Hydrogenaudio Forums

Hydrogenaudio Forum => Validated News => Topic started by: Peter on 2014-04-10 14:54:58

Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Peter on 2014-04-10 14:54:58
http://mobile.foobar2000.com (http://mobile.foobar2000.com)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: dhromed on 2014-04-10 15:13:24
Can I pay with XP points or gold from my favourite RPGs?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: extrabigmehdi on 2014-04-10 15:38:52
Three mobile platforms at the same time, this looks ambitious.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: RonaldDumsfeld on 2014-04-10 16:06:06
Got to be done really hasn't it?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: mlauzon on 2014-04-10 16:24:20
http://mobile.foobar2000.com (http://mobile.foobar2000.com)

I find this quite funny, because I asked about this almost a year ago...! (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,94452.0.html)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: john33 on 2014-04-10 18:12:48
Got my attention, and backing.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-10 18:22:24
What is the difference between:

http://mobile.foobar2000.com/ (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/)
and
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/197726...obar2000-mobile (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1977265610/foobar2000-mobile)

Currencies and prices are different.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: r_0 on 2014-04-10 18:35:31
I find this quite funny, because I asked about this almost a year ago...! (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=94452)

I did too and received the same "Never!" answer. So what's changed?

1) Can someone clarify whether the Windows Tablet (Metro) version will support x86 devices only or ARM ones too?

2) Will the free version have ads? (Hope not!) How much will the "fully featured premium version" cost?

3) What will differentiate the "fully featured premium version" from the free one? Lack of ads (if any) and the addition of cloud, social and streaming? What if these 3 goals aren't met?

4) I suppose it is way too early to talk about the store, especially since that goal may never be reached? I want to (eventually) know which labels you've tied up with, what will be the formats supported (lossless?), DRM-free or not, cost per track/album and many more things.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-10 18:38:36
Good question...the difference is that mobile.foobar2000.com is handled 100% by ourselves, this allows us to offer payment in the 3 main currencies and offer a Paypal payment method also (in my experience these are very important), Kickstarter fix on the currency of the creating country.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: 2012 on 2014-04-10 18:41:03
Good luck.

For the time being, some of us are enjoying MPDroid (with MPD, aMPD or mopidy).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-10 18:50:28
I find this quite funny, because I asked about this almost a year ago...! (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=94452)

I did too and received the same "Never!" answer. So what's changed?

1) Can someone clarify whether the Windows Tablet (Metro) version will support x86 devices only or ARM ones too?

2) Will the free version have ads? (Hope not!) How much will the "fully featured premium version" cost?

3) What will differentiate the "fully featured premium version" from the free one? Lack of ads (if any) and the addition of cloud, social and streaming? What if these 3 goals aren't met?

4) I suppose it is way too early to talk about the store, especially since that goal may never be reached? I want to (eventually) know which labels you've tied up with, what will be the formats supported (lossless?), cost per track/album and many more things.


1) I will need to clarify this with the other developers,

2) I hope not also, I push for the free version to be advert free. The cost has not been finalized, it will however be in the same league as similar offerings from competitors,

3) It would miss certain features of the paid version, again not finalized.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-10 19:08:08
Good question...the difference is that mobile.foobar2000.com is handled 100% by ourselves, this allows us to offer payment in the 3 main currencies and offer a Paypal payment method also (in my experience these are very important), Kickstarter fix on the currency of the creating country.


So basically there are two competing fundraisers? Which one are we supposed to choose? Aren't you basically dividing your chances of reaching your goal in half?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: extrabigmehdi on 2014-04-10 19:10:07
mu ha ha, I read:
Quote
foobar2000 was created to playback audio in its purest form, partnering with B&W, the P5 will ensure the finest of all playback from your portable player.


I think that people here are usually reluctant to use this kind of vocabulary 
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nimos on 2014-04-10 19:29:32
This isn't an April fool's joke from Peter, right.
But the statements about foobar2000 and the ear phones make me feel like one.

I would definitely like a Windows phone port though.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: mudlord on 2014-04-10 19:39:39
You do realise, if you people release a mobile version, it WILL be cracked, right?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-04-10 19:42:51
Are the funding goals for iOS, Android and Windows Phone cumulative? 218000€ are denoted for Windows - does that mean that the money for iOS and android is already included in the sum?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: extrabigmehdi on 2014-04-10 20:11:18
You do realise, if you people release a mobile version, it WILL be cracked, right?


I assume it would be a free version, otherwise it should be mentioned that it's not free.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Alexander Ostuni on 2014-04-10 20:15:36
I think with my Nokia N9 I am out of luck...
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: extrabigmehdi on 2014-04-10 20:19:11
Few reactions at neowin:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1208901-...le-kickstarter/ (http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1208901-foobar2000-mobile-kickstarter/)

Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-10 21:01:33
[quote author=q-stankovic link=msg=862767 date=1397155371]Are the funding goals for iOS, Android and Windows Phone cumulative? 218000€ are denoted for Windows - does that mean that the money for iOS and android is already included in the sum?[/quote]

Yes they are included in the sum.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-10 21:03:39
So basically there are two competing fundraisers? Which one are we supposed to choose? Aren't you basically dividing your chances of reaching your goal in half?


You can choose any, if for example each fundraiser raised 50% of the first goal, we have the option of moving the funds from our fund to the kickstarter page, to ensure completion. There is effectively one first goal.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Brand on 2014-04-10 21:32:25
I mean no offense... but this looks a bit weird. I had to double check to make sure it's for real. For something that's aiming to raise over a million $ the presentation isn't very convincing.
And then two separate fundraising sites, both with the Kickstarter logo? Confusing at the very least.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: whitewidow on 2014-04-10 21:34:50
not giving money for an iOS foobar, boo! arguably, foobar is the greatest thing since sliced bread. but it's windows, folks. and freeware. and now you want money for a yet to be developed *iOS* version?

edit: maybe i'm a bit greedy. i'd prefer an FOSS product, but I guess I'd give a few $$$ to a foobar android project, just because it's foobar. I'm not particularly convinced how the actual kickstarter is structured (again, since I don't want to pledge money towards iOS development).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: eahm on 2014-04-10 22:14:30
Glad to see I'm not the only one not liking this.

Winamp sold because of the "too much" they tried to do.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: extrabigmehdi on 2014-04-10 22:20:51
It might be wiser to split the kickstarter for different platforms.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: derty2 on 2014-04-10 22:30:22
I don't even own a mobile device of any description 
BUT ............ I will donate some money to this project.
I think Peter deserves some kind of payday for all the years of effort he put into foobar2000.
STFU with any negative whining, just give the guy some money and let him have his day in the sun.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: godrick on 2014-04-10 23:15:38
I'm a nobody, but FWIW I think this is great, and I wish them the best.  Hoping for at least Android level to be reached.  I'm fine with the level of detail provided, from the perspective that detail in these campaigns is a method to establish credibility, and they already have established that in spades.  Their best chance for success is for everyone to spread positive words.  I'm sure they have a marketing plan, but it strikes me that brief video interviews or stories on the largest audio-related sites would help get the word out, like head-fi, avsforums, hometheatershack, audioholics, and yes, even computeraudiophile.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-11 01:00:24
spoon,

at the current stage, can you tell whether on the Windows Phone platform fb2k mobile will be able to play flac and WavPack songs?

(Both file formats are not natively supported by the OS).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-11 01:43:27
Their best chance for success is for everyone to spread positive words.  I'm sure they have a marketing plan, but it strikes me that brief video interviews or stories on the largest audio-related sites would help get the word out, like head-fi, avsforums, hometheatershack, audioholics, and yes, even computeraudiophile.

Mentions on web sites such as Mobile Nations (http://www.mobilenations.com/) could also be useful: 25 millions readers a month, dedicated forums for iOS (http://forums.imore.com/), Android (http://forums.androidcentral.com/) and Windows Phone (http://forums.wpcentral.com/).

I am not a registered member there, but maybe another HA member is.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: r_0 on 2014-04-11 02:13:28
1) Can someone clarify whether the Windows Tablet (Metro) version will support x86 devices only or ARM ones too?

1) I will need to clarify this with the other developers

Yes, please do, this is important to know.

I must confess like whitewidow the Kickstarter campaign structure is a bit confusing for me too. What if I donate to be a Windows version Tester or Early Bird, and the goal is never met? Does that mean I get my money back or do I end up contributing to iOS and Android versions I have no use for? If it's the latter then it really diminishes the appeal for me.

It might be wiser to split the kickstarter for different platforms.

I think so too to be honest. Let each platform stand on its own rather than supporters of the upper tiers (Android and Windows) ensuring the lower tiers are funded with no guarantee they'll get anything for their donation.

Looks to me like the Kickstarter concept is being used a bit incorrectly here. Aren't stretch goals supposed to be things all donors would like, leading many to up their pledges as a result? The way it's currently structured though if someone wants just an iOS version they won't bother donating once $100,000 is hit, and similarly if the Android supporters aren't interested in Windows they won't bother after $200,000 (unless they all really, really want cloud, social, streaming and the store).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: funkyblue on 2014-04-11 03:42:22
All I saw was Foobar2000 Mobile and I inserted my credit card details
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Enig123 on 2014-04-11 05:24:37
Definitely I am supporting you guys. Already payed.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-04-11 08:18:28
[quote author=q-stankovic link=msg=862767 date=1397155371]Are the funding goals for iOS, Android and Windows Phone cumulative? 218000€ are denoted for Windows - does that mean that the money for iOS and android is already included in the sum?

Yes they are included in the sum.
[/quote]

You should clarify that! In the link to neowin from user extrabigmehdi you can see that people think that windows version should cost 210000€

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1208901-...le-kickstarter/ (http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1208901-foobar2000-mobile-kickstarter/)

I had to double check to make sure it's for real. For something that's aiming to raise over a million $ the presentation isn't very convincing.

I must admit - after reaching the site by the ads in foobar2000 website - i thought it could be a fake: why should an official site use something as screenshot for foobar2000 that looks like panels ui layout. Also the big captions don't give a serious impression. i think something should be done on presentation.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: dhromed on 2014-04-11 09:20:00
Wow, it's real? The site just screams "joke", especially with the strange fluffy tone and the over-luxurious tier rewards. It all seems so out of line with foobar's brand.

So yeah, I'm sorry if I'm still skeptical even while having the actual kickstarter page in front of me.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Peter on 2014-04-11 10:11:47
Here's some five eurocents from me about what I'm thinking right now-

For the last 11 years and a half, I've been using my spare time to make a free product. For a while it became my primary job too, but I've turned down every single profit opportunity that would degrade the end user experience. Yahoo/Google/Bing toolbars? Hell no. Ads on the site? Got fucking tired of Google Adsense serving fake download buttons and went for a less profitable option that isn't disrespectful to the userbase.

If I just wanted the money, I'd make some right away, without handing anything new to you - just restore Google Ads at their worst + bundle either crapware with the installer; it would pay me be better than the Kickstarter will, considering the expected development cycle expenses.

We want to make something new - player engine written by me but combined with a professionally designed user interface, on all the mobile platforms. On top of that, all major decisions are still approved by me in person; while foobar2000 mobile is a separate product from the original foobar2000, I will not allow anything that would be in conflict with my software design philosophy. However, doing this right requires a coordinated effort of a development team; doing what we're hoping to accomplish requires a major investment - and this is where the Kickstarter comes into play.

Thanks for reading.

-P
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: wojtek on 2014-04-11 10:33:41
One question comes to my mind - any chances for an osx offspring as well? this would make the whole foobar2k experience complete (i.e. synchronization of the db across all devices). Currently, after switching a while back to osx I'm stuck with itunes and it's less than optimal...
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-11 10:56:30
OS X foobar2000 is not planed at this time, sorry.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nick.C on 2014-04-11 10:58:45
As uneasy as I am with the possibility that the iOS version will be funded and the Android version will not, my long term use of the PC version of foobar2000 is enough to make me want to pledge to give something back. Thanks, Peter, for everything so far - I look forward to the Android version.

[edit due to revision to KS goals - yay!]
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-11 10:59:08
The campaign has been updated to reflect the reality on the ground, iOS and Android goals have been merged under the existing main goal. The stretch goals which were not going to be met have been removed.

Windows mobile has been removed from this kickstarter, it will be developed externally after iOS and Android.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-04-11 11:53:22
It's just not clear now for me what the status of the removed goals are. Will they be picked up again when the others are reached? Especially the streaming goal sounded fantastic to me. And what means external development of windows phone component?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: whitewidow on 2014-04-11 11:59:22
The campaign has been updated

Great news! You'll get my money (soon).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-11 12:52:26
[quote author=q-stankovic link=msg=862835 date=1397213602]It's just not clear now for me what the status of the removed goals are. Will they be picked up again when the others are reached? Especially the streaming goal sounded fantastic to me. And what means external development of windows phone component?[/quote]

The removed goals are on hold for now. I agree streaming would be great.

External development, means the development will be handled externally to this kickstarter.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Brand on 2014-04-11 13:17:57
So Kickstarter doesn't accept Paypal etc. Perhaps this could be explained more clearly somewhere and make people know that the funds will be merged, otherwise mobile.foobar2000.com looks almost like a fake Kickstarter page. It also has some design/layout issues (at least in Firefox).
I'm not very convinced by the bundling of headphones, that glossy desktop app screenshot, the video.. perhaps you should put more focus on the mobile app itself and what it has to offer. Although I see now that that section will be updated, which is great.

I wish you guys all the best, but I still think this campaign could use some improvements to attract interest from more than just the "hardcore" Foobar fans.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: marc2003 on 2014-04-11 14:30:02
[quote author=q-stankovic link=msg=862817 date=1397200708]why should an official site use something as screenshot for foobar2000 that looks like panels ui layout.[/quote]

a google image search reveals that it is...   

http://radecke.deviantart.com/art/radecke-s-foobar-69470732 (http://radecke.deviantart.com/art/radecke-s-foobar-69470732)

i think i can make out on the little video clip that it is some version of tedgo (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showuser=13548)'s dark one theme running. at least that one runs on current versions of foobar and doesn't use banned components.



Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-11 14:30:40
If the point of the mobile.foobar2000.com page is to offer more currencies and payment facilities, I think you should drop the kickstarter layout entirely, just display the payment facilities and indicate that the funds will be moved over to the official Kickstarter fundraiser (with a clear hyperlink to it). The current situation is just super confusing.

I also hope that the file transfer / synching system will work on all major PC operating systems (Windows, OS X and Linux).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-11 14:43:24
BTW, audiophoolery is where the money's at (hello Pono!). Maybe you could advertise 24 bit / 192 kHz playback on Head-Fi, or something.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kornchild2002 on 2014-04-11 15:02:05
OS X foobar2000 is not planed at this time, sorry.


Bummer, especially since the video on the Kickstarter website clearly uses a MacBook Pro when advertising the cloud syncing feature.

Would the iOS version support AirPlay streaming?  I think that is limited to 16-bit, 48KHz and Apple enforced ALAC encoding on-the-fly (I could be wrong) but it could still be possible for most audio files (just maybe on 24-bit, 192KHz lossless/PCM as that would eat through an iPhone's/iPad's battery encoding that to ALAC).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-11 15:09:52
When I advise somebody to check out fb2k I usually do this with these words: "iTunes monitors YOU. foobar2000 monitors your library." There are many reasons why users hold foobar2000 in high esteem, for exampleA lot of software especially on mobile platforms does gather as much private data as it can. Data that has nothing to do with the software's purpose and which isn't needed for the SW to do its job; data that is collected without user permission or user awareness; data that - behind the user's back - is sent over the internet for further analysis, who knows by whom and what for.

I've turned down every single profit opportunity that would degrade the end user experience. Yahoo/Google/Bing toolbars? Hell no. Ads on the site? Got fucking tired of Google Adsense serving fake download buttons and went for a less profitable option that isn't disrespectful to the userbase. [...]

We want to make something new - player engine written by me but combined with a professionally designed user interface, on all the mobile platforms. On top of that, all major decisions are still approved by me in person; while foobar2000 mobile is a separate product from the original foobar2000, I will not allow anything that would be in conflict with my software design philosophy.

I am confident a 'foobar2000 mobile' would have all the good attributes as the current PC version has; it would also enhance the value of the mobile operating systems as such, with their tens of thousands of useless crap "apps". The kickstarter campain's appearance in its entirety should from my point of view more reflect on this instead of using buzzwords which apparently irritate the fb2k community.

The future of computers will mainly be a future in which mobile systems will be dominant. Microsoft is in trouble because Steve Ballmer didn't realize that. Now let us support the Alien Cat to make the jump.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: extrabigmehdi on 2014-04-11 15:19:41
Humm looked at main page of foobar2000.org, and it took me some time to notice where is the announcement for the kickstater.
I think the way it's displayed, there's some "banner blindness":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: marc2003 on 2014-04-11 15:59:54
BTW, audiophoolery is where the money's at (hello Pono!). Maybe you could advertise 24 bit / 192 kHz playback on Head-Fi, or something.


make it support WAV only. you'd reach the target in no time. 
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: eahm on 2014-04-11 16:21:02
Thanks for explaining and reassuring us Peter, I was too afraid things would get different on the desktop version like social integration and all the other stuff foobar2000 shouldn't have. Reading it's a new code, new project and you will not change your way makes it better.

I wish you would do something like what ElementaryOS did on their website (http://elementaryos.org/ (http://elementaryos.org/)), the download button with a minimum of $10 but if you enter $0 you download for free. I would gladly give you $20-50 but you only have flattr, does that even work?

I will pay for the iOS and Android preview.

Thanks.

PS
Thanks for the 1.3.2 update as well.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: GL1zdA on 2014-04-11 17:20:17
Pledged. Good to see the goals updated, I was afraid this will be another Kickstarter disaster. I've backed many projects before, which were canceled or haven't met their goals because the Kickstarter wasn't well prepared (A good postmortem (http://www.stasisgame.com/kickstarter-postmortem/)). I still have mixed feelings about the various tiers, but I hope this campaign will be successful.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: a3aan on 2014-04-11 18:51:28
I would fund an html5 version.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: r_0 on 2014-04-11 20:26:50
Thanks for your reassurance Peter, and since Windows is no longer a target I hope the desktop version will continue to be updated even as you guys are busy with this.

The campaign has been updated to reflect the reality on the ground, iOS and Android goals have been merged under the existing main goal. The stretch goals which were not going to be met have been removed.

Windows mobile has been removed from this kickstarter, it will be developed externally after iOS and Android.

That's really unfortunate and probably means no Metro Foobar for the next year at the very least.  Do you guys plan to have another Kickstarter campaign for the Windows Phone and tablet versions? If both x86 and ARM are supported I will gladly donate a chunk of change and get others interested in these platforms to contribute as well. Cheers!

P.S. Looking at the Reward Delivery Schedule, is the Android version still going to lag behind the iOS one despite the goals being merged?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: JJZolx on 2014-04-12 00:51:18
What kind of support will there be for streaming music services? I don't listen to music through a telephone, but people I do know who use their phones listen mostly to Pandora rather than a local library. Will phone foobar play Pandora One? Spotify?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Reflection on 2014-04-12 05:28:39
I'd pay money just to be able to easily send tracks to an ios device from foobar, but...

$25 just to get the final version and access to a forum/blog? I've never spent much more than $5 on any app, let alone a music player.

How is "Cloud Foobar" even remotely legal?

Why does the kickstarter display an image of foobar that isn't remotely close to what foobar2000 is (without massive 3rd party support)? In fact, that screen shot seems to be something that is almost frowned upon (where's the menu!).

I can already play music on my phone, what is foobar going to do to improve the experience?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-12 15:37:28
P.S. Looking at the Reward Delivery Schedule, is the Android version still going to lag behind the iOS one despite the goals being merged?


Yes
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-12 15:38:04
What kind of support will there be for streaming music services? I don't listen to music through a telephone, but people I do know who use their phones listen mostly to Pandora rather than a local library. Will phone foobar play Pandora One? Spotify?


The streaming is on hold, until we are in a better position to pursue it.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-12 15:39:04
How is "Cloud Foobar" even remotely legal?


How is it not legal? having your files in a private locker on the Internet, synced to your private devices.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: moozooh on 2014-04-12 17:56:25
Woo! I have no definite interest in using a a music player on any of the mentioned systems remotely often, but will certainly be backing this. High time for this initiative to appear, good call Peter and the team!
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-13 02:02:48
(http://mobile.foobar2000.com/images/foobar-kickstarter.png) (http://mobile.foobar2000.com)

Support the creation of foobar2000 mobile (http://mobile.foobar2000.com), a fantastic new player which targets iPhone, iPad, Android, Windows Phone & tablets. Featuring innovative never seen before abilities, help create an extraordinary player.

Peter, I just pledged on mobile.foobar2000.com because what you have done with foobar2000 is wonderful, and even though I believe that 25 dollars for a player application on iOS/Android is too much (they are no more than 5 normally). But again, your work on db2k is so good you deserve it.

But I have to agree that having two pledges is a little confusing, more so when both mention kickstarter, and the mobile one clearly is not, even if I pledged there.

I submited it to slashdot: http://slashdot.org/submission/3482957/foo...-on-kickstarter (http://slashdot.org/submission/3482957/foobar2000-for-ios-and-android-on-kickstarter)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: whitewidow on 2014-04-13 09:04:54
You still got two sites which count pledges separately. Prospective backers which see only one of the two sites get a false impression. I mean, this could work in your favor (some people think they need to pledge more so that the goal is reached), but it could also work against you (people think it's not worth backing the project considering the small sum pledged by others). I also think this could backfire when you receive unfavorable press for this.

In any case, people are considering making an investment in your project. Treat them as investors! Provide them with accurate information as to the total amount of funds you've acquired thus far. I know I've been repeating myself a bit in this post. But I just wanna make 100% sure that I drive the following point home: your communication is not in line with a responsible investor relations strategy.

EDIT: are you even on the safe side legally, i.e., do Kickstarter's TOS allow you to do part of the crowdfunding off-site?

EDIT2: what happens if you collect $60,000 on each of the two crowdfunding sites? Then you have the option, but not the obligation to pool the funds. From my perspective, this makes for really poor accountability on your part.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-13 12:02:40
We run all Credit Card payments now through Kickstarter.com, all Paypal payments (which are not handled by ks.com are handled by ourselves).

This method was done for the Elite kickstarter, a game (they raised $2M on KS and if I remember correctly $3M on their own site).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: randal1013 on 2014-04-13 12:33:06
first and foremost: it is truly great that foobar2000 is coming to mobile platforms and that the developers will actually get paid for their work. you guys have earned it, and I wish you all the best.


Windows mobile has been removed from this kickstarter, it will be developed externally after iOS and Android.

however, it pains me that bringing the app to windows phone is a mere afterthought. as a windows phone user, I'm used to missing out on popular apps, or waiting extra long for them to come to windows phone, or using a third-party imitation. I foolishly believed that if anyone would make windows phone a priority, surely it would be the foobar devs who have been stubbornly exclusive to windows since the beginning. when I just now discovered a kickstarter for foobar mobile, I felt like I won the lottery. but then I read the kickstarter page, and then came here, only to find out that the foobar devs are basically ignoring windows phone. logically, I understand that I am not owed anything, yet I can't help feeling like I just got punched in the gut. yes, I know, you said that you are going to make the windows phone version, but making a post on a forum isn't the same kind of promise as launching a kickstarter campaign. without any kind of contractual obligation on your end to actually make the windows phone app, I am very hesitant to pledge money to the campaign. I would feel much more comfortable if the windows phone app was officially added to the campaign, even as a stretch goal.



additionally, it is very odd that there are two separate campaigns.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-04-13 13:03:08
In the meantime i pledged. What irritates me highly is that i started from mobile.foobar2000.com but was directed in the whole process to the kickstarter site where my backing is listed now. What is that? 
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-13 13:41:57
[quote author=q-stankovic link=msg=863024 date=1397390588]In the meantime i pledged. What irritates me highly is that i started from mobile.foobar2000.com but was directed in the whole process to the kickstarter site where my backing is listed now. What is that?  [/quote]
How did you pledge?

We run all Credit Card payments now through Kickstarter.com, all Paypal payments (which are not handled by ks.com are handled by ourselves).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-04-13 13:55:19
Thank you, robertina! It's clear now!
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: drbeachboy on 2014-04-13 16:21:04
(http://mobile.foobar2000.com/images/foobar-kickstarter.png) (http://mobile.foobar2000.com)

Support the creation of foobar2000 mobile (http://mobile.foobar2000.com), a fantastic new player which targets iPhone, iPad, Android, Windows Phone & tablets. Featuring innovative never seen before abilities, help create an extraordinary player.

Peter, I just pledged on mobile.foobar2000.com because what you have done with foobar2000 is wonderful, and even though I believe that 25 dollars for a player application on iOS/Android is too much (they are no more than 5 normally). But again, your work on db2k is so good you deserve it.

I totally agree with you. I have been using fb2k since 2004 and I have never found anything near as good, and I have tried many other players over the past 10 years. I guess the best way to look at the $25 that I contributed is that $5 is for the app and $20 for R&D. Well worth the money in my eyes.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Soap on 2014-04-13 16:32:27
I submited it to slashdot: http://slashdot.org/submission/3482957/foo...-on-kickstarter (http://slashdot.org/submission/3482957/foobar2000-for-ios-and-android-on-kickstarter)


The goal is 60,000 GBP, not 60,000 USD.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Soap on 2014-04-13 16:34:25
P.S. Looking at the Reward Delivery Schedule, is the Android version still going to lag behind the iOS one despite the goals being merged?


Yes

Even if the current trend of Android donations exceeding iOS donations continues?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-13 17:00:39
Yes
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-04-13 17:04:24
Isn't it anyway a lag of just three two months in regard to the releases?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-13 17:24:43
I just submited it to hacker news, go and vote for it so it has visibility.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581774 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581774)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Cartoon on 2014-04-13 17:43:34
Is there even a market for an iOS version? How many use a custom music player on iOS compared to Android? Any market research for this? I don't have access to any iOS device, but on Google Play store, Poweramp Trial got 10M+ downloads, with 1M+ downloads for the full version. Rocket Music Player and Android Music player also got 10M+ each...
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-13 18:35:37
Is there even a market for an iOS version?


First, there is FLAC Player (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/flac-player/id390532592?mt=8), which is used by a lot of audiophiles. Second, there is probably an untapped market of people who want an iPod Touch or iPhone, but are put off by the iTunes requirement.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-13 19:36:23
I submited it to OSnews. Now, here are some comments on http://www.reddit.com/r/foobar2000/comment...le_kickstarter/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/foobar2000/comments/22p84g/foobar2000_mobile_kickstarter/)

I don-t agree with all, but you might go and reply there.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: JJZolx on 2014-04-14 00:09:36
first and foremost: it is truly great that foobar2000 is coming to mobile platforms and that the developers will actually get paid for their work. you guys have earned it, and I wish you all the best.


May be coming. The kickstarter campaign appears to be getting off to a slow start. This needs to be marketed to more people than just HA fans who already run foobar, or it's going to fizzle out. Fast.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-14 00:29:06
first and foremost: it is truly great that foobar2000 is coming to mobile platforms and that the developers will actually get paid for their work. you guys have earned it, and I wish you all the best.


May be coming. The kickstarter campaign appears to be getting off to a slow start. This needs to be marketed to more people than just HA fans who already run foobar, or it's going to fizzle out. Fast.

That is why I have been submitting it to news sites. But the more we submit to, the better.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: godrick on 2014-04-14 00:34:53
I couldn't help but google Kickstarter success factors/predictors, so without any endorsement or understanding of such, my top takeaways from the search for funding success predictors:

1) Tweet heavily.  I don't get it, but understanding or agreement is not necessary for correlation (I do not have the data or patience to determine if the claimed correlation is valid).
2) Sidekick is blowing it in tracking the total pledged by only tracking what is pledged in pounds. They seem to have ignored the mobile.foobar2000.com pledges entirely.

Even with the significant shortcoming noted above, Sidekick is currently showing a 93% predicted success for the (nonstretch) funding goal.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-14 11:52:13
We have consolidated the Kickstarter into our own (the Kickstarter was going to be 2/3rds short of funding to meet the goal so was suspended), it is hoped that the revised goal on:

http://mobile.foobar2000.com/ (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/)

Can be reached, it now includes Windows Phone. Those who pledged through kickstarter, if you wish to, pledge direct.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: AmelieMontecis on 2014-04-14 12:20:19
Hello to all the ones who will participate to the foobar2000 mobile project!

I'm just writing this to explain to you WHY the project has low interest for everyone.

First of all, news feed of foobar2000 home page doesn't have RSS. So only few people know about your project.
Secondly, foobar2000 users are not the ones who want a big fat interface with stylish buttons. We just want a music player, that fast, that useful. A player that does everything we need for an everyday use.
When we want to play music on Android, iOS or Windows Phone, we just already have a player doing the job. We never have to convert or edit the tags of our music on our smartphones.

I personnally really liked to "Cloud foobar2000" part: if you could just release an HTML5/JavaScript music player (with music from local computer, Dropbox, Google Driver, etc...) that is fully functionnal (without gapless for the moment because the Web Audio API doesn't permit it), with a full converter, and tag editor, all in one, like foobar2000 on PC, it could be very interesting.
That way, everyone could access (mobile or not) the WebApp you'd have created. And then we would be able to make a Firefox Extension, a Chrome App (ChromeOS ?), an Android app, etc... Everything from your WebApp.

Now regarding Linux & Mac OSX users, if you don't want to make a WebApp, please at least consider these users more than Android and iOS ones...

Thanks for reading my post.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-14 12:42:24
We have consolidated the Kickstarter into our own (the Kickstarter was going to be 2/3rds short of funding to meet the goal so was suspended)


So now this is just a no-name fundraiser without a well known company providing guarantees for the pledges. Big mistake, if you ask me. You should have done the opposite, stayed with kickstarter.com and advertise THAT.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-14 14:23:16
So now this is just a no-name fundraiser without a well known company providing guarantees for the pledges. Big mistake, if you ask me. You should have done the opposite, stayed with kickstarter.com and advertise THAT.

I have to agree with skamp. Anybody from HA would pledge without doubts, but everybody else, might not be so sure.

For example, on a kickstarter project, if it does not reaches its goal, you don't get charged, but on mobile.foobar2000.org, I'm not so sure.

I don't care, and Peter and Team, you can keep my little money, but a lot of people wont like it.

It is also bad because if any of the submissions I did are accepted, the url (kickstarter), would be wrong.

This is not to frustrate you over this project, please keep trying, but is our point of view/experience.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-14 16:37:36
The pledge is now on the SHITTY KICKSTARTERS subreddit.

The thing seems to be confusing a lot of people, for example, the user that submited it thinks that the first screenshot is what it would look like.

http://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters...p_200k_stretch/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/22yzzy/100000_for_foobar2000_mobile_app_200k_stretch/)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-14 18:40:17
What happens when people pledge via PayPal (or credit card, which I assume also goes through PayPal)? Is the PayPal fee deducted immediately? What happens if you guys don't meet your goal and need to refund everyone? Will it cost you money because of that PayPal fee?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Soap on 2014-04-14 18:54:34
What happens if you guys don't meet your goal and need to refund everyone?


I very well may be blind but I don't see anything about refunding on the mobile.foobar page.

That combined with spoon's line

We have consolidated the Kickstarter into our own (the Kickstarter was going to be 2/3rds short of funding to meet the goal so was suspended), it is hoped that the revised goal on:


implies to me that the team was worried they'd get zero from Kickstarter, but by holding the fundraiser themselves they could keep whatever does come in.  And perhaps my reading between the lines is off base, but why else leave whatever legitimacy and assurance that the Kickstarter brand brings? 

While I am fully willing to be told I'm wrong, I'm far from the only one who is reading it this way, and combined with the multi-shifting goal posts something smells bad, be it poor intent or poor planning. 
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-14 19:03:32
I LOVE this project, and I LOVE to have it on my N5 and my wife's iPhone, but I agree there are too many things that are not clear.

And I'm not saying it because I care about 25 dollars, I'm saying it because I want it to succeed.

I believe that pledge page looks a little bit amateurish and needs to be improved, to include better descriptions.

I believe the funding has to be done on kickstarter or indiegogo. (In indiegogo a project can keep its money if not funded).

Read the reddit links i posted, and see what the complains are.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-14 19:10:56
I submited it to OSnews. Now, here are some comments on http://www.reddit.com/r/foobar2000/comment...le_kickstarter/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/foobar2000/comments/22p84g/foobar2000_mobile_kickstarter/)

kwanbis,

the last poster in this thread expresses his disappointment (http://www.reddit.com/r/foobar2000/comments/22p84g/foobar2000_mobile_kickstarter/cgr7sen) because of the removal of Windows Phone as a goal.

Since WP now has been re-added to the campaign which itself has changed a lot - would you mind updating this guy a litte bit? (I am not a member on reddit.com).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-14 19:13:41
it now includes Windows Phone.

I appreciate that decision. Though Windows Phone is still behind Android and iOS, it makes up ground:

Quote
Making a comeback

If Android and Apple can claim to be the big players of 2013, Windows Phone wins the title of top-performer. It wasn't a promising start for Windows Phone when launched in October 2010 as solid reviews failed to translate into meaningful sales. A lack of apps and consumer wariness of a new platform were blamed and many claimed that the experiment had failed.

Three years later and Windows is the fastest growing OS in the world. It has overtaken Apple in Italy, is a close second in Germany and has snatched back third place in Britain.

Source: Mobile Trends that Matter Tomorrow (http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/dwl.php?sn=news_downloads&id=431) (1,5 MB pdf)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-14 19:19:22
it now includes Windows Phone.

At the moment Microsoft's app store can't compete with the iOS/Android counterparts.

But that's why I think that both consumers and Microsoft are particularly interested in new applications, especially if these are 'high-quality' apps (you know what I mean) instead of being the thousandth variation of a poorly programmed crap app. Since users have a less wide range of products they can choose from, a foobar2000 mobile could hold easier the spotlight in the WP app store as in the iOS one or Android store.

Microsoft to host new Publish Windows developer days with awesome prizes (http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-host-new-publish-windows-developer-days)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-14 19:22:27
An interesting Smartphone OS market share analysis (http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/smartphone-os-market-share/intro) - not only for Alien Cat decision-makers or Alien Cat (mobile) lovers.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Soap on 2014-04-14 19:28:36
An interesting Smartphone OS market share analysis (http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/smartphone-os-market-share/intro) - not only for Alien Cat decision-makers or Alien Cat (mobile) lovers.


Raw marketshare tells very little about the viability of any given app.  One must consider the demographic match between the phone's and the app's userbases and especially the purchasing habits thereof.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-14 19:42:57
What happens when people pledge via PayPal (or credit card, which I assume also goes through PayPal)? Is the PayPal fee deducted immediately? What happens if you guys don't meet your goal and need to refund everyone? Will it cost you money because of that PayPal fee?


Paypal and the credit card processor give us 60 days to refund, there is no cost to a refund.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-14 19:44:06
I believe that pledge page looks a little bit amateurish and needs to be improved

Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-14 19:59:43
An interesting Smartphone OS market share analysis (http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/smartphone-os-market-share/intro) - not only for Alien Cat decision-makers or Alien Cat (mobile) lovers.

Raw marketshare tells very little about the viability of any given app.  One must consider the demographic match between the phone's and the app's userbases and especially the purchasing habits thereof.

I had to read that "demographic match between the phone's and the app's userbases" part twice until I understood. 

Yes, this market share analysis does nothing more than to state which OS market shares can be found in which country.

This "One must consider ... the purchasing habits": I think this would be the most professional approach. But on the one hand I never have noticed any publication of such consumer studies and on the other hand even a study of such market conditions would not guarantee success. Program a simple game, use an 8-bit-like graphic and try to avoid that a bird crashes against obstacles. Call that game 'Flappy Bird' and be astonished by your success..
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-04-14 20:02:59
that was the firsdt time i ever pledged so i have some questions:

1. If the project is canceled does that mean that also my pbacking is cancelled? I don't have to do that on my own?

2. Or is the backing taken over to here?

3. Should i back again here?

Sorry for probably stupid questions but i don't understand your comment, spoon, on skamps question
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Soap on 2014-04-14 20:13:51
Paypal and the credit card processor give us 60 days to refund, there is no cost to a refund.


I'm very glad to hear that, despite moving off of Kickstarter, a Kickstarter-style funding system is planned.  I believe it would be in your best interest to explicitly clarify that on the funding page as soon as possible.  No second chances at a first impression and all that.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-14 20:40:44
I believe that pledge page looks a little bit amateurish and needs to be improved


Sure, and not only that. If you are going to ask for 100.000 dollars, you need to have a much better presentation IMHO.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: larryfine on 2014-04-14 23:25:35
I find this quite funny, because I asked about this almost a year ago...! (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=94452)

well, nothing like a day after another  (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=94452&view=findpost&p=840656)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: randal1013 on 2014-04-15 00:05:42
I'm thrilled that windows phone is back as a goal! I will definitely pledge money now.



skamp and kwanbis have brought up a good point. to that end, I think it would be worthwhile for the dev team to mull over this post (http://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/22yzzy/100000_for_foobar2000_mobile_app_200k_stretch/cgsaoi5?context=3) from reddit:
Quote
Let's pick this apart from someone who as never heard of foobar!
  • Fundraising outside of a well known platform? That's a red flag right there for any consumers not already knowledgeble of the product.
  • The video thumbnail doesn't really tell me anything. I'll watch it later.
  • Tag line: "revolutionized PC audio players." So is this like WAMP? Do people even know what WAMP is anymore?
  • Foobar200 Team? But I don't even know what the product is!
  • OH! The "Team" section is actually their About section
  • "and is the most used audio player outside of iTunes." Oh, so it's like iTunes. I already use iTunes, why should I switch?
  • The rest just reads like the developers wrote about their product to themselves or people who already use Foobar. I still don't know why I should care as someone who as never used Foobar. I already have iTunes on my Mac, Windows, and iOS devices. Does this include cloud streaming functionality? What exactly do the iOS and Android versions do?
  • We FINALLY get to the interesting part: Cloud foobar2000. This page was definitely written by a developer. A marketing team would have put this at the top.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: mudlord on 2014-04-15 03:07:28
If I EVER donate to this, for whatever reason..........

I want some accountability, I want reports of where my money will be spent.

Expenses like iPads, iPhones and other things are fine.

I don't want it spent on pizza or porn. Or paytv bills.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Soap on 2014-04-15 05:55:49
Expenses like iPads, iPhones and other things are fine.

I don't want it spent on pizza or porn. Or paytv bills.


Do you ask the same of the people who grow your food?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: mudlord on 2014-04-15 07:53:31
How is asking for a report on where the money will go strange?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-15 08:00:46
I think the most pressing change that the foobar2000 mobile project needs right now for having promise of success is getting a spokesperson with enough available time for the community.

Such an ambitious project like this one requires a powerful representative in my opinion, a guy who is able to direct a discussion and to detect when he has to countersteer because the debate goes the wrong way. A person with the ability to communicate the idea of the project, to stir up enthusiasm and to keep it alive. And it is also one of that person's duties to actively clear up things - not only on HA! - as well as to keep in touch with (prospective) pledgers and to keep them up-to-date about the project's current status.

A project which shall be funded by pledgers is in the first place an advertising campaign: It needs to be actively promoted, it needs to be pushed and it needs to be brought to mind again and again. Doing this alone is a full-time job. And I am sure that spoon is pressed for time: he had to manage the campaign on kickstarter.com, he is the project's figurehead, he is the project's spokesman, he and kode54 and Peter are already programming for the various mobile platforms, spoon has also his own business and probably a private life. And who knows what else is processed in the background. That's too much for a single person.

I agree that the campaign's initial presentation and layout was improvable. But that isn't the biggest danger for the campaign's success from my point of view. The most serious threat for the project is in my eyes spoon's lack of time and his uncommunicativeness resulting from that running out of time. His mostly brief answers, partly in an abrupt style, often enough even simple yes/no-replies - this will not work (reminds me of audioSAFE). Such style let interest rather dying away than to stimulate it. And I am sure I don't need to mention that I would be very glad if the foobar2000 mobile project would succeed!

It is a serious matter if pledgers are worried about their money just due to the project's poor policy of disclosure. The project promises an extraordinary player with innovative new abilities. I am trying to motivate my friends to pledge. They ask me: What are these for abilities? I don't know.

This is just my very personal private opinion but I think spoon should either get more time on his hands for public relations or he should delegate this job to somebody else.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-15 08:13:33
I think the most pressing change that the foobar2000 mobile project needs right now for having promise of success is getting a spokesperson with enough available time for the community.

Such an ambitious project like this one requires a powerful representative in my opinion, a guy who is able to direct a discussion and to detect when he has to countersteer because the debate goes the wrong way. A person with the ability to communicate the idea of the project, to stir up enthusiasm and to keep it alive. And it is also one of that person's duties to actively clear up things - not only on HA! - as well as to keep in touch with (prospective) pledgers and to keep them up-to-date about the project's current status.


I hear Neil Young is available, and he's got prior experience!
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Brand on 2014-04-15 10:26:30
Some suggestions for the future, even if I repeat some of what's already been said:
1. Make a separate fundraiser for every platform, keep it simple and focused.
2. Windows Phone desperately needs a decent music app, more than iOS or Android. AFAIK there still isn't one that does gapless or FLAC playback. I suspect there are technical limitations for this, otherwise it would have been done by now... but it's worth looking into.
3. Desktop Linux and Mac users would probably be interested in Foobar as well (the same version that is on Windows now).
4. Keep it on Kickstarter or similar (Indiegogo?), which is more trustworthy.
5. Do a good presentation, focusing on the final product. I wouldn't bother with bundling hardware (other than maybe a Foobar t-shirt).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-15 14:47:32
One other thing to consider is the pledge amount. Even though 25 dollars might seem little, it is an amount you evaluate before spending.

How many people are in HA? 100.000? If 1/4 of them pledge 4 dollars, the minimum is covered, and 4 dollars is much simpler to ask for, and people would be less demanding if you as for 4 dollars.

How many users of fb2k are there? If upon opening it next time, you get an about mobile fb2k project, and ask for 4~5 dollars, and you tell this is a very special introductory price, and that upon release is going to cost 10, a lot of people would pledge.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Soap on 2014-04-15 16:05:52
How is asking for a report on where the money will go strange?


What's strange is asking it of who you acquire your software from but not who you acquire your food from.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: andrew_berge on 2014-04-15 16:17:25
Pledged, but i agree with many of the points made in this thread.
Should have stayed with Kickstarter.
$25 is quite a lot incredibly high for an app, are you planning on charging this much once it's released? Typically, you see Kickstarters offering prices lower than the final price.
If i hadn't been using Foobar2000 for years, i wouldn't have pledged. A pledge of anything less than $25 doesn't get you anything of value, why would you want to go on the forum if you're not going to get the app anyway?
The page needs to be restructured/rewritten and made a little less confusing/tailored to nerds like us.

That said, i'm happy to finally give something back for the wonderful software that is the PC version.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-15 16:27:07
Pledged, but i agree with many of the points made in this thread.
Should have stayed with Kickstarter.
$25 is quite a lot incredibly high for an app, are you planning on charging this much once it's released? Typically, you see Kickstarters offering prices lower than the final price.
If i hadn't been using Foobar2000 for years, i wouldn't have pledged. A pledge of anything less than $25 doesn't get you anything of value, why would you want to go on the forum if you're not going to get the app anyway?
The page needs to be restructured/rewritten and made a little less confusing/tailored to nerds like us.

That said, i'm happy to finally give something back for the wonderful software that is the PC version.
Totally agree with you andrew. On giving back to the wonderful sw that is the pc version, and the rest.

They need to think economic of scale. If done right and priced right, you can sell what, a million units? five million? At 4~5 dollars that is a lot.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Jan S. on 2014-04-15 16:36:37
How many people are in HA? 100.000? If 1/4 of them pledge 4 dollars, the minimum is covered, and 4 dollars is much simpler to ask for, and people would be less demanding if you as for 4 dollars.

100.000 ever registered on HA including bots. That is during more than a decade. It is difficult to assess now many are actively reading HA but it is far far fewer.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: eahm on 2014-04-15 17:08:28
Even though I have iOS and I want to pledge for iOS and Android I don't think an iOS version would be of much use for me. Apple doesn't allow to fully integrate anything 3rd party so, Android would be the exciting one IMO.

I am just giving something because I like foobar2000, Peter and the mentality he's keeping behind it. You can prostitute your sister become a meth addict (better?) with the money for what I care, go and have fun, you deserve it.

BTW, here they think you'll switch from Windows to Android: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2...0_is_headed_to/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2306pk/desktop_music_player_foobar2000_is_headed_to/)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: romor on 2014-04-15 17:11:41
Like roughly half of the posters (foobar2000 lovers) I think this look premature and it simply can't happen.
I want it happen (i.e. Windows phone), but paying some money I don't think will get me there.

IMHO, you guys should hire some professionals, as wherever smart you are, you can't do all by yourselves.
Presentation is surprisingly low, not mentioning confusion discussed.

Sorry to be generally negative, but I believe I'm right.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-15 18:30:15
BTW, here they think you'll switch from Windows to Android: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2...0_is_headed_to/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2...0_is_headed_to/)

I get on my system with two different web browsers security alerts (issues with server certificates) when trying to open that web page. Internet Explorer recommends even to not visit that site.

Appendix: it is the https-prefix that triggers that warning.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: RonaldDumsfeld on 2014-04-15 19:28:53
There must be at least 5,000 delighted users who have got a more than fair $25 worth of value out of foobar and prepared to do the decent thing?

Surely?

At this point in time I am as confused as everyone else about what they want to spend it on. That's up to them.

You just know they are going to come up with a bang on world class product. Even if it's for someone else.

These guys are engineers. Proper engineers. Not marketing wonks. I find that encouraging. 

I'm sick of all those slick campaigns where all the effort goes into the presentation rather than the product. Give them some money. Let them get on with what they are good at.

If anyone can do it. They can. If that's what they want to do it's good enough for me. Why not you?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-15 19:48:27
Appendix: it is the https-prefix that triggers that warning.

To protect against possible Heartbleed attacks Akamai updates their server certificates (https://blogs.akamai.com/2014/04/heartbleed-update-v3.html).

Maybe this is the background for the warnings.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-04-15 19:57:07
I'm sick of all those slick campaigns where all the effort goes into the presentation rather than the product.


The Pono fundraiser, for instance, is not one or the other. It's both. They spent a lot of time and money on both marketing (Neil Young collecting a ton of endorsements from fellow performing musicians) and engineering (getting a working prototype out before the fundraiser even began).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: godrick on 2014-04-15 20:18:01
A suggestion: per this article article (http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/15/5616756/gramofon-wi-fi-router-streaming-music-fon) perhaps look into integration or collaboration with recent initiatives that are essentially wifi audio streamers with mobile/cloud/PC integration:

gramaphon (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fon/gramofon-modern-cloud-jukebox?ref=live) and beep (https://www.thisisbeep.com/)

If viable, these seem like the first cheap, cross platform competitors to AE/Airplay in several respects.  However strong they may be in hardware, it's likely your audio-related software capabilities blow away theirs and would complement each other.

I have no professional interest in either linked effort.  I just want high quality, cheap and easy-to-use methods to listen to music throughout my home and on the go!
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: RonaldDumsfeld on 2014-04-15 20:18:35
Exactly!. And it's all bullshit.

There is no real advantage to hi-rez distribution., All DACs ought to sound the same. All that negative feedback twaddle. 40 years old master tape? Does need anything better than vinyl. So they are selling bling for nerds. Good luck to them. I prefer a good honest product at a fair price. Get a grip.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: klonuo on 2014-04-15 21:04:20
(http://i.imgur.com/POU8osG.png)


People, you do know that there are ready made templates (http://getbootstrap.com) that target consistency across various devices, including mobile phones?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Wakinyan on 2014-04-15 21:54:47
I'd contribute as tester or earlybird if there is an BBOS10 Version done...  For the moment I use Neutron as music player...
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: bwat47 on 2014-04-15 23:14:40
Like roughly half of the posters (foobar2000 lovers) I think this look premature and it simply can't happen.
I want it happen (i.e. Windows phone), but paying some money I don't think will get me there.

IMHO, you guys should hire some professionals, as wherever smart you are, you can't do all by yourselves.
Presentation is surprisingly low, not mentioning confusion discussed.

Sorry to be generally negative, but I believe I'm right.

I agree, I feel that this has been handled rather poorly so far. Their goals seemed quite vague and fluffy, and they keep changing their minds over and over. It looks like it wasn't thought out as well as it should have been. I love the foobar2000 desktop application, and I'd donate for development of that, but so far I haven't seen anything about the mobile project that gives me enough confidence for me to want to donate. Maybe if there was some sort of proof of concept, more details about how the mobile application will function and look etc... So far everything just seems incredibly vague...I'll keep an eye on the project, but in its current state I don't see anything that would convince me its worth donating to.

Cloud foobar2000 is the only thing that looked interesting to me, but again its pretty vague. I currently have my entire library on google music, and use the google music app when using my android devices. What incentive would there be for me to switch? it took forever for me to upload all my library to google music, so it would have to have some good incentives!
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: RonaldDumsfeld on 2014-04-15 23:21:24
If you think foobar was worth any money at all. Give it too them. Let them work out how to use it. They did ok so far? Right?

All this quibbling.  Makes you sound like cheapskates.

This is proper kickstarter. Money for guys you think are going to do something quality. Not underwriting millionaire bullshit merchants risk.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: andrew_berge on 2014-04-15 23:22:10
I'll keep an eye on the project, but in its current state I don't see anything that would convince me its worth donating to.


I do.

I love the foobar2000 desktop application
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Brand on 2014-04-15 23:44:25
If you want to support the current (desktop) Foobar you can also donate through Flattr. The option has been there on the Foobar homepage for a while.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kornchild2002 on 2014-04-15 23:57:50
Even though I have iOS and I want to pledge for iOS and Android I don't think an iOS version would be of much use for me. Apple doesn't allow to fully integrate anything 3rd party so, Android would be the exciting one IMO.


Not necessarily.  Although the app could never fully integrate with iOS on the same level as Android, it could still be very beneficial compared to the built-in Music app.  Developers have access to the full hardware of iOS devices and they can even tap into services such as AirPlay.  Syncing may not be as brain dead as plugging the iPhone into a computer and copying stuff over with iTunes.  However, other apps and music services have figured out ways around this.  The focus on cloud syncing with foobar would even further this cause, it's something that Apple started to implement with iTunes Match.  "Syncing" through iTunes could still be possible.  Granted, the foobar app couldn't have access to built-in storage on an OS level (like with Android) but I don't think that's reason enough to negate an OS ecosystem that represented 43.9% of all smartphones in the U.S. in December 2013 and represents the best selling smartphone from a single company.

Whether or not the developers behind foobar will tap into these extra resources, such as AirPlay, remains to be seen.  I'm also not sure how efficient the app will be in the end.  Currently the iPhone 5, 5S, and 5C are rated for 40 hours of music playback with the built-in Music app.  Aside from the added Apple features (hint: AirPlay), I wonder if the foobar app would maintain this level of efficiency when playing back content that isn't insane (i.e. 24-bit, 192KHz FLAC files).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: romor on 2014-04-16 00:15:42
Cloud foobar2000 is the only thing that looked interesting to me, but again its pretty vague. I currently have my entire library on google music, and use the google music app when using my android devices. What incentive would there be for me to switch? it took forever for me to upload all my library to google music, so it would have to have some good incentives!


From my presence here, I would assume that the team (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=89802) that tried to make something that also wasn't very clear in it's intention, and suddenly crippled away, could provide better product.

When I saw the news, I really thought it's some late April fools' post, but I guess I'm wrong, and maybe wrong again in my whole conclusion.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Wombat on 2014-04-16 02:03:47
Will the foobar sub-forum here move to the "professional" page/forum of foobar then?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: mudlord on 2014-04-16 03:09:30
How is asking for a report on where the money will go strange?


What's strange is asking it of who you acquire your software from but not who you acquire your food from.


Because I just think that way. If that makes me a fucking hypocrite, that makes me a fucking hypocrite.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: jkauff on 2014-04-16 04:37:05
I'll support this project because I want to see Peter make some money from his work, just as I've supported spoon for his work over the years. I've used fb2k from the beginning, and would have paid for it gladly. I pay for JRiver Media Center, but despite its excellent audio capabilities I still use fb2k for music.

However, this new product is not for me. I don't live on mobile devices. I can't imagine managing my music library anywhere but on my desktop machine. I have an iPhone 5S, but I've never bought music or movies from the iTunes Store. I already own a couple of very capable $5 apps that play my FLAC and AAC files (one of them plays my MKV movies, too; the other one has a very nice equalizer).

I can't imagine what a mobile version of fb2k would do for me that these inexpensive apps don't. For portable music, I use a Fiio X3 that includes a very nice DAC and amp with high-quality headphone and line-out jacks, which holds 64GB of standard and hi-res FLAC files. Unless I got a job where I was traveling a lot, I don't know what I'd do with a tablet, or even a Chromebook.

I hope you guys will be working with some very young, creative mobile-centric designers who will make a music player that is as unique in the new mobile world as fb2k was compared to contemporaries like WinAmp. Best of luck to you, but I'll be watching from the sidelines at my desktop.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kode54 on 2014-04-16 04:40:56
Appendix: it is the https-prefix that triggers that warning.

To protect against possible Heartbleed attacks Akamai updates their server certificates (https://blogs.akamai.com/2014/04/heartbleed-update-v3.html).

Maybe this is the background for the warnings.

Actually, I thought the correct way to get https on reddit was to use the "pay" subdomain, as the main domain redirects to random Akamai servers, and it looks as if Reddit's certificate is designed to verify that the IP address it is served from reverse resolves back to the same domain it is assigned to. Which Akamai's hosts do not.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-16 09:40:17
So with regard to certificates, Reddit and Akamai would have to coordinate their server configurations with each other (probably I didn't get it)?

No-one other than me complained, whereas I get that mismatch-warning (certificate's name ≠ server's name) each time for any https+reddit:
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-16 09:43:17
I came across this (http://www.intmag.de/2014/04/app-store-optimization/) article.

It is an interview in German with an entrepreneur who gives firms advice on mobile services, mobile gaming, entertainment etc.

He talks about the difficulties, today's app programmers are confronted with.

He mentions average costs for the development of applications for the iOS or Android store, how often an app must be downloaded to reach the break-even and what ASO means (App Store Optimization).

I do not understand every word, but my respect for the foobar2000 mobile project and its developers grows further; I become aware that I have a lot of aspects not taken into account till now when thinking about this topic.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-16 10:52:57
From my presence here, I would assume that the team (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=89802) that tried to make something that also wasn't very clear in it's intention, and suddenly crippled away, could provide better product.

When I saw the news, I really thought it's some late April fools' post, but I guess I'm wrong, and maybe wrong again in my whole conclusion.


It was a commercial decision to suspend Audiosafe, as it was not commercially viable to run. The system never left beta testing. It is our right to not release something which we think will not succeed over the long term. In business 4 in 5 companies fail, perhaps these 4 out of 5 fail because they pursue something unsustainable.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: smok3 on 2014-04-16 12:01:02
Response to the op;

Was there a long thread full of discussion on what mobile people would actually want somewhere?

(Social listening? Personally I really don't care what kind of "music" my friends are listening and if I want to listen to 'Pet shop boys' that day, i'd prefer to hide that from the world.)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-16 17:06:26
Response to the op;

Was there a long thread full of discussion on what mobile people would actually want somewhere?

(Social listening? Personally I really don't care what kind of "music" my friends are listening and if I want to listen to 'Pet shop boys' that day, i'd prefer to hide that from the world.)

That is also a good point. With so much love for fb2k, one would think that some discussion was opened previous to the campaign, but as far as i see, it does not exists.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-16 22:27:03
Response to the op;

Was there a long thread full of discussion on what mobile people would actually want somewhere?

(Social listening? Personally I really don't care what kind of "music" my friends are listening and if I want to listen to 'Pet shop boys' that day, i'd prefer to hide that from the world.)

After Peter's info that a foobar2000 mobile version is planned, after the kickstarter campaign's launch and after some guarded comments concerning this matter, I wondered for a while to what extent a discussion before would have changed the campaign's face. I came to the conclusion that probably the fb2k mobile web site would have been different, having a more convincing visual appearance, as well as the kickstarter web site. But apart from a few corrections there wouldn't have been revisions to the text, since its key statements would have remained the same:With regard to foobar2000 for mobile platforms: I think everyone applauds these goals, this project's part gets even support by users which either have no smartphone or which wouldn't find use for a fb2k mobile on it for other reasons (read for example what jkauff wrote (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=105304&view=findpost&p=863267)).

With respect to the cloud and social features: nobody would be forced to use these options. Actually, cloud services and social networks are dominated by American companies. Some people say these firms are the worst in terms of data protection. If so, could we have anything better than a counterpart to these rotten structures, led by Peter? I for one am utterly convinced by his trustworthiness.

Everyone has his own way of behaviour, Peter's style is doing things silently. I remember when foobar2000 v1.0 was released: There was no advance notice; there was no hint before, no discussion, nothing - foobar2000 1.0 was just out of the blue there. And it was magnificent (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=77681); and we were thrilled.

Finally I would like to mention that only a few members contribute regularly to discussions on HA. So these discussions cannot be understood as being a representative cross-section valid for the entire HA community, let alone for the foobar mobile fundraiser's real target group which isn't the HA community in the first place but every smartphone user worldwide. Doesn't our thread which discusses so lively a man's aberrations who is going to sell (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=104960) devices in posh toblerone design prove of how little relevance our even intense discussions on HA are in real life for success or flop?

IMHO a person as described by me above should still have top priority for the project.

Right now the fb2k mobile project has roughly 160 backers. It would be this person's solely job to multiply this number within the given time.

@ Neil Yohng, if you are reading this: Please PLEDGE (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kode54 on 2014-04-17 05:12:33
So with regard to certificates, Reddit and Akamai would have to coordinate their server configurations with each other (probably I didn't get it)?

No-one other than me complained, whereas I get that mismatch-warning (certificate's name ? server's name) each time for any https+reddit:
  • Warning (http://s10.postimg.org/s8clt1btl/Reddit1.png)
  • Security (http://s16.postimg.org/ny79nfs51/Reddit2.png)
  • Details (http://s23.postimg.org/i4ocfwovf/Reddit3.png)

I receive a similar warning, unless I use https://pay.reddit.com/ (https://pay.reddit.com/) for all https links.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Mach-X on 2014-04-18 04:12:48
I wonder about the usefulness of a portable foobar, not because I'm against the idea, but because the great functionality we enjoy in the windows version simply isn't possible with iOS or windows phone. In android, yes, but then most of what foobar does already exists in the android OS itself using free apps. Although Microsoft has promised great things with wp 8.1 so I guess we'll see.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-18 07:27:33
I receive a similar warning, unless I use https://pay.reddit.com/ (https://pay.reddit.com/) for all https links.

Thank you.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-18 17:31:45
One backer more and the first 5000 EURO will have been pledged. 

Please keep on supporting (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/) this project.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-04-18 20:03:42
@Mach-X

Why shouldn't it be possible in windows phone 8.1 or WinRT what could be done in android? Apart from that i think nobody expects the full capatibilities of the desktop version but a mobile app that offers high-quality playback (replaygain, gapless playback, Flac, etc.) and on the other side features that in turn doesn't make sense in desktop version.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Mach-X on 2014-04-18 21:19:23
Xbox Music is to Windows Phone/RT what iPod is to iOS. You don't get to mess with Windows Phone's internals like you do with Android.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: TomasPin on 2014-04-18 21:33:31
Been a while since my last post in these forums, but I had to come back to say how thrilled I am of this happening. Really want to contribute but for some dubious reason I can't link my debit card to PayPal ATM... Great project and great discussion here, will be following it closely.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nimos on 2014-04-18 21:35:44
Few limitations exist in windows phone that prevents regular hobby developers from creating good apps or even that scares developers who develop for other platforms.
File system limitations, file sharing limitations, multitasking limitations.
limiting third party apps from accessing media files that the inbuilt Xbox player is associated with.

Media files should be present in the isolated storage of the app for the app to have write access to the file. Like the ability to update tags of a media file.

Windows phone 8.1 has the ability to move apps and its associated data to be moved into SD card.
Need to investigate if apps can have update permissions to files already present in the SD card.

I hope you realise now why Windows phone users are more excited for a foobar port than android users.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: jkauff on 2014-04-19 03:29:32
OK, I put in $50 today.

Neil Young didn't get anything, BTW.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-20 05:20:25
Does anyone know what the new Pope preached in his first Easter mass?

EDIT: Solved, I found the answer (http://postimg.org/image/j8rz5jwgp/).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: JJZolx on 2014-04-20 05:26:23
Does anyone know what the new Pope preached in his first Easter mass?

Good thing, too. It's going to take some divine intervention to push this campaign anywhere near $100k.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-20 05:33:05
Actually, the project has 201 backers / 5,700 EURO.

50 days left.

I find this very encouraging.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: randal1013 on 2014-04-20 11:43:50
$100000 / 60 days = $1667/day on average

at 10 days into the campaign, the funds should be at $16667. they are currently at $8120, less than half of where they need to be.

I fear that $100k is too ambitious for the initial goal. perhaps 20k to 30k would have worked, with 100k being a stretch goal.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-04-20 12:13:22
$20K buys a professional developer for 4 months (contractors would charge much more)...$100K is just doable, implementing on 3 platforms, assuming a code share between the platforms.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-20 22:56:37
at 10 days into the campaign, the funds should be at $16667. they are currently at $8120, less than half of where they need to be.

I hope that the project funding revenue will grow exponentially for the foreseeable future.

Right now, many prospective supporters have gone on Easter vacation, but they will pledge after their return.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Porcus on 2014-04-21 16:05:12
Hmh ... Porcus Pessimisticus will be surprised and delighted if this should catch on and fill the developers' pockets. It looks like a stretch.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-22 05:21:22
fill the developers' pockets

Please bear in mind: the pockets would be emptied as soon as they have been filled because the pockets' owners would invest that money entirely in foobar2000 mobile. BTW, I am pretty sure that the project's preparation alone has cost the team a large amount of money.

Quote
Porcus Pessimisticus

Robertina Realisticus thinks: The whole project will be scuppered if it can't find more money - and it's solely up to us to decide.

We may probably agree: If we let the project fail, we never need to ask again for a foobar2000 mobile, because then we will already have decided against it once - in 2014.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-22 05:36:26
Some reading with regard to trustworthiness:Click here (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/) if you would like to support trustworthy developers, working on trustworthy projects.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-23 05:57:36
So nobody here has a contact on any of the major news sites so that this gets posted?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: bandpass on 2014-04-23 16:54:17
http://slashdot.org/submission (http://slashdot.org/submission)

They've run stories on VLC before (who also had a kickstarter), so maybe. I'm guessing someone would have to write a piece about fb2k generally, and include a bit about the fundraiser, rather than focus on the fundraiser specifically.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-04-24 04:25:24
http://slashdot.org/submission (http://slashdot.org/submission)

They've run stories on VLC before (who also had a kickstarter), so maybe. I'm guessing someone would have to write a piece about fb2k generally, and include a bit about the fundraiser, rather than focus on the fundraiser specifically.

I had submitted to various news sites, but I used the kickstarter link, and then it was canceled.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-04-24 07:13:46
I had submitted to various news sites, but I used the kickstarter link, and then it was canceled.

On Kickstarter.com spoon links to mobile.foobar2000.com but I think this is not as obvious as the boldface (http://s7.postimg.org/8ghz7p43f/fb2k_kickstarter.png) may let assume. I for one overlooked it and checked then the Kickstarter project's web site with the comments (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1977265610/foobar2000-mobile/comments). The latest entry there,

Quote
What happened?
Why is it cancelled? :/

would give the opportunity to inform Kickstarter visitors that they can pledge on http://mobile.foobar2000.com (http://mobile.foobar2000.com) and that all interested parties are invited cordially for a discussion on HA (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=105304).

Unfortunately, only Kickstarter backers can post there, this pushes me out of the running.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Porcus on 2014-04-24 08:08:37
I had submitted to various news sites, but I used the kickstarter link, and then it was canceled.


Yeah ... looks like people are making the wrong decisions already.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: DrGerm on 2014-05-02 15:48:21
I didn't know about the prior Kickstarter until just now.

I'd totally support getting a Foobar app on Android - I'm extremely unhappy with the options right now

couple "wants" on my list BTW:

1. Would like a 'real' app to control foobar on a dedicated machine on the network
2. Ability to push to DLNA sources

I want to take the time to say "THANKS" to the dude who makes Foobar. I've used it for years and I really appreciate this awesome product.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: markus.hauru on 2014-05-11 12:50:15
Make the end result free (open source) software and I'll back generously. Otherwise, not interested, sorry.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: randal1013 on 2014-05-11 13:38:31
unless you're going to pledge $50-60,000, there's no chance the main goal will reach funding anyway.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: eff_drm on 2014-05-11 18:51:58
I think a lot of opportunities have been missed so far. You guys need coverage on sites like:

- Gizmodo
- Engadget
- androidpolice.com
- Anandtech
- Macworld

It seems to me it's actually less likely to get attention on slashdot (or xda-developers, for that matter) due to being a for-pay, closed-source project.

Also, why haven't I read about the fundraiser on sites like head-fi.org? It fits PERFECTLY there. I'm not even mentioning the possibilities on FB, YT, and friends

Also, I think you need to give out the app for $4. Then get 25,000 people who want it.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Ferongr on 2014-05-13 19:33:26
I've read the description of the fundraiser and for some reason, the value proposition is very weak. My current Android player does gapless and replay-gain properly (EBU R128 on the roadmap) and is very customizable too, within the confines of a mobile app. I also raised an eyebrow at the bit-perfect claim. With all the black-box hardware and software the average Android phone has I find that claim hard to believe.

I don't think I'll contribute to the campaign at its current state.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: MordredKLB on 2014-05-17 02:30:17
$20K buys a professional developer for 4 months (contractors would charge much more)...$100K is just doable, implementing on 3 platforms, assuming a code share between the platforms.

I'm not sure where you live Spoon, but as a professional developer living in Texas (and one who doesn't even have the technical experience to write something like fb2k) I'd be incredibly insulted if someone offered me a $60k/yr salary. Contract work charges much more, but part of that is due to the temporary nature, tax implications, and lack of benefits. You guys are obviously offering a bargain, presuming this becomes an actual job and not just part time work on nights and weekends.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: eahm on 2014-06-02 04:29:04
You guys keep the money raised at the end right? I think it's the least you can do for the great apps we use every day.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Kohlrabi on 2014-06-02 08:52:35
You guys keep the money raised at the end right?

Actually, the average development costs are said to be ? $25,000 for an iOS app and ? $17,000 for an Android app = $42,000. The foobar2000 mobile project has got ? $30,000 so far. This means a financial loss of $12,000 for the programmers.
There is no "financial loss" at all. If the developers just keep the money, they made $30,000. I just hope those responsible will do the right thing and return the money to the backers. At least that's what I'd expect after an unsuccessful kickstarter campaign. Though, I do realize that this is no longer marketed as a kickstarter campaign, but a fundraiser. I wonder if everyone who backed got the memo.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-06-02 09:25:09
There is no "financial loss" at all. If the developers just keep the money, they made $30,000.

So developing of a program costs nothing?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-06-02 09:32:43
There is no "financial loss" at all. If the developers just keep the money, they made $30,000.

So developing of a program costs nothing?


They will do whatever they can afford. You can't call "+$30,000" on their bank account a "financial loss", at least not yet.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-06-02 09:45:13
You can't call "+$30,000" on their bank account a "financial loss"

I don't call this +$30,000 a financial loss. But I call it a financial loss, if you got $30,000 for something and your costs for that have been +$42,000.

Please note that I am speaking of costs, not of financial outlays.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: randal1013 on 2014-06-02 11:30:49
Quote
Where do contributions go? equipping developers with the necessary hardware required to develop on the respective platforms and paying the developers a living salary.

$20K buys a professional developer for 4 months (contractors would charge much more)...$100K is just doable, implementing on 3 platforms, assuming a code share between the platforms.


apparently they were planning on using that money to pay their rent while they work on the apps, so I think a $60k+ shortfall counts as a serious loss.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: eahm on 2014-06-02 13:51:13
You guys keep the money raised at the end right?

Actually, the average development costs are said to be ? $25,000 for an iOS app and ? $17,000 for an Android app = $42,000. The foobar2000 mobile project has got ? $30,000 so far. This means a financial loss of $12,000 for the programmers.

Of course real costs may differ from average ones, but they may also be above and the development costs for the Windows Phone app are not even taken into account in this example.

So, here again:

7 days left. Please let us start the final spurt now:

http://mobile.foobar2000.com/ (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/)

I know how much they cost, my second company makes iOS apps and I hire developers. That's not what I asked.

What losses are you talking about? If they don't reach $100.000 they will not start anything, it can't be worse than $0, anything between 0 and 99.999 is only earnings.

So, again, you guys keep the money raised at the end right? I think it's the least you can do for the great apps we use every day.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-06-02 14:01:43
What losses are you talking about? If they don't reach $100.000 they will not start anything

Really? Once again:

Quote
In case the lowest goal isn't met, we'll still try to deliver a product that satisfies all of those who did support us; just with fewer features than we were originally hoping to.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: eahm on 2014-06-02 14:05:45
Really? Once again:

Quote
In case the lowest goal isn't met, we'll still try to deliver a product that satisfies all of those who did support us; just with fewer features than we were originally hoping to.


Oh sorry I missed that, that actually answers my question too.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-06-02 14:26:21
Oh sorry I missed that

Yes, you missed that, indeed. And you are trying to make your error looking less fundamental by formulating in a cynic and derisive tone. Bravo!

Quote
that actually answers my question too.

Apart from that: spoon was on this forum today and he read this thread, but didn't reply.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: eahm on 2014-06-02 17:51:36
Robertina, there is too much stress around forums. I just wanted to make sure they are at least happy with what they raised until now. That's it.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Xenion on 2014-06-03 13:23:54
As an iOS user I already have a built in musicplayer that has a fantastic and simple UI and it integrates perfectly with my iphone compatible car stereo. What bothers me is the fact that i have to use iTunes for syncing. This is what most iOS users don't like about the built in music app. Having no FLAC support is not that much of a big deal since you can easily transcode to the open source codec ALAC. You don't say anything about the syncing mechanism with foobar2000 on iOS. Will you have to use iTunes? If not, how will it work then? Will syncing be only possible with the foobar2000 desktop app which is unfortunately windows only?
What about DLNA support? There's nothing like BubbleUPNP (Android) on iOS. Will foobar2000 mobile support DLNA?
Don't get me wrong but your asking for € 73000. Your fundraiser site is quite a bit loveless. I miss lots of information there.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: EpicForever on 2014-06-05 16:10:20
On foobar2000 subforum I saw so many posts like "will ever foobar2000 be released for iOS" "we will pay for this" etc. I looked on fundraiser page. There is definitely more Android Tester users who already paid for this app than those golden "I-will-pay-for-everything" iOS Tester users... Does iPhone/iPad/iAnyshit costs that much that you can't afford for just 37 EUR? Most probably I will never use foobar2000 mobile, especially on iOS devices but I backed this project anyway. I think that iOS Testers is far less than "I-will-pay-for-this" posts...
Sorry for bitching but I am really angry after looking on this...
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-06-08 09:49:30
The finish date has been extended by an additional 30 days, to give the project a chance.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-06-08 10:28:09
to give the project a chance


Do you have a new action plan?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Peter on 2014-06-08 10:29:56
Big thanks to everyone who contributed to the fundraiser until now.

The current status is:
We want to do this project. We really do. We had plans to add features that cost us to run - in particular ones that require significant server resources ( existing foobar2000 for Windows desktop does not really require such ). We'll have to cut on these to fit within the budget.

We're continuing to run the fundraiser for another month - hopefully the final product will be more like what we originally intended to deliver.

Thank you all for your attention and continued support.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: EpicForever on 2014-06-08 10:46:26
That's great, because in next month I will be able to donate again. You know - monthly planned budget  . I am only bit sad that I couldn't help in April :/ ...
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Ferongr on 2014-06-08 14:27:13
Quote
We had plans to add features that cost us to run - in particular ones that require significant server resources ( existing foobar2000 for Windows desktop does not really require such ). We'll have to cut on these to fit within the budget
.

If that means the cloud and social bullshit, then that's great . I wouldn't give the mobile a chance otherwise when it's released.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: q-stankovic on 2014-06-19 22:16:41
We want to do this project. We really do. We had plans to add features that cost us to run - in particular ones that require significant server resources ( existing foobar2000 for Windows desktop does not really require such ). We'll have to cut on these to fit within the budget.


Why don't you just tell what concrete features you've planned? Maybe these features could motivate some people more to spend their money. Also telling us the unique feature apart from replaygain and gapless playback (you have planned) that would distinguish foobar2k mobile from similar apps would not do any harm. As i told in the mobile forum: you just have to promote your upcoming product better!


Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Goratrix on 2014-06-20 09:03:38
I love foobar, and would really like to support it, but the words "social" and "cloud" make me wanna puke, sorry.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: ExUser on 2014-06-20 17:00:36
I, for one, have been so out of the Internet loop that I just found out about this while discussing foobar2000 with our new summer student a couple weeks ago. I can think of all the places where I spent money I could have spent on this fundraiser but that doesn't get me my cash back.

I'm glad for the extension. I have one more paycheck before it's over. With more notice, a Founder donation level would have been what I'd want, but I'll have to go with Prime Mover or Early Bird Android instead, I suppose. "Skin Designer" gives me the heebie-jeebies... That's what I went to foobar to get away from! Sadly, I fear it's inescapable with these newfangled jeejaws. Ah well. Early Bird Android finally gets me foobar2000 on Linux, so I am content, even if I haven't touched an audio player more complicated than sox-play in months (outside of work, anyhow).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: May2002 on 2014-06-22 18:43:08
Hi all,

do you know if there is any way to let them know that I DON'T NEED the earphones that go with my suscription?
At least I hope that they will have to pay only a small fraction of the public price....


Thank you!
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Kohlrabi on 2014-06-23 06:48:53
do you know if there is any way to let them know that I DON'T NEED the earphones that go with my suscription?
Just give them to someone close to your heart.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-06-24 09:42:02
Early Bird Android finally gets me foobar2000 on Linux


How do you figure? Just because Android runs on a Linux kernel, doesn't mean it will get you a fully working GTK3 or Qt player on Ubuntu or Arch Linux or whatever, and a *desktop* player at that (not touch based).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Ferongr on 2014-06-24 23:44:56
He said Linux, not GNU/Linux (sorry).

Anyway, skamp is correct, the point behind Foobar2000 is the customizable UI, and components. Android fb2k would contribute nothing towards a GNU/Linux fb2k port.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-07-05 13:51:19
The foobar mobile fundraiser has a sponsor, for every $ / £ / Euro raised Illustrate (dBpoweramp) will match the value raised and contribute to the development.

Actual full time development starts in around 2 weeks, the first goal should be reached hopefully at this time. The fundraiser will continue to run throughout development.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: skamp on 2014-07-05 15:17:19
Actual full time development starts in around 2 weeks, the first goal should be reached hopefully at this time.


You mean the first funding goal? I.e. the amount of money that's needed for full time development of the app?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: smack on 2014-07-05 17:34:59
So at will facebook reduce its members to the level of guinea pigs and affront the dignity of its members. facebook let you become the object of an experiment, without telling you.

No need to cry out now. It is normal and has always been like this.  see xkcd "Research Ethics" https://xkcd.com/1390/ (https://xkcd.com/1390/)

Sorry for being off topic.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Robertina on 2014-07-05 19:53:49
So at will facebook reduce its members to the level of guinea pigs and affront the dignity of its members. facebook let you become the object of an experiment, without telling you.

No need to cry out now. It is normal and has always been like this.  see xkcd "Research Ethics" https://xkcd.com/1390/ (https://xkcd.com/1390/)

If something is ethically wrong I don't care if this has 'always' been like that.

Also, I think it is always the right time to cry out/call out for justice, and to call a spade a spade..
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-07-05 21:28:18
Actual full time development starts in around 2 weeks, the first goal should be reached hopefully at this time.


You mean the first funding goal? I.e. the amount of money that's needed for full time development of the app?


Yes
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: EpicForever on 2014-07-06 09:37:55
The foobar mobile fundraiser has a sponsor, for every $ / £ / Euro raised Illustrate (dBpoweramp) will match the value raised and contribute to the development.

Actual full time development starts in around 2 weeks, the first goal should be reached hopefully at this time. The fundraiser will continue to run throughout development.


Good, then 3rd act of support will also come (in August)
You should add other types of backers like "chopped tester" or "chopped early bird" for those like me ;D
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: jkauff on 2014-07-06 22:47:54
The foobar mobile fundraiser has a sponsor, for every $ / £ / Euro raised Illustrate (dBpoweramp) will match the value raised and contribute to the development.

Actual full time development starts in around 2 weeks, the first goal should be reached hopefully at this time. The fundraiser will continue to run throughout development.

Way to go, spoon! Makes me proud to be a dBpoweramp supporter.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: JJZolx on 2014-07-07 01:57:19
The foobar mobile fundraiser has a sponsor, for every $ / £ / Euro raised Illustrate (dBpoweramp) will match the value raised and contribute to the development.


So, you're going to pay yourself? How does that work? It became apparent soon after this supposed crowd funding campaign began that something was going to be developed by someone. There were never any real monetary requirements. Take what you can get.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kode54 on 2014-07-07 07:05:53
He's not the developer. As far as I can tell, he's only organizing and now helping to fund this. Development is primarily Peter's job, but I've joined with the hope of being useful in mobile development, and I've already contributed some meager bits of API research, at least for Android. My wealth of component logic may come in handy eventually, if I can get a green light for any of it.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: ZhuGeLiang on 2014-07-07 18:30:30
The foobar mobile fundraiser has a sponsor, for every $ / £ / Euro raised Illustrate (dBpoweramp) will match the value raised and contribute to the development.


Just donated, thank you for matching!
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: ExUser on 2014-07-07 23:19:46
Just because Android runs on a Linux kernel


Android runs on a Linux


Soblem prolved. This is precisely what I meant. I was being obsequiously facetious.

All this ignores that I have and continue to run a full Debian stack on my Android phones: X11, web servers, they all work fine. Using scp to get/put files to my phone works faster than MTP/USB. Hell, I'll be performing a DJ set on it in a week. (Yes, I am using my cell phone as my primary audio output. Whatever.)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-07-07 23:31:51
So, you're going to pay yourself? How does that work? It became apparent soon after this supposed crowd funding campaign began that something was going to be developed by someone. There were never any real monetary requirements. Take what you can get.


No, any work I do on this project is without renumeration....

Any funds raised, go directly to the other developers to pay a living wage.

If it was a case of "Take what you can get", I would not sponsor from Illustrate (this gives me personally a negative balance sheet in relation to this project), however I believe in this project, I want to see it happen so the shortfall had to be made from somewhere.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: TomasPin on 2014-07-08 01:32:47
If it was a case of "Take what you can get", I would not sponsor from Illustrate (this gives me personally a negative balance sheet in relation to this project), however I believe in this project, I want to see it happen so the shortfall had to be made from somewhere.

Well, in that case let me be the first to say THANK YOU.

(I'm sure I'm not the first, but it feels nice to put it that way )
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: copperblue on 2014-07-09 06:48:41
Will AudioSAFE be handling the cloud backup?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-07-09 09:11:07
AudioSAFE comes back online this month, it has been redesigned (internally) and will allow future expansion.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Hamallainen on 2014-07-09 14:57:28
Is it still going on ? Can i still contribute ?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: EpicForever on 2014-07-09 16:44:44
Yes and you should do this !
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Hamallainen on 2014-07-10 00:04:05
Ok thanks.

One question before i do it.
I have 3 different email addresses. One for hydrogenaudio forums, another one for my paypal account and another one for my android account. Will it work ?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: andrew_berge on 2014-07-10 03:31:27
If it was a case of "Take what you can get", I would not sponsor from Illustrate (this gives me personally a negative balance sheet in relation to this project), however I believe in this project, I want to see it happen so the shortfall had to be made from somewhere.

A heartfelt 'Thank you' to you
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-07-10 08:32:47
Ok thanks.

One question before i do it.
I have 3 different email addresses. One for hydrogenaudio forums, another one for my paypal account and another one for my android account. Will it work ?


Any email address is fine.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Hamallainen on 2014-07-10 11:18:26
Any email address is fine.
Ok, let's go then. Thank you.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: ExUser on 2014-07-23 18:09:59
I've just become the 6th Prime Mover. Wish I could have gone higher; I'm still coping with the aftermath of our house fire this February.

If you've ever wanted the chance to really appreciate Peter for what he's done with foobar2000, let me encourage you to contribute. Over the course of this project, I've seen PayPal shut down donations, Flattr fall flat on its face, and the rise and fall of Google advertisements. There's no really good way to monetize something like this.

Now is the time. Now is your best chance to make a difference, or at bare minimum the best chance I've seen personally. You've got spoon matching your cash, you can get early alpha version swag, great headphones for cheap, immortalization in the list of credits, and more!

DO IT
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kwanbis on 2014-07-27 20:54:39
I've just become the 6th Prime Mover. Wish I could have gone higher; I'm still coping with the aftermath of our house fire this February.

If you've ever wanted the chance to really appreciate Peter for what he's done with foobar2000, let me encourage you to contribute. Over the course of this project, I've seen PayPal shut down donations, Flattr fall flat on its face, and the rise and fall of Google advertisements. There's no really good way to monetize something like this.

Now is the time. Now is your best chance to make a difference, or at bare minimum the best chance I've seen personally. You've got spoon matching your cash, you can get early alpha version swag, great headphones for cheap, immortalization in the list of credits, and more!

DO IT

100% agreed.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-08-05 09:57:07
Some good news, firstly the funding is within ~ 5% of the goal now, the project (player) can go ahead as we first envisaged.

2nd - full time development work has started, there are 3 people working on this.

3rd - we have the first 'Phone Design Functionality Proposal 1' on the mobile foobar forum for discussion.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nimos on 2014-08-05 19:50:57
Some good news, firstly the funding is within ~ 5% of the goal now ...


Really great news. Good to see this campaign succeed.

Quote
2nd - full time development work has started ...


I have a doubt here. How will the alpha or beta versions be provided to the users?
We, Windows phone users can't install anything that's not in the store.
Side-loading apps on the Windows phone requires developer account and tools that most won't have.

Quote
3rd - we have the first 'Phone Design Functionality Proposal 1' on the mobile foobar forum for discussion.

Won't there be any more updates on this thread?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: soiaf on 2014-08-05 21:01:51
I have a doubt here. How will the alpha or beta versions be provided to the users?
We, Windows phone users can't install anything that's not in the store.
Side-loading apps on the Windows phone requires developer account and tools that most won't have.


It is possible to upload apps to the Windows Phone store that are viewable/installable only by designated users (based on their email address/login).
So based on that it should be possible to give specific users (donors) access to early versions of the app.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nimos on 2014-08-10 20:51:02
It looks like the Main goal is reached :-)

Quote
1128
Backers

$100310 ++
Pledged ($100000 main goal)


And special thanks to Spoon.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-08-10 23:34:52
Indeed it is, a special thanks to all the backers, you have made this project possible.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nick.C on 2014-08-11 09:51:18
Indeed it is, a special thanks to all the backers, you have made this project possible.


Well pleased - looking forward to the Android version! 
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nimos on 2014-08-11 19:31:30
But as I see in the mobile foobar page, it states that the iOS, Android and Windows funding goal are not reached.

Oh, those are IMAGEs and they need to be updated.
By the way waiting for the Windows Phone version.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-08-11 21:32:05
http://mobile.foobar2000.com/ (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/)

Says Reached for the 3 platforms, perhaps do a page refresh, your browser might have the old images.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: User 2014 on 2014-08-12 14:33:16
eager to know release date of ios version.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-08-12 15:03:41
It is difficult to say at this point, when a final release would be.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: SokilOff on 2014-08-12 15:42:27
And special thanks to Spoon.

Indeed.
Seems like without dBpoweramp's "doubling" this project would have very slim chances to reach needed sum.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nimos on 2014-08-15 08:04:54
I would rather say that without the doubling it would have taken longer time to succeed.
I see that the funds are still coming, so contributors are not just aiming at the initial goal.

But certainly doubling gave the confidence to contributors that this project would succeed.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: jarsonic on 2014-08-29 15:01:14
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-09-11 14:38:42
Last chance to join the alpha testers

The foobar2000 mobile project is gearing up for the release of the first alpha versions, at the end of September the early bird items will be removed, alpha testing will begin and the earphone rewards will ship.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: isamu on 2014-10-27 11:02:22
Hi guys. How are things going with Foobar2k mobile? Any significant progress? When is the beta expected to drop?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2014-10-27 11:52:14
iOS alpha this week, we have emailed all alpha backers requesting address (ios, android and windows phone) and UDID (for ios).
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: adrift on 2014-10-27 16:31:53
iOS alpha this week, we have emailed all alpha backers requesting address (ios, android and windows phone) and UDID (for ios).


I just found out about this today, and am thrilled to see it. Pledging now!
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: merlin2015 on 2015-01-16 16:47:37
No updates for a long time from the devs or the alpha testers. What's happening guys? How're the apps shaping up? Can we at least see some screenshots of the current builds?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Case on 2015-01-16 21:39:26
You don't follow the mobile forum (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/forum/)? There was just today a new alpha version out for iOS.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: merlin2015 on 2015-01-17 17:12:33
You don't follow the mobile forum (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/forum/)? There was just today a new alpha version out for iOS.

Thanks, but no screenshots there either? How about some so us non-iOS users can also see what's cooking?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: User 2014 on 2015-02-20 00:59:37
V1 a16: foo is not in the list of open in apps.
Plz contact ifile dev.
Thx.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: dsvick on 2015-03-22 21:43:13
Have there been any updates on the mobile apps? The last post on the mobile forum was last year and I can't register there to ask anything so I figured I'd post here. I'd love to have Foobar on my phone so I could use the same player on both my laptop and phone. Assuming I'll be ale to move settings, ratings, and playlists back and forth easily.

Thanks

Dave
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2015-03-23 09:26:15
The android alpha is released quite soon.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: viktor on 2015-05-11 22:19:57
Sooo... first iOS alpha was released in October, first Android alpha came in March. That's 5 months instead of the estimated 2. I guess it's pretty safe to say we can't expect a WP alpha in May either (March + 2 months)... sounds like a public, final version will take at least another year
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: randal1013 on 2015-05-11 23:43:00
^at this point, they might as well wait for windows 10 and make a universal app.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: ChronoSphere on 2015-05-12 00:24:04
^ you don't have to wait for win10 for that. Universal app is the way to go, as it gives you more platform coverage.
Who knows, maybe the win32 app will soon be replaced by a metro one *flees, evading stones*
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Zarggg on 2015-05-12 00:45:59
Personally, I'd rather Microsoft abandon the whole "app" thing and go back to the native executables we're used to.  Doesn't seem to be the way things are going, though.

Even so, FB2k still works wonderfully in Win10 in its current state. I used it as the "jukebox" at a party I hosted recently from Win10 and even piped Shpeck/Milkdrop out to my TV via HDMI. No snags whatsoever.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nimos on 2015-05-12 05:52:01
Yes with Windows 10, Microsoft has announced few tools that enable porting apps from Ios and android to windows.
We can make use of that so as to reduce the windows phone app development time.
Also with Windows 10 more core API are shared between PC and phone versions.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: viktor on 2015-05-12 22:08:51
Guys, you forget the fact that running iOS apps on WP is more like a plan B for the lazy, with a sub-par experience. It's particularly troublesome for a music app that needs to run properly in the background and with low latency and which also needs decent performance when we're talking about thousands of tracks (which is the case for me, at least). The iOS emu is more like a "hotfix" to the app-gap. Decent read on the topic:

iOS and Android app-porting to Windows will have limitations (http://www.neowin.net/news/ios-and-android-app-porting-to-windows-will-have-limitations)

Also, I'm pretty sure those who donated their money for the promised WP version were expecting a native, full-fledged app, not an emulated, half-assed port, but that's another story.

OTOH, IMO it's quite an obvious choice to make it a universal Windows app while you're at it. There's just no reason not to do so. 10% more work (for the big screen UI) -> hundreds of millions more potential users.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: jkauff on 2015-05-13 13:29:27
I've lost my URL to the private forum on mobile.foobar2000.com. Could someone provide the link for me? Thanks.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2015-05-13 14:20:45
http://mobile.foobar2000.com/forum/ (http://mobile.foobar2000.com/forum/)
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nimos on 2015-05-13 17:29:49
IMO there won't be emulation for Ios or android apps. The apps will be completely native but few features in other OS don't have their equal counterpart in WP so those features will be missed or they wont work at all.
The good thing to see here is that most of the compute intensive code would already be in native code and can be reused with relatively less effort and the performance won't take a hit.

By the way I read somewhere that the VLC team faced many challenges developing WP app. But that's with Windows phone 8 though.

Edit: I should point out that I have absolutely zero experience developing mobile app for any of the platforms. I think something that would benefit from the new tools provided by Microsoft would be the UI code since each platform have their own way of UI code and developers usually use the same UI layout for all platform for consistency and maintainability.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2015-08-15 13:13:44
General update, work is progressing at a steady rate, advanced searching is about to go live to the alpha versions, Windows Phone first alpha test is not far off also (at this point there will be alpha versions on iOS, Android and Windows Phone, universal applications are included also). Skinning is a month or two off being implemented.

Once skinning is implemented beta versions can be released.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: funkyblue on 2015-08-15 13:25:09
Looking forward to Android and Universal App. Foobar2000 on Raspberry will be great
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: mire777 on 2015-09-17 10:20:17
I can't wait to see foobar on my phone, when this will be released? Can someone post images?
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2015-09-17 14:59:14
Release date is likely Q2 2016, give or take.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: viktor on 2015-10-25 15:11:30
Sweeet, can't wait to have this on my WP10 device once released
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: RonaldDumsfeld on 2015-10-25 18:42:07
Quote
can't wait


I felt like that.

Two years ago.

Now it's too late.

Thanks for trying.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: EpicForever on 2015-10-25 18:49:19
You mean to late because Windows Phone is dying slowly? It's Windows 10 developers fault
Poor app store, missing HCE functionality, poorly documented API...

Current Android version of foobar is nice. It doesn't require restarting of phone to see files in library - contrary to built in "Music" app that came with my Sony phone...
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Alexander Ostuni on 2015-10-25 19:12:50
Current Android version of foobar is nice. It doesn't require restarting of phone to see files in library - contrary to built in &quot;Music&quot; app that came with my Sony phone...<br />

...none of my Android players require that.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: darkbyte on 2015-10-26 15:38:58
Is it still possible to join and get foobar2000 alpha on my Android phone somehow?
Sorry if this was already answered, long thread and haven't found the answer on the project page.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: spoon on 2015-10-26 20:33:37
It is not currently possible atm, sorry.
Title: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Peter on 2015-11-02 10:12:54
Forum downtime notice

foobar2000 mobile forums are currently offline, as a preventive measure against vBulletin zeroday exploit.

Multiple large forums - including vbulletin.com itself - have been hacked and defaced; their entire databases including user credentials have been reportedly leaked.

Right now we have no reason to believe that our forum has been compromised:
The compromised forums run the latest 5.x while we run 4.2.3.
No suspicious activity has been detected so far.
However we're taking it offline until a patch is available, or until we can confirm that the version we run is not vulnerable.

This does not affect foobar2000 mobile development in any way; the downloads are still functional.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: ExUser on 2016-01-27 18:08:07
(https://i.imgur.com/zEkM8PI.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/vwMin.gif)
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: copperblue on 2016-01-27 18:11:50
Jolly good show!

When will the great unwashed be able to purchase this off Google market?
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: itisljar on 2016-01-27 18:43:34
(https://i.imgur.com/vwMin.gif)

No, it's not. No foobar here in store.
Where is it? :)
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nick.C on 2016-01-27 20:43:29
Not for me either.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kode54 on 2016-01-28 01:42:33
It's in the store for beta testers whose Google accounts have been added.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: funkyblue on 2016-01-28 02:15:46
Trying to work out where I paid. I know I did and it's not on my kickstarter account. Any ideas?
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kode54 on 2016-01-28 07:30:03
You need to PM your Google account email address to Peter, likely on the backer forum.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: funkyblue on 2016-01-28 07:37:11
I found my email, as I paid to Illustrate direct. I think I paid for the final version. The page does not have all the info on what pledges went where. :)
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: marc2003 on 2016-01-28 10:15:07
Jolly good show!

When will the great unwashed be able to purchase this off Google market?

I'd like to know this as well. Since my Sansa Clip+ died recently and new Sansa players don't support rockbox, I'm considering some sort of android device for music playback.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: punkrockdude on 2016-01-28 16:39:32
Is this opening up for a chance to maybe get Foobar2000 on Linux in the future?
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nick.C on 2016-01-28 22:22:33
It's in the store for beta testers whose Google accounts have been added.
That explains it - I'm not a beta tester. :)
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: funkyblue on 2016-01-29 00:00:29
How much longer is it going to be? It's been like 1.5 years since the campain was funded...
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Xenion on 2016-01-29 23:47:12
Wow, 1.5yrs in the making with paid developers. I guess this will reinvent the audio player on mobile devices.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: viktor on 2016-03-27 02:51:30
Wow, 1.5yrs in the making with paid developers. I guess this will reinvent the audio player on mobile devices.

It must be somewhere else than WP. As per the screenshots provided in the Store (I still can't buy it, of course), it looks even worse than Groove Music, and that's quite an accomplishment.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: funkyblue on 2016-03-27 05:31:21
Can anyone give an update on what the delay is?
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kode54 on 2016-03-27 06:28:56
One developer, working on three different mobile platforms for the first time, having to resort to searching on Google for solutions to problems that apparently everyone has and nobody has solutions for? That tends to create delays.

I think only the existing commercial developers have solutions to some of the problems, and they're probably not going to collaborate with a competing developer to help them introduce their competition to market more quickly.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Seren on 2016-03-28 18:53:53
Almost $200,000 backed and only 1 developer? What am I missing?
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Peter on 2016-03-29 10:38:38
Well, I'm sorry to disappoint some of you guys.

We tried to hire more developers but nobody with both foobar2000 and mobile platform experience was willing to cooperate at the time.

Currently we have two developers, Spoon wrote media library & browsing implementation as well as the skinning engine; I'm dealing with the rest.

There's one major problem with this project, it is called "Windows Phone".
If I had any idea how much crap this platform was, I'd have dropped it and refunded all backers, to move on with the other ports. You'd think someone with as much Windows experience as myself would find it easy to start developing for another Microsoft platform, right? RIGHT? WRONG.

Windows Phone is eating all the development time and the app is still bugged, and many of the issues are impossible to debug properly due to idiotic design of the system as well as bugs in the toolchain. For an example, just today I found out that builds downloaded from Windows Phone Store are totally broken on my Lumia 520, but the same code uploaded through Visual Studio works fine.... so I can't possibly debug this.


At least Android and iOS situation is well under control. I'm looking forward to making foobar2000 for these platforms available to general public this summer.
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: funkyblue on 2016-03-29 11:13:25
No disappointment at all. You are working your guts guts out and it's greatly appreciated!

Looking forward too it when it happens. Just take it easy :)
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Nick.C on 2016-03-29 15:23:34
At least Android and iOS situation is well under control. I'm looking forward to making foobar2000 for these platforms available to general public this summer.

Yay!
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: Seren on 2016-03-29 17:18:19
Windows Phone is eating all the development time and the app is still bugged
...
At least Android and iOS situation is well under control. I'm looking forward to making foobar2000 for these platforms available to general public this summer.

Well that does make sense, many devs have abandoned WP development or just completely ignored it like it doesn't exist.
I wonder how much harder would it be to put WP dev on pause, finish up Android and iOS then come back and finish by porting the code over (maybe by then WP will be in a better shape?)?
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: marc2003 on 2016-03-29 19:27:38
At least Android and iOS situation is well under control. I'm looking forward to making foobar2000 for these platforms available to general public this summer.

Yay!

I echo this sentiment. I actually got my first android device today and Gonemad looks capable for my needs but there is no doubt I'll be all over foobar2000 like a rash when it gets released to us plebs,
Title: Re: foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
Post by: kode54 on 2016-03-30 02:57:59
Sorry I was misinforming people about the developer situation, but I was under the mistaken assumption that Spoon was not actively working anything, and that his part had been completed so far. I know he was originally supposed to be handling that Windows Phone nightmare. I don't think anyone can make heads nor tails of that crapfest.

Funny thing, a Windows (desktop) tablet was the only thing I managed to get a USB OTG cable to connect to an external DAC with. For the best with that tablet, too, since its built in DAC is noisy as hell. Wait, I also got iPhone to work, but its DAC is sufficient enough to stand on its own. Android, I guess someone needs to talk to the developers of various proprietary players, to see if they used libusb or whatever to talk to the DACs directly, since I couldn't get that to work.
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