.

96 Kbps for my GFs Garmin watch.
128 Kbps for tablets that are way down the list for listening on.
144 Kbps for our mobile phones.
160 Kbps for my DAPs that are used for corded headphone usage and lots more power to drive headphones.

Based on Guru's latest 128 Kbps test, I should probably cut out 160 and possibly even 144.

I tried going with Opus and it works fantastically, but I didn't want the potential headache of Opus being transcoded for use over Bluetooth to AAC enabled headphones. And, with AAC working so well down to 128 Kbps, why have yet another one in the mix.

Pretty much the same for me using Apple’s TVBR AAC Codec. It’s compatible with all of my devices and equipment around the home and has 100% replaced mp3. Opus isn’t compatible with anything I own but I hope xHE-AAC gets major support. I haven’t dabbled with HE-AAC which perhaps I should, but with the increase in storage sizes and reduction in costs, I haven’t felt the need to. Which HE-VBR version is considered the best these days?
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Porcus on 2020-10-25 14:56:25
I encode lossless to Opus for portable (= phone) use - but if what I have is in a lossy format already (mainly MP3 then), I just copy it over to my phone.

I guess that leaves three different answers depending on interpretation: MP3, not at all, or Opus.
Opus for the reason I just outlined.
MP3 because that is the main format I play back at home AND the main lossy format when I actually want lossy - I simply don't transcode when I can copy.
And then the previous scenario can be interpreted as "I don't use lossy". That is, for my main playback purposes, I don't do lossy encoding. Nor do I personally downsample/bitreduce my CDDA format files from the DAW format in the studio, I take what I got delivered.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: jaybeee on 2020-10-25 17:19:05
Any lossless files I have that I want to listen to portably (mostly just my phone) then I transcode to Opus (~170kbps).

I have vastly more mp3s though, so will - like Porucs said above - simply listen to those when required.

I also have some M4A/AAC files that I will of course leave as is.

So, right now my lossy choice is Opus if I need to transcode from FLAC/lossless to lossy.

I have also played with the recent versions of xHE-AAC (USAC) and am keeping an keen eye on it with the potential to use that as my lossy file choice.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: radorn on 2020-10-26 01:30:06
I only use lossy encoding very sparingly, and when I do, it's Opus, unless MPEG stuff is required for compatibility, which doesn't happen often in my case.
I use Opus for the little music I put in my phone,  and I've passed Opus-encoded tracks for a friend to play in his store.
For most of my music, self-ripped or downloaded, I go with FLAC, or I convert to it if I get something in another lossless format.
When nothing else is available, and I download something lossy, I don't transcode, obviously.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2020-11-01 19:20:29
Looks like OPUS is on quite a rise but will this change next year due to xHE-AAC?
From my understanding an adoption of xHE-AAC by internet community largely depends from pending ffmpeg decoding support. Once ffmpeg will support it then VLC, foobar2000 and MPC players will support it natively.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ziemek.z on 2020-11-05 18:22:42
I switched to Spotify (Very High quality), so Vorbis.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2020-11-05 19:50:41
Switched to Musepack --Standard, With --nmt 19 on some noisy/loud albums to stop them being 79 ~ 100kbps which seems hurt sound quailty.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Corsair on 2020-11-05 23:32:07
Switched from Apple AAC tvbr 96kbps to Opus vbr 96kbps as I was able to notice some artifacts on a couple of tracks during casual listening which went away with Opus. Great quality and small file size, used mostly on my mobile phone (where space is always lacking) and at work where I have a laptop with SSD drive (again, limited space).
Main library is of course in lossless. :)

I see that MP3 is still strong even within Hydrogenaudio community but I suppose that's because LAME at -V2 (~192kbps) sounds great (notwithstanding some hard-to-encode test cases and electronic music) and the compatibility is unmatched.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: DARcode on 2020-11-06 12:45:11
Nowadays I listen to music only via Linux computer or Android smartphone, hence I've been able to go almost completely WavPack lossless on the former and WavPack lossy on the latter thanks to foobar2000, I still have some FLACs and ACCs floating around though.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: 2M2B on 2020-11-12 22:20:36
I use Musepack (~192kbps) both at home/portable. For LAME(compatibility) i use V3 ~ V0.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: lock67ca on 2020-11-13 01:54:22
Pretty much just using FLAC now but, when I use lossy, I'm still using LAME -v2. Seriously considering Opus for use on my phone.
Title: Re: 2020 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: bscand72 on 2020-11-27 14:09:10
I use Opus 1.3.1 at 128 kbps for portable use (Sansa Fuze+ with Rockbox).
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