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Hydrogenaudio Forum => Polls => Topic started by: IgorC on 2019-09-29 19:39:11

Poll
Question: What lossy formats do you use on a *regular* basis?
Option 1: AAC or HE-AAC v1,v2 (.m4a, .aac…)
Option 2: LossyWAV + lossless (.lossy.flac, .lossy.wv, .lossy.tak…)
Option 3: MP3 (.mp3)
Option 4: Musepack (.mpc)
Option 5: Ogg Vorbis (.ogg)
Option 6: Opus (.opus)
Option 7: AC-3/EAC-3 Dolby Digital
Option 8: WMA Standard/Pro (.wma
Option 9: USAC (xHE-AAC)
Option 10: AC-4 Dolby Digital
Option 11: EVS
Option 12: WavPack Lossy/Hybrid (.wv)
Option 13: AMR [WB/WB+]
Option 14: MPEG Surround
Option 15: MPEG-H 3D Audio
Option 16: Speex
Option 17: DTS
Option 18: ATRAC 1/3/3plus/9 (Sony)
Option 19: Codec2
Option 20: Other lossy format
Option 21: I don't really use any lossy codec on a regular basis
Title: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2019-09-29 19:39:11
Hi, people.

This is a new version of poll for lossy codecs.
This time WavPack Lossy/Hybrid (.wv) was included as there was interest during previous years. 2018 Format poll [Lossy Formats] (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=115722.0)

Our polls have made into Chris'es blog http://www.ecodis.de/audio.htm  :)

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Phanton_13 on 2019-09-30 00:41:28
 For what reason its a single selection poll when the title: "What lossy formats do you use on a *regular* basis?" make it thinks it a multiple selection poll
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: carpman on 2019-09-30 00:50:26
Yes, ideally I'd have a two-part:
1) Which is your main / preferred lossy format of choice
2) Tick all the lossy formats you currently use

Something like that .... but maybe there's backwards compatibility issues - i.e. comparing to previous years.

C.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Chibisteven on 2019-09-30 05:22:39
Complicated here but I'll be honest here.  Mainly because there's no multi-choice in this poll.  Usually I end up with lossy formats if that's all that is available.  Hence why my usability doesn't change much as it's either in my digital music collection as is or that it's some product or service that I use.  For stuff I do have more control over (buying a new CD or recording something myself, etc.) I always use lossless formats.

MP3 = Some internet arrangements that I still have from OverClocked ReMix, as well as music from certain PC games that used MP3.
Dolby Digital or AC3 = Over the air television broadcasts (it's ATSC standard and you're using it if you're watching TV), DVD viewing (they all pretty much have this).
OPUS = Youtube? 
Vorbis = Spotify?  I don't stream music that often.
AAC L/C = iTunes Purchases for sure, maybe some streaming services?
Other = Bunch of compressed formats for games.

FLAC is the main format in my library but it's not a lossy format so it doesn't count here.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: robojock on 2019-09-30 10:03:17
MP3 for me, as it is the only format that is the compatible with all the devices i own. Some devices i own can obviously play other lossy formats aac/m4a or opus but then there other devices that cannot work with those formats.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Cavaille on 2019-09-30 10:47:41
I know it's the forum software... but multiple selections would be really nice at some point :)

I chose lossyWAV but would have liked WavPack, mp3 and Musepack as well.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ajp9 on 2019-09-30 15:34:31
It depends on the situation, but the fact that I couldn't select more than one made me think of why I use Opus the most often (the selected choice). It's the most transparent for the 14-144 kbps VBR range. (Lower rates pretty much require AI to sound transparent.) It works great not only for voice but general radio, which made it ideal for general YouTube.

Until certain improvements are made to Opus or Vorbis, AAC remains on top for best quality when it comes to higher bit rates, but Opus is on top for general content.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Moonbase on 2019-10-01 15:35:17
I chose "MP3" since a larger part of my 150k track collection is still in this format—collected over decades, and of course I keep these.
Everything that’s new is ripped to FLAC.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: magicgoose on 2019-10-01 17:21:20
MPC because with certain options I can ensure transparency even for a set of killer samples where other lossy codecs fail pretty bad, and the average bitrate is still less than with lossywav or anything of that sort. (about 260) It's not really optimal for most content, but I can live with that, SD cards are pretty big nowadays.
I'd be happy to switch to Opus when a couple of edge cases is fixed.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: punkrockdude on 2019-10-01 19:14:41
LossyWAV and Opus on cell phones. MP3 in the car.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Musique-Rabbit on 2019-10-02 02:19:02
LossyWAV and Opus only
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: polemon on 2019-10-02 07:38:31
As with all these polls, I tick the one I use as a codec, rather than what I kinda come in contact with casually.
Alas, I had to select AAC / HE-AAC this time. I kinda do a bit of life-streaming on the side right now, and using AAC encoding is more or less the standard there.
Has been Opus for many years, let's home things change back to it.

Also, props to IgorC for including Codec2!
And yes, I'm still lazily working on VoIRC using Codec2... ¦D
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Shinichi on 2019-10-02 09:20:14
WavPack@450 for PC /HiFi and Musepack Q5 for portable (especially with additional settings which give very high/transparent quality in general). Still, both archives are 30% smaller than lossless. :)
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2019-10-02 17:22:28
MPC because with certain options I can ensure transparency even for a set of killer samples where other lossy codecs fail pretty bad,
If You mean synthetic samples in your topic (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=118074.0) by killer samples then there are  few important moments here.
  • Nobody listen synthetic samples as sine wave as it was music or speech.
  • Performance on synthetic samples isn't representative. It was discussed several times and conclusion was pretty the same. Codec A can be much worse than B on synthetic samples but significantly better on music/speech files. I've made a few expriements in past as well.  You can try it yourself to encode  music and  synthetic samples to  Musepack, AAC and Opus let's say at 128 kbps+. The results will be very revealing.  The same thing happens with a video codecs. Nobody tests video encoders on white noise or fancy color squares because more advanced formats explore psychovisual properties in a  way that can fail miserably on such samples but actually much better for average material (i.e.  formats with advanced deblocking/inloop filters etc...)


I'd be happy to switch to Opus when a couple of edge cases is fixed.
Don't hold your breath.  Synthetic samples aren't priority for developers for a very good reason.

BTW There is a listening test between  Musepack, Opus and AAC at 192 kbps https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Faudiophilesoft.ru%2Fnews%2F200_kbps_abc%2F2014-06-27-105
I tend to trust this test because  the listener is a very trained guy.

For what reason its a single selection poll when the title: "What lossy formats do you use on a *regular* basis?" make it thinks it a multiple selection poll
It's been discussed https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=115722.msg956043#msg956043
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: magicgoose on 2019-10-02 23:49:04
If I needed to stay under 128 kbps, I'd not use MPC, of course.
If I had about 3x more memory available or smaller music collection, I could just copy the original FLAC files and not use lossy, because why not. It would remove the need for a little bit of work and it's just simpler. Also just in case I need to copy from there to somewhere else while away from the main archive, I'd still have the freedom of choice to compress or not compress (and to which format), because these are still original files.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2019-10-03 00:55:02
Musepack Q5 for portable (especially with additional settings which give very high/transparent quality in general).
 
 

What additional settings, please?
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2019-10-03 01:02:00
Our polls have made into Chris'es blog http://www.ecodis.de/audio.htm  :)
 
Just wondering... is he a regular here?
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2019-10-03 02:26:25
@includemeout
 C.R.Helmrich (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?action=profile;u=64012)
It was a while since his last post. Well, there isn't much to see anyway.  Development of  most of audio encoders is finished. 
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Shinichi on 2019-10-03 09:20:11
Musepack Q5 for portable (especially with additional settings which give very high/transparent quality in general).
What additional settings, please?

You can see here:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=96108.50
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: yourlord on 2019-10-03 18:31:20
I have some ogg vorbis laying around, and a smattering of mp3. Most of my archive is FLAC, and when I need to have access to lossy somewhere (pretty much just on my phone), I encode with opus.

I haven't encoded anything other than flac and opus for general audio in years now.
I use aac for video audio tracks just because that's what most video devices expect.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: .halverhahn on 2019-10-03 22:53:23
Usage of lossy codec depends on use case.

Video MKV: h264 and AC3
Audio Book: AAC
Music Mobile: AAC
Music Library: FLAC
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2019-10-04 15:23:45
I pick MP3 so pretty much 192kb/s with the heavier samples at either 320 or just flac. Since i don't see a point going full lossless when 99.5% of my collection sounds fine at VBR 192Kb/sec.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2019-10-04 23:27:56
If I needed to stay under 128 kbps, I'd not use MPC, of course.
It's not about bitrate but usefulness of testing a samples that nobody listen in a real scenario.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: soundping on 2019-10-05 01:29:31
I got a 512GB card for the phone, I don't think about lossy.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2019-10-05 02:05:27
Musepack Q5 for portable (especially with additional settings which give very high/transparent quality in general).
  What additional settings, please?
  
You can see here:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=96108.50
 
 Thanks.That's quite an interesting thread you lot had going on. I had been away, see? :))
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2019-10-05 02:06:59
@includemeout
 C.R.Helmrich (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?action=profile;u=64012)
It was a while since his last post. Well, there isn't much to see anyway.  Development of  most of audio encoders is finished.
 
 Definitely! 

Thanks anyway.

Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: LC3 on 2019-10-12 04:16:42
I chose mp3 (LAME 192 VBR for pop, 320 VBR for classical), because that's what my current rips are.  Yesterday I came across a post that got me thinking about re-ripping my CDs to Vorbis (q6), but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.  I ripped a few albums and compared the mp3 to Vorbis, and I thought the mp3 sounded a bit harsher.  The Vorbis sounded a bit more refined, which I liked.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: DARcode on 2019-10-12 11:59:22
Thanks to foobar2000 on Android I use lossy WavePack (no correction files) more and more, but that's for my own CD and vinyl rips, the majority of my Bandcamp and similar downloads are still AAC.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: shadowking on 2019-10-14 15:40:21
Wavpack lossy on android for the last six years , poweramp or foobar.
Title: Re: 2019 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Sajadi on 2019-11-30 15:13:15
Opus - as it works very well with Chiptunes and any other kind of old computer music :)
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