I keep all my music on remote machine which exports folder structure over samba (SMB). The major problem with is that foobar is unable to monitor these folders correctly and never updates collection if I add any new songs. I'd like to ask for option to manually trigger collection updates as foobar used to offer couple of versions ago. As of now I need to delete the whole collection and add it back which, politely speaking, sucks as hell as indexing thousands of files from scratch over the network (even 1Gb) takes too much time.
As a workaround you can drag folder with your music to temporary playlist.
BTW, which version of foobar2000 do you use? Under Windows or WINE?
As a workaround you can drag folder with your music to temporary playlist.
BTW, which version of foobar2000 do you use? Under Windows or WINE?
foobar 0.9.6.3, under Windows. Samba server runs linux but it really does
not matter. Thanks for the workaround - I will give it a spin next time, still
a dedicated button is what I really miss, as I often add many folders
in various subfolders so dragging to temp playlist is would take me time.
I have the same setup and the same problem with the new foobar. I also remember having problems when you move or delete songs (on the server). And if you add these songs again after moving them around, there will be duplicates in the library. Remove Dead Items will not work and you'll have to rescan everything. For these reasons I'm still using version 0.9.5.1 under Windows...
My media files are located on Linux box, in directory shared via Samba. On Windows box this share is given its drive letter and added to Foobar's Media Library. If share goes offline and online again while Foobar is running, Media Library starts to rescan everything on it!
Steps to reproduce (checked with 0.9.6.5 beta 2):
- Run foobar2000, make sure that at least one samba share from another computer is added to Media Library and let it finish scanning for media files located there.
- Shutdown the connection between computers (pull the network plug, reboot the other computer, etc.)
- Bring the connection up again while foobar2000 is still running, and notice that after a while it starts to rescan every file on reconnected share (in my case I can see console filled with "location not parsable" warnings coming from every cover art jpeg on the share).
- Optionally you can quit foobar2000 at this moment and run it again to notice that after restart it no longer thinks that such a rescan is necessary.
It is also rarely possible to cleanly close foobar while the rescan is running. Most of the times interface freezes after clicking "
- " and all you can do is to kill foobar to stop this insane rescan...
This is a problem for me also, would be keen to hear what can be done about it.
Yes, some official info about this issue would be appreciated. Will this be considered as a bug, will there be a fix, when can such fix be expected eventually, etc.
Thank you.
The problem persists and seems to remain unnoticed or ignored by developers. Sad but true.
This time after the usual "unnecessary rescan / hang while trying to close / kill process" trio my database vanished and I have to rescan everything. I suppose this COULD happen due to abnormal termination, but why it hangs anyways? And why those rescans?
Clobbering a process is never healthy. Do you kill -9 processes on your precious Linux as well?
In any way, I cannot seem reproduce your issue with my trusty Windows Server 2008 share here. Try mounting a share from a Windows server and see if it still happens. If not, the fault most probably lies with your samba implementation.
In any way, I cannot seem reproduce your issue with my trusty Windows Server 2008 share here. Try mounting a share from a Windows server and see if it still happens. If not, the fault most probably lies with your samba implementation.
Yes, I suppose you're right. I've no other Windows box around to check if anything like that happens but then I never told that it does (and I have no reasons to distrust you ). It may be some samba quirk, but linux based NASes aren't that uncommon and foobar (or foobar's media library to be precise) is the first application I've ever seen that have problems with samba.
Also - samba problems aside - it's really bad that foobar hangs if you try to quit while scan is running. This IS foobar's bug.
What version of Samba are you running?
What version of Samba are you running?
net-fs/samba-3.0.33 USE="cups pam python readline -acl -ads -async -automount -caps -debug -doc -examples -fam -ipv6 -ldap -oav -quotas (-selinux) -swat -syslog -winbind"
Foobar version 0.9.6.7
When upgrading from 0.9.5.x to 0.9.6.x, I noticed the "Rescan library" option gone. Release notes say library is auto-managed, but I've had problems with this. I'm not sure if the problems are due to how I use foobar, but here I go:
Background:
My media library is located on a network file server (Linux running Samba). Reason: I want music library accessibly by multiple computers running different operating systems. This scenario also provides cases where the media library may be modified outside of foobar2000; for example, I frequently do basic file operations directly from my linux account. Or, I may purchase a tune from itunes (on a separate computer) and then manually copy the file from where itunes downloads the file on the network file server so I can access it via foobar2000 (or linux-based media players). I also have two WinXP systems that run foobar2000, both referencing the same network file share for my music library (one is a desktop the other a laptop).
Problems encountered:
(1) Library does not detect when files are added or removed by external processes. For example, if I delete files under linux, foobar2000 does not automatically see the changes (even after waiting some time figuring monitoring may have a time delay). I use the Edit menu's "Remove Dead Items", which appears to work, but only temporarily. If I go and use the Library menu Album List capability to change what is displayed in the Library Viewer Selection tab, the "dead items" show up again. It seems that "Remove Dead Items" should permanently remove items no longer present, but it does not.
(2) Trying to call "File Operations|Delete File..." on an item where the underlying file is already removed (see problem [1]), foobar2000 generates an error message, but still keeps the "dead" item in the Library.
(3) Adding new media files from an external process are not seen by foobar2000 (automatically).
I do not know the specifics of how foobar2000 "monitors" the library, but it appears to either be incomplete or limited, especially if library contents are modified by external processes. In past versions, I used "Rescan library" feature, but it is now gone. If the "Removed Dead Items" function removed things permanently, that would solve the external deletion problem, but does not address if additions (or modifications) are made to the library by external processes.
Currently, to force a "rescan", I goto "Media Library" preferences, remove my network path folder from "Music Folders" and then add it back in.
A "rescan" function would be more user friendly (for my usage scenario), especially if the rescan can be done on select sub-folders of the media library for cases when a complete rescan is overkill.
threads merged
Earl: So what version of Samba are you running?
Earl: So what version of Samba are you running?
Samba 3.0.28.
This is the version provided for CentOS 4 (which is just a repackaging of RHEL 4).
BTW, I do not know if this matters since I'm not familiar with foobar2000 internals, but I access the network drive directly vs mounting it to a drive letter. For example, \\host\user\music
I do not know the specifics of how foobar2000 "monitors" the library, but it appears to either be incomplete or limited, especially if library contents are modified by external processes.
The truth is that everything works properly on shares provided by Windows systems and the limitation is on the Samba/Linux side. I'm aware that this is not helpful in any way, and there are even some workarounds in fb2k directory watching code for these cases, I'm just reiterating this in case your issue won't get resolved - it's not foobar2000's bug, which just tries to use a handy feature of the platform.
the limitation is on the Samba/Linux side. I'm aware that this is not helpful in any way, and there are even some workarounds in fb2k directory watching code for these cases, I'm just reiterating this in case your issue won't get resolved - it's not foobar2000's bug, which just tries to use a handy feature of the platform.
Understood.
At a minimum, fb2k should be smart enough to permanently remove items from the library if "File Operations|Delete File" fails due to file not existing, or at least provide the option to permanently remove the item(s) if underlying files are non-existent.
And, the "Edit|Remove Dead Items" should be permanent instead of just for the current view. If an item is "dead" why maintain its record in the media library?
Well everything under Edit menu pertains to active playlist only. There used to be "Remove dead items" and "Rescan" commands under Library menu too - which did what you suggest - but it was removed when automatic folder watching was introduced. I agree it might be a good choice to allow using them manually again for these scenarios, although I'm not sure if there aren't other things depending on folder watching (I can imagine e.g. why would one dispatch a delete notification when you'll get one automatically from the filesystem a split second later anyway?).
(the end of the topic's title is "requires a foobar restart" - too bad long titles are truncated)
Hello,
When adding new tracks to my library folders (File Operations > Move to...), foobar library isn't updated : the added tracks do not appear as part of foobar library, so the autoplaylists are not updated, etc.
It takes a foobar restart to make new tracks appear. This behaviour is easily reproductible for me, it just happens all the time. Once foobar is restarted, new tracks appear within 1-2 seconds.
My config :
- foobar 0.9.6.8 with DUI and some usual components
- Unix network file server (Debian, ext3 file system)
- Windows XP SP3 with SMB access to the server
I am willing to perform further testing if needed / helpful. Thanks in advance.
PS : this didn't happen with my previous version (0.9.5.5) : the added tracks used to appear immediately as part of the library, which is I believe the intended behaviour.
Thanks to both of you, but as you will notice I was already aware of that topic, since I had even posted on it (Apr 29 2009, 10:38).
Unfortunately there wasn't any reply to my post for about a month, so I had stopped watching that topic (a month without any reply is too much time IMO). I thought it was dead and buried.
Now I have seen the latest answers. So it's not foobar's fault, it's Samba/Linux fault. Well, great news. These are my observations then :
1. This topic could be merged with the old, reactivated "Problem with Media Library and Samba share, rescans everything when share is reconnected after network failure" topic.
2. Like Yirkha said in the other topic, "There used to be "Remove dead items" and "Rescan" commands under Library menu too - which did what you suggest - but it was removed when automatic folder watching was introduced. I agree it might be a good choice to allow using them manually again for these scenarios, although I'm not sure if there aren't other things depending on folder watching".
I mean, I'm glad it's not foobar's fault, but we need to remain pragmatic. It would be great if Windows / Samba were 100% bug-free, but (a) it's a utopy, and (b) we won't get Microsoft to work on those issues, unfortunately. So even if it's not the "right way" to do it from the developer's point of view (which I understand perfectly), I guess we need to find a viable workaround for this, be it what Yirkha suggested or anything else.
Because, well, it would be a very sad thing to be forced to say "don't store your precious audio data into Linux servers, because there are Samba problems, and store it in Windows servers instead so that foobar can access it correctly".
Yirkha, more seriously, is this issue being thought about on the developer side, so that a solution can be found soon for all hybrid Linux/Windows users out there ?
And are there other workarounds I could try eventually ?
Thank you.
[Merged upon thread starter's request]
foorious: What version of Samba are you running?
Half the problem here is that people are using a technology (Linux) that they are unfamiliar/uncomfortable with and therefore unable to update.
Should Samba be updated to include implementations for the necessary folder watching functions, most people will never be able to take advantage of those updates without purchasing new hardware (that has the new version of Samba preloaded), anyways.
Providing workarounds for bugs in inferior products like Samba has rarely ever been a concern in foobar2000 development. foobar2000 is a Windows application, tested on Windows platforms. The same perspective is seen in relation to Wine. If the Samba guys are interested in fixing their bugs, foobar2000 provides several breakages for them to play with. This is not foobar2000's problem. If you want this problem fixed, switch to properly tested software and ditch Samba.
Thanks shakey, one thread is better than two. I'll have a look at my Samba version. I can run updates on my home-made Debian server, no problem... provided they are available of course.
BTW, I sometimes get a slightly different behaviour from foobar. Sometimes when adding a new album, only the FIVE first tracks of the albums are added to the library. Not 4, not 6, just 5, regardless of the total number of added tracks. This has happened several times, the number being always 5.
So we have behaviour 1 = we add an album but 0 tracks are added to the library, and behaviour 2 = we add an album but only the first 5 tracks are added to the library.
I don't know if this can help, but it's a funny random behaviour anyway.
@Canar : Like I said I understand your way of seeing things, although I don't agree with it entirely : you would be right only in a perfect world, but our world is far from perfect and everything doesn't work like we'd like to. That's the difference between idealism (pursuing some kind of unreachable perfection) and pragmatism (doing our best with the tools that we get at a given time, instead of simply asking for better tools). One funny example : if you needed to go to the pharmacy store because your mom is sick, but your car is broken, would you decide to go by foot anyway, or would you wait for the car to be fixed in order to do things 'properly' ? That's just my opinion, but everyone is entitled to make his own mind so I won't comment further on this.
If the Samba guys are interested in fixing their bugs, foobar2000 provides several breakages for them to play with.
Have Samba developers been notified about all those problems? Foobar seems to be pushing the envelope in using various filesystem related features in Windows and may indeed be interesting for Samba guys. Simple search for "foobar2000" in Samba's bugzilla (https://bugzilla.samba.org/) yields nothing...
Of course I could file bug report about unspecified "samba issues when using foobar2000", but developers seem to have some insight about nature of said bugs (e.g. workarounds used in foobar's code) and their report would be a lot more useful.
I have just upgraded Samba on the Debian side : from 3.0.4 to 3.3.4 (April 29, 2009).
FYI there is also a 3.4.0 pre2 version, but as you may figure it's still in early beta stage.
I'll report any improvements on my next addition to my foobar library.
You're completely welcome to go and do it if you want these bugs fixed. None of the developers care enough about Samba to spend their time on this. There are plenty of records of things not working here on the forums, so go right ahead and link them to various threads.
When I was looking at this, the problem seemed to be generally with Linux kernel, particularly its filesystem change notification API inotify.
On Windows, since some old NT version, you can ask to be notified of any changes in a directory, or whole directory sub-tree. foobar2000 uses the latter feature to a great extent, because a Media Library directory naturally needs to be watched including all its subdirectories.
inotify works only per-inode basis, which means only for one directory. Leaving all subdirectories opened to watch them would create big overhead and at least wine developers (http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20080720.182124.3af6bf3f.pt-BR.html) didn't want to go that way. I don't know about Samba, but I guess the emulation works also only partially, because of the performance reasons.
@Canar : do you really have to behave in such a prepotent (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prepotent) way ? I don't think it's necessary here, plus it's totally useless.
Besides, what do you have against Samba ? For me things are very simple :
- If you know a better way to communicate between a Windows machine and a Linux machine, you are more than welcome to share it.
- If not, you are more than welcome to develop it.
- And if you're not up to the challenge, then it looks a bit "easy" for me to say that Samba doesn't even deserve the attention of any of the developers here, just as if it was a "lesser thing".
May I remind you that Samba is open source / free software ? So everybody here, including you Canar, is welcome to help it become better.
More info is available at http://www.samba.org (http://www.samba.org)
@Yirkha : if you say "for performance reasons", that would mean it's not a bug but an intended behaviour. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in that case we couldn't put the blame on Samba/Linux anymore, could we ?
If inotify works only per-inode basis for performance reasons, then maybe (I say maybe) foobar should take that into consideration in order to preserve some compatibility.
Anyway, I'm willing to spend some time on this issue, but I NEED TO KNOW if the problem comes from Samba, from Linux, or from somewhere else. I'm not an expert, I just want to sort this out. Thanks to those who are willing to help in a constructive way.
Here is some tech-info about inotify :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify) (Yirkha, are you sure you are not talking about dnotify instead of inotify ?)
http://inotify-tools.sourceforge.net/ (http://inotify-tools.sourceforge.net/)
if you say "for performance reasons", that would mean it's not a bug but an intended behaviour. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in that case we couldn't put the blame on Samba/Linux anymore, could we ?
Windows platform - whole sub-tree folder watching works.
Linux platform - whole sub-tree folder watching does not work, therefore it's a lesser thing, "why?" is irrelevant.
As you said, everyone is free to contribute to make the emulation better.
Don't expect that from people who don't care, those who are affected by it should take that challenge you speak of.
Yirkha, in the link I provided in my previous post ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify) ) it is said that "Inotify has many advantages over dnotify, the module that it replaced. With the older module, a program had to use one file descriptor for each directory that it was monitoring. This can become a bottleneck since the limit of file descriptors per process could be reached. The use of file descriptors along with dnotify also proved to be a problem when using removable media. Devices could not be unmounted since file descriptors kept the resource busy".
Wouldn't that mean that inotify doesn't work on a per-directory basis, but rather on a sub-branch basis ?
I just had a quick look at samba code and ReadChangeDirectoryW() is somewhat supported through inotify, but it does not seem to register
recursively the watched directory for changes (I could be wrong here), which is against the ReadChangeDirectoryW() api spec.
For it to notify something at all, samba must be compiled with inotify support (should be the case in all binary package) and smb.conf must not contain 'kernel change notify = no'
OT: Contrary to popular belief, wine *do* watches recursively a directory in its ReadChangeDirectoryW implementation, but this implementation is semi-broken (or half-working if you prefer):
- move and rename change notifications are not done at all
- It doesn't do multiple change notifications returned in a single call to ReadChangeDirectoryW () or GetOverlappedResult().
I've actually done a patch that fixes both issues. I may resubmit that pacth to wine, but I have little hope it will be accepted (as it is more than a trivial 10 lines fix).
I've got a quick reply from John McCutchan, Inotify's main creator !
"Hi,
Yes, that is correct. Inotify does not support recursive directory monitoring. You must write this manually, the algorithm is trivial. Having many Inotify watches is okay.
John"
I hope this can be useful...
That's what wine do. Now you need to convince samba developpers to do the same .
Moderation: Removed useless full quote of the preceding post.
...or, since Samba is open-source, any willing developer could go and do it (create a "foobar-compliant" version of Samba). Could you do that bubbleguuum ?
I guess that's one avantage of open-source : you don't necessarily have to "convince" any developer to get what you want / need, if you can do it yourself of course.
foorious, if you're willing to pay me to spend my time on something I consider completely extraneous (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extraneous) I might consider doing it. Until then, I'll recommend you use Windows File Sharing, which is what defines the standard.
I'm not sure precisely what part of my previous post you find so prepotent. Apparently, stating the obvious is considered prepotent by you.
Like I said, I won't comment further on that matter.
Canar, since our "Problem with Media Library and Samba share" is of no interest to you, I hope you'll agree that we keep on discussing it without you, so you can spend your precious time on things that look more important to you.
Sorry for the OT and thank you for your help anyway.
@Everyone else : it looks like we're moving towards the solution, which is a good thing. Now we know where the "problem" resides and how to solve it.
"Inotify has many advantages over dnotify, the module that it replaced. (...)".
Wouldn't that mean that inotify doesn't work on a per-directory basis, but rather on a sub-branch basis ?
dnotify works with file descriptors ("opened files"), inotify works with inodes ("files at the filesystem level").
I thought having a few thousands of inodes watched would be a performance hit anyway, however if the developer doesn't think so, I'm happy to be wrong.
@Everyone else : it looks like we're moving towards the solution, which is a good thing. Now we know where the "problem" resides and how to solve it.
Now we know exactly as much as we did a year ago when 0.9.6 was being developed. Let's celebrate...
You are right Yirkha : let's celebrate. I have some good news to report, but they need to be confirmed.
My Samba upgrade on the Linux site seems to have improved, and maybe even corrected the problem !!
For the moment I have added two whole albums [EDIT - four whole albums !] to my library (File ops > Move). Both albums were added to the library almost in real time, with no missing tracks. All relevant autoplaylists were also updated. No need to restart foobar anymore. It just seems to work !
Here's what I have done since yesterday :
- Updated Samba to 3.3.4 ( http://news.samba.org/releases/3.3.4 (http://news.samba.org/releases/3.3.4) ),
- Deleted all monitored folders within foobar 0.9.6.8 prefs,
- Added all monitored folders again, so they could be rescanned properly with the new Samba version.
Voilà.
Of course these preliminary results don't mean nothing, and they NEED to be confirmed. So all other Linux users out there, please upgrade Samba to 3.3.4 and report results. Thank you.
Maybe it's not so surprising considering inotify support has been apparently added in samba 3.0.25 (http://www.samba.org/samba/history/samba-3.0.25.html) and you've been using version 3.0.4
It was a type error : my previous version was 3.0.24. But you are right, it's still inferior to 25.
So all other Linux users out there, please upgrade Samba to 3.3.4 and report results. Thank you.
Good luck with this. See my above post.
So the problem with recursive directory watching is virtually nonexistent (any reasonably fresh release of Samba with inotify support enabled implements it good enough to work with foobar's media library).
Still it does not solve my original problem (rescan after reconnect).
What exactly tells foobar that all directories in reconnected share are "new"? And why they are not "new" anymore after foobar restart?
I've got this same problem too and am still seeing it with 9.6.7 - is this even an acknowledged bug?
*more samba threads merged*
Unkosibomvu: See Post #39 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=70606&view=findpost&p=641889)
I guess that's one avantage of open-source : you don't necessarily have to "convince" any developer to get what you want / need, if you can do it yourself of course.
True, true. You want/need this feature, you can do it, provided you can do it yourself, of course.
I don't think I need this feature, so... I don't have to concern myself with Samba code, open-source or not.
i'm running a debian fileserver with samba shares and have windows vista clients. these clients mount the share as a network drive. i never had any problem with foobar monitoring. it notices any changes within seconds and my library is rather large.
// i have not read the whole thread but i can provide my config files if the problem still exists and no solution has been found so far
Xenion, the solution for foobar monitoring and Samba has already been found : Samba version needs to be superior or equal to 3.0.25.
Only Messer's "rescan after reconnect" problem doesn't have a solution so far.
My first post here, let me just say thanks to all the foobar2000 core and component devs for an excellent piece of software.
I also have the Samba monitoring issue, and I've read this thread along with anything I've been able to find on Google.
These are my specs:
Server - Debian Lenny, Samba version 3.2.5 - updated every morning using apt-get
Client - Windows XP sp3, all current updates
foobar2000:
Core (2009-08-22 06:25:22) foobar2000 core 0.9.6.9
foo_abx.dll (2009-06-07 08:25:26) ABX Comparator 1.3.4
foo_albumlist.dll (2009-08-22 06:23:44) Album List 4.3.1
foo_audioscrobbler.dll (2009-08-20 22:15:56) Audioscrobbler 1.4.2
foo_cdda.dll (2009-08-22 06:23:34)CD Audio Decoder 2.1.4
foo_converter.dll (2009-08-22 06:23:26) Converter 1.2.1
foo_dsp_std.dll (2009-08-22 06:23:48) Standard DSP Array 1.0
foo_fileops.dll (2009-08-22 06:22:36) File Operations 2.1.2
foo_freedb2.dll (2009-08-22 06:22:52) freedb Tagger 0.6.1
foo_input_std.dll (2009-08-22 06:23:28) Standard Input Array 1.0
foo_rgscan.dll (2009-08-22 06:23:20) ReplayGain Scanner 2.0.9
foo_ui_std.dll (2009-08-22 06:23:54) Default User Interface 0.9.5
foo_unpack.dll (2009-08-22 06:22:20)RAR reader 1.2 ZIP/GZIP reader 1.0
The samba share is mounted as a drive letter, the M: drive is a 300gb IDE drive on my server dedicated solely to music.
Ever since foobar2000 changed to this new monitoring scheme, any changes on the server are not reflected in the library. The only way to get the library changes to take effect are a) restart samba, b) restart foobar2000.
Honestly, for me, it's not a such a big issue but I signed up and posted just to say that this issue still persists and I'm willing to try out anything that is suggested, other than move my music collection from the safety of an ext3 journaling file system.
Thanks.